Indian Army Armored Vehicles

ezsasa

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Okabe Rintarou

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What about that old 1300 mahindra ALSV oder? Aren't they in the same category?
No. LSV and PMP (Mahindra ALSV and TATA IPMV) are for company sized QRFs of Light Infantry. LAMV is for R&S Battalions of Mechanized Infantry. But it could happen that Mahindra ALSV or its derivative would win the new LAMV requirement of DGMF. So its not certain that this is for TATA LAMV alone.

X-posting

This is interesting. It says for the "Mechanized Corps and Armoured Corps". So its not related to the recently ordered Mahindra ALSV and TATA IPMV, both were intended to go to units along LAC as "Infantry Protected Mobility Platforms". These were meant to form company-sized QRF with 10 each of Mahindra ALSV and TATA IPMV in formations in Ladakh.


But this is different since its not going to the Infantry. And its not the TATA Merlin LSV, but rather the older TATA LAMV which is being ordered? Does that mean these are being ordered for the Recce and Support Battalions of the Mechanized Infantry? Don't remember for sure but I think there were 6-8 R&S battalions. Out of them, some were to be equipped with the NAMICA and NAG (whatever happened to that?) and the rest were meant to be equipped with TATA Kestrel and 4X4 jeeps. The 4X4 seems to be what this TATA LAMV order is for. But 800 TATA LAMV looks a bit too much for just a few R&S Battalions. Also, what about the ATGM these are supposed to be fitted with? Is that not mentioned in the RFI? Does anyone have access to the RFI?





Link to the RFI courtesy @ezsasa : https://www.mod.gov.in/sites/default/files/rfi.pdf
Looks like it is indeed meant for the R&S Battalions, but even so, there is not a single word about it being used as an ATGM platform. Instead, they are looking at something a LOT more interesting. I am so excited about this. There are two types:-

Type 1
  • STANAG level 1
  • Mast mounted BFSR-SR or HHTI (3m tall mast, 50 kg load limit)
  • MMG (7.62mm) mounted on cupola (no RCWS, Elevation/Depression: +45/-5 degrees) with 1500 rounds
  • Will carry one Carl Gustaf RCL (6 rounds) and three rifles for dismounts
  • Crew: 4 in crew compartment
  • Independent Suspension on all 4 wheels
  • CITS, runflats
  • 0-60 kmph in <12 seconds
  • P/W ratio: >25 kW/ton
  • Payload: 1.5 tons
Type 2
  • STANAG level 2
  • RCWS with HMG (12.7mm) capable of AA role (Elevation/Depression: +60/-5 degrees) with 1500 rounds
  • Three drones (details below)
    • Integrated Surveillance and Targeting System:
      • Combo of 1X recon drone and 1X loitering munition
      • Recon drone:-
        • 1.5 hour endurance
        • 15 km range
      • Loitering munition
        • 1 hour endurance
        • 15 km range
    • Continuous Unmanned Tied System:
      • 1X Surveillance drone
      • 1X Portable Ground Control Station
      • Tethered Mode of operation:-
        • 12 hours endurance
        • 100 m hover height above portable ground control station
      • Untethered Recon Mode of operation:-
        • 1 hour endurance
        • 5 km range
  • 4X 81mm Smoke Grenade Launchers (Anti-Thermal) (20 second screen per 'nade)
  • Speaker and Display unit for drone feed, navigation, radio comms. and IFF compatible
  • Additional detachable Remote Vehicle Terminal for drone feed and control
  • Four rifles for dismounts
  • Crew: 2 in crew compartment 2 in cargo compartment
  • Independent Suspension on all 4 wheels
  • CITS, runflats
  • P/W ratio: >25 kW/ton
  • 0-60 kmph in <12 seconds
  • Payload: 2 tons
Also, this is not meant for TATA LAMV per se. Looks like Light Strike Vehicle (LSV) or Protected Mobility Platform (PMP) is the nomenclature used by Infantry and Light Armoured Multiurpose Vehicle is the nomenclature used by Mechanized Infantry and DGMF. So quite possible Mahindra ALSV will also participate in this, as will Kalyani.


