Indian Army Artillery

[Prashant12]

Defenders Of India : Story Of India's Deadly Artillery

 

[bengalraider]

Gentlemen the ATAGS has been cleared for production , a deal for 114 guns to be manufactured by Tata & Bharat Forge in equal no's for a total of 350$mil will be signed later this year/early 2018.
The good times have begun to roll.
Induction of 5 new regiments of guns yearly from 2020 confirmed.
2 regiments ATAGS, 1 of Dhanush, 1 of M777 & 1 of K9.

http://www.defensenews.com/articles/in-policy-reversal-private-companies-to-build-indian-howitzer

 

[sthf]

5 regiments a year is way too low when nearly 200 are to be replaced.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

2001-2002, Indian efforts to design upgrade M46, But has issues in design specially metallurgy.

2005-2008, This design came out with new muzzle breaker, But it too has issues same as earlier one.

2009, This design came out with help of soltam, It works fine but has issues with elevation.

Latter this year, OFB announced to upgrade rest of the M46 with its older design, But the change is that it utalised 80% of already proven dhanush.

Besides, Dhanush, ATAGS and M777, You have M46 getting upgrade to 155mm of 45cal ..

 

[bengalraider]

5 regiments a year is way too low when nearly 200 are to be replaced.

Initially only 36 regiments being replaced ( D-30 + S-123) , this entails a run of 7 yrs

 

[Hari Sud]

Bharat Forge is capable of making more than a dozen artillery pieces a year as they have imported lock stock and barrel the RUAG operation from Europe. It is fully operational now.

I believe TATA will do the same, but do not know how the work is being shared between TATS and BHARAT.

Hence many more artillery regiments can be equipped in a year.

 

[SilentKiller]

not sure on figures people are sharing..
last i heard was that Dhanush gun initial requirement was to be 114 guns and in time will move to 414 guns.
also ATAGS was to have 1800+ replacement program..
may be MoD is placing smaller orders for time being.
also 100 K9 are too low. porkis have 290+ SPG (tracked)..

 

[bengalraider]

not sure on figures people are sharing..
last i heard was that Dhanush gun initial requirement was to be 114 guns and in time will move to 414 guns.
also ATAGS was to have 1800+ replacement program..
may be MoD is placing smaller orders for time being.
also 100 K9 are too low. porkis have 290+ SPG (tracked)..

order are in Tranches, the orders for 114 Dhanush & 114 ATAGS are for the initial tranche , each order will equip 6 regiments .
1 regiment of ATAGS and 1 of Dhanush will go to the Arty training school in Deolali.
We will finally operate some 500 SPG, wait & watch
The clincher will be the 814 mounted gun order, these along with the 22 regiments of PINAKA committed will be the core of our fast moving mobile artillery.

 

[sthf]

@bengalraider 21 regiments (of 21units each) of Pinaka mk1 have been ordered or about to be ordered.

Real game changer, so to speak would be mk2 and Pinaka 2.

 

[sbm]

Kunal, interesting saga on the updates. According to the MoD - 9 regiments of upgraded M-46 are in service. Who upgunned these?

 

[Scrutator]

21 regiments (of 21units each) of Pinaka mk1 have been ordered or about to be ordered.
.

I've read few other 'commentators' elsewhere state that; but why order 21 regiments of Mk1 (when mk2 and guided mk2 are available)????

Btw...only 2 additional regiments are actually 'ordered'; another 10 (not sure if its mk1 or mk2) are cleared by CCS, but not yet ordered. The remaining 10 regiments would definitely NOT be mk1.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Its done by a collaboration between Soltam and OFB, In future its just OFB with DRDO ..

Kunal, interesting saga on the updates. According to the MoD - 9 regiments of upgraded M-46 are in service. Who upgunned these?

 

[woaa]

That's good to hear. If I understand correctly.

 

[sthf]

I've read few other 'commentators' elsewhere state that; but why order 21 regiments of Mk1 (when mk2 and guided mk2 are available)????

Btw...only 2 additional regiments are actually 'ordered'; another 10 (not sure if its mk1 or mk2) are cleared by CCS, but not yet ordered. The remaining 10 regiments would definitely NOT be mk1.

Cost could be one of the reasons for ordering more mk1. BM-21 Grad regiments are being replaced by Mk1.

 

[Scrutator]

Cost could be one of the reasons for ordering more mk1. BM-21 Grad regiments are being replaced by Mk1.