Screenshot_20220702_010803.png


Screenshot_20220702_010853.png
 
Last edited:

NotASussyBoi

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that order already given last year. don't remember when the delivery was supposed to start.
LAMV is 2 tonne payload, ALSV is 1 tonne payload.

i believed it was supposed to star delivery last year but well covid,original was supposed to be maybe 110 alsv per year
 

abingdonboy

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No. LSV and PMP (Mahindra ALSV and TATA IPMV) are for company sized QRFs of Light Infantry. LAMV is for R&S Battalions of Mechanized Infantry. But it could happen that Mahindra ALSV or its derivative would win the new LAMV requirement of DGMF. So its not certain that this is for TATA LAMV alone.

X-posting

This is interesting. It says for the "Mechanized Corps and Armoured Corps". So its not related to the recently ordered Mahindra ALSV and TATA IPMV, both were intended to go to units along LAC as "Infantry Protected Mobility Platforms". These were meant to form company-sized QRF with 10 each of Mahindra ALSV and TATA IPMV in formations in Ladakh.


But this is different since its not going to the Infantry. And its not the TATA Merlin LSV, but rather the older TATA LAMV which is being ordered? Does that mean these are being ordered for the Recce and Support Battalions of the Mechanized Infantry? Don't remember for sure but I think there were 6-8 R&S battalions. Out of them, some were to be equipped with the NAMICA and NAG (whatever happened to that?) and the rest were meant to be equipped with TATA Kestrel and 4X4 jeeps. The 4X4 seems to be what this TATA LAMV order is for. But 800 TATA LAMV looks a bit too much for just a few R&S Battalions. Also, what about the ATGM these are supposed to be fitted with? Is that not mentioned in the RFI? Does anyone have access to the RFI?





Link to the RFI courtesy @ezsasa : https://www.mod.gov.in/sites/default/files/rfi.pdf
Looks like it is indeed meant for the R&S Battalions, but even so, there is not a single word about it being used as an ATGM platform. Instead, they are looking at something a LOT more interesting. I am so excited about this. There are two types:-

Type 1
  • STANAG level 1
  • Mast mounted BFSR-SR or HHTI (3m tall mast, 50 kg load limit)
  • MMG (7.62mm) mounted on cupola (no RCWS, Elevation/Depression: +45/-5 degrees) with 1500 rounds
  • Will carry one Carl Gustaf RCL (6 rounds) and three rifles for dismounts
  • Crew: 4 in crew compartment
  • Independent Suspension on all 4 wheels
  • CITS, runflats
  • 0-60 kmph in <12 seconds
  • P/W ratio: >25 kW/ton
  • Payload: 1.5 tons
Type 2
  • STANAG level 2
  • RCWS with HMG (12.7mm) capable of AA role (Elevation/Depression: +60/-5 degrees) with 1500 rounds
  • Three drones (details below)
    • Integrated Surveillance and Targeting System:
      • Combo of 1X recon drone and 1X loitering munition
      • Recon drone:-
        • 1.5 hour endurance
        • 15 km range
      • Loitering munition
        • 1 hour endurance
        • 15 km range
    • Continuous Unmanned Tied System:
      • 1X Surveillance drone
      • 1X Portable Ground Control Station
      • Tethered Mode of operation:-
        • 12 hours endurance
        • 100 m hover height above portable ground control station
      • Untethered Recon Mode of operation:-
        • 1 hour endurance
        • 5 km range
  • 4X 81mm Smoke Grenade Launchers (Anti-Thermal) (20 second screen per 'nade)
  • Speaker and Display unit for drone feed, navigation, radio comms. and IFF compatible
  • Additional detachable Remote Vehicle Terminal for drone feed and control
  • Four rifles for dismounts
  • Crew: 2 in crew compartment 2 in cargo compartment
  • Independent Suspension on all 4 wheels
  • CITS, runflats
  • P/W ratio: >25 kW/ton
  • 0-60 kmph in <12 seconds
  • Payload: 2 tons
Also, this is not meant for TATA LAMV per se. Looks like Light Strike Vehicle (LSV) or Protected Mobility Platform (PMP) is the nomenclature used by Infantry and Light Armoured Multiurpose Vehicle is the nomenclature used by Mechanized Infantry and DGMF. So quite possible Mahindra ALSV will also participate in this, as will Kalyani.