I could understand that the guidance kit might be expensive, but the unguided Mk2 still has about 50% higher range (with an improved propellant). It wouldn't make much sense to mass produce the smaller ranged rockets - just like they wouldn't mass produce the Dhanush 45 caliber guns (when 52 caliber guns of Dhanush and ATAGS varieties are so close on the heels)!

 

[sbm]

Its done by a collaboration between Soltam and OFB, In future its just OFB with DRDO ..

Thanks but there were some reports that the Soltam upgrade was terminated at 2 regiments so how did the others happen? It is amazing that there is so much confusion on something so simple.

 

[sthf]

I could understand that the guidance kit might be expensive, but the unguided Mk2 still has about 50% higher range (with an improved propellant). It wouldn't make much sense to mass produce the smaller ranged rockets - just like they wouldn't mass produce the Dhanush 45 caliber guns (when 52 caliber guns of Dhanush and ATAGS varieties are so close on the heels)!

Dhanush are replacing older FH77Bs hence the order of 414 units.

Similarly, Mk1 are replacing older Grads. Range is optimal for its role.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

First Ever? India Gives Major Military Contract to Domestic Private Companies
The Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (ATAGS), India’s first indigenous 155mm/52-caliber towed artillery gun, will be a joint project of two private-sector corporations. This is a reversal of the usual practice of giving only state-owned companies these kinds of pricey orders.

State-owned Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) will be developing ATAGS with two private-sector firms, Tata Power SED and the Kalyani Group. Valued at $4.5 billion, the production order could be be a potential windfall for India’s private defense groups, as New Delhi’s army seeks to fill its requirement of over 1,500 towed guns.

Retired Indian Army major general and defense analyst Bhupinder Yadav told Defense News that "Two ATAGS prototypes have already been made and are under trials. MoD has already projected immediate requirement of 114 guns. The production can start within two years of order placement. With two partners having [their] own production line, [they] can meet the requirement faster."

An unnamed Indian Army official said that a prototype, with a range of 28 miles, will also undergo trials, testing its abilities in different climates and terrain, along with range accuracy.

The official said, "For serial production to be established, it would take at least upwards of one and [a] half years…In all, ATAGS will take at least four years for induction into artillery," adding that the gun system would be more cost effective than similar systems purchased from foreign weapons suppliers.

DNA Info quoted Praveen Kumar Mehta, director general of DRDO’s Armaments and Combat Engineering Systems, praising the development, saying, "We take pride to do things in the country and even if it's not at par with the international standards, we still strive to make it the best. Hence, this gun is a very good example of how the DRDO and the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), along with the industry, can come out with a system within the country and compete with the best in the world. In fact, we look forward to the export of such systems in the time to come."

ATAGS was designed to supplement Dhanush, the 155 millimeter/45 caliber artillery gun that was an indigenously-built improvement on the Swedish-manufactured FH-77B 155 mm/39 caliber towed howitzer.

New Delhi acquired 144 of the howitzers from BAE Systems (formerly Bofors) between 1987-1991. "The task of development and manufacturing of [the] gun system was allotted to Kalyani Group, based on their know-how, competence, experience and infrastructure. Bharat Forge (a company of Kalyani Group) has taken up the role of co-developer, providing diverse inputs in design, manufacture and development," said Rajinder Bhatia, head of the Kalyani Group's Defence and Aerospace division.

He added that the group,"has also established India's first private facility to manufacture ordnance including gun barrel, gun superstructure and ammunition transfer system, auxiliary propulsion system including undercarriage, and gun display units for artillery guns."

 

[Scrutator]

Dhanush are replacing older FH77Bs hence the order of 414 units.

Similarly, Mk1 are replacing older Grads. Range is optimal for its role.

A replacement doesn't have to match all the characteristics of its predecessor, it can be far superior to the other! IA definitely wants ALL guns to be 155/52 (barring the M777, which has a different mission); Dhanush 155/45 is just a stop gap arrangement because the 155/52 guns (both Dhanush and ATAGS) are not fully ready.

There's no logical reason I can think of for orders to be placed (beyond the current 2 regiments that are under production) for Pinaka Mk1. Mk2 should be the way to go. Longer range is better than shorter range.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

OFB had its own upgrade plans, They kept trying without outside help from start ..

Thanks but there were some reports that the Soltam upgrade was terminated at 2 regiments so how did the others happen? It is amazing that there is so much confusion on something so simple.