View attachment 162321

View attachment 162322
Yeah Mahindra and Tata both have larger vehicles for this role so there’s a chance for the TATA LABV finally which was showcased I think 8 or so years ago at defexpo?

What I’m wondering is if the TATA LSV/Merlin has any chance to get orders anywhere, it’s one of my favourite Indian vehicles in recent years and is a ground up design, Mahindra basically took the IP of one of their subsidiaries for the ASLV so it’s not 100% IDDM in the full sense of the term. I’d love to see the Merlin get a sizeable order but there doesn’t seem to be a category that’s empty for it to fill. The AL LSV is in a similar position but they’ve managed to secure a few orders for it from the IAF, Merlin has never been ordered. It would be a great shame if it became one of those products that’s developed and then never goes anywhere but that’s the nature of the beast
 

WolfPack86

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India outlines wheeled AFV acquisition
The Indian Army has detailed requirements supporting its acquisition of a wheeled armoured fighting vehicle (AFV), fitted with anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) capability.

In an ‘acceptance of necessity' (AoN) document issued by the army on 6 July, the service confirmed that the AFVs would be procured from local industry.

The AoN also stated that field trials of wheeled AFVs would start 36 months following the issue of the request for proposal (RFP). It said trials would be undertaken on a ‘no cost, no commitment' basis.

The document did not clarify when the RFP would be issued but said potential suppliers can express interest in obtaining the RFP from the army and government bodies including the Directorate General of Mechanised Infantry and the Department of Defence Production.

The AoN document was issued one month after the Ministry of Defence (MoD) announced that the procurement of “AFVs fitted with ATGMs” had been approved by its Defence Acquisition Council (DAC).

The MoD has not recently disclosed information about the value of the procurement or the number of AFVs to be acquired.

However, in a request for information (RFI) issued by the Indian Army in November 2019, it said it planned to procure 198 AFVs in an 8×8 configuration. According to Janes Markets Forecast, the wheeled AFV programme will be worth about USD1 billion between 2022 and 2031.
 

ezsasa

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India outlines wheeled AFV acquisition
The Indian Army has detailed requirements supporting its acquisition of a wheeled armoured fighting vehicle (AFV), fitted with anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) capability.

In an ‘acceptance of necessity' (AoN) document issued by the army on 6 July, the service confirmed that the AFVs would be procured from local industry.

The AoN also stated that field trials of wheeled AFVs would start 36 months following the issue of the request for proposal (RFP). It said trials would be undertaken on a ‘no cost, no commitment' basis.

The document did not clarify when the RFP would be issued but said potential suppliers can express interest in obtaining the RFP from the army and government bodies including the Directorate General of Mechanised Infantry and the Department of Defence Production.

The AoN document was issued one month after the Ministry of Defence (MoD) announced that the procurement of “AFVs fitted with ATGMs” had been approved by its Defence Acquisition Council (DAC).

The MoD has not recently disclosed information about the value of the procurement or the number of AFVs to be acquired.

However, in a request for information (RFI) issued by the Indian Army in November 2019, it said it planned to procure 198 AFVs in an 8×8 configuration. According to Janes Markets Forecast, the wheeled AFV programme will be worth about USD1 billion between 2022 and 2031.
if precedents are an indicator, the whole tender will fail if ATGM fails in the trails, then there will be re-tendering for vehicle separate, turret separate and atgm separate.

2031 will become 2041.
 

WolfPack86

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Indian Army Inducts Multiple Wheeled Armoured Vehicles
The Indian Army inducted three new wheeled armoured vehicles on April 12, 2022. At a function organised at the Bombay Engineers Group in Pune, Army Chief General MM Naravane inducted the first set of indigenously developed Quick Reaction Fighting Vehicle Medium (QRFV), Infantry Protected Mobility Vehicle (IPMV) and Ultra Long Range Observation System, all developed by Tata Advanced System Limited (TASL) along with Monocoque Hull Multi Role Mine Protected Armoured Vehicle developed by Bharat Forge. The Army Chief stated that “the induction of these indigenously developed systems by TASL and Bharat Forge would greatly enhance the operational capabilities of the Indian Army in future conflicts”.

The IPMV is based on the TASL 8×8 Wheeled Armoured Platform (WhAP) jointly developed with DRDO. WhAP is described as India’s first amphibious wheeled infantry combat vehicle. IPMV has some notable differences with WhAP, including a larger driver optics and the absence of pumpjets for amphibious roles. IPMV is equipped with a 7.62x51mm remote weapon station. The first lot consisted of six vehicles. A 2019 RfI by the Army had looked at procuring 198 8×8 wheeled armoured vehicles for various roles. WhAP is expected to be ordered in larger quantities to fulfil such requirements. The QRFV is the TASL 4×4 Mine protected Armoured Personnel Carrier. It has blast protection of up to 21kg of TNT. It can carry 14 personnel including the driver and commander.



The Monocoque Hull Multi Role Mine Protected Armoured Vehicle is the Kalyani M4 by Bharat Forge, which is based on Paramount Group’s Mbombe 4 vehicle. 27 of these high mobility vehicles had been ordered in February 2021 at a cost of Rs 177.95 crores. It can seat a total of 10 personnel. It can withstand under body blasts of up to 10kg of TNT. The Kalyani M4 was tested extensively in Ladakh by the Indian Army. The Army also inducted the TASL Rajak Ultra Long Range Observation System. It can detect human targets up to 18km and vehicles up to 26km during both day and night.


The induction of these vehicles are part of the Indian Army’s effort to improve the mobility and protection of its frontline units. An order for 1,300 Mahindra Armoured Light Specialist Vehicles (ALSV), placed in March 2021, is also set to commence deliveries. The Mahindra ALSV had faced competition from similar offerings by Tata and Kalyani. Another major Indian defence automotive firm, Ashok Leyland, has supplied new Light Bullet Proof Vehicles (LBPV) to the Indian Air Force since April 2021.
 

abingdonboy

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India outlines wheeled AFV acquisition
The Indian Army has detailed requirements supporting its acquisition of a wheeled armoured fighting vehicle (AFV), fitted with anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) capability.

In an ‘acceptance of necessity' (AoN) document issued by the army on 6 July, the service confirmed that the AFVs would be procured from local industry.

The AoN also stated that field trials of wheeled AFVs would start 36 months following the issue of the request for proposal (RFP). It said trials would be undertaken on a ‘no cost, no commitment' basis.

The document did not clarify when the RFP would be issued but said potential suppliers can express interest in obtaining the RFP from the army and government bodies including the Directorate General of Mechanised Infantry and the Department of Defence Production.

The AoN document was issued one month after the Ministry of Defence (MoD) announced that the procurement of “AFVs fitted with ATGMs” had been approved by its Defence Acquisition Council (DAC).

The MoD has not recently disclosed information about the value of the procurement or the number of AFVs to be acquired.

However, in a request for information (RFI) issued by the Indian Army in November 2019, it said it planned to procure 198 AFVs in an 8×8 configuration. According to Janes Markets Forecast, the wheeled AFV programme will be worth about USD1 billion between 2022 and 2031.
Trails to happen THREE YEARS after RFP issue? And RFP hasn’t even been issued yet, 3-4 years of cost negotiations then typical delays and then delivery. This isn’t coming this side of 2030

So Kestral and FICV are both firmly lost-2030 projects? IA really knows how to screw up procurements. They have seen the mess in Ukraine but still happy to keep bmp-2 by 1000s until 2030s now?

I really hope a war comes along to publicly humiliate all these generals in all 3 branches. They are continually kicking the can down the road whilst claiming ‘we are the best and are prepared for anything’ but that only works during peace.
 

Emperor Kalki

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Trails to happen THREE YEARS after RFP issue? And RFP hasn’t even been issued yet, 3-4 years of cost negotiations then typical delays and then delivery. This isn’t coming this side of 2030

So Kestral and FICV are both firmly lost-2030 projects? IA really knows how to screw up procurements. They have seen the mess in Ukraine but still happy to keep bmp-2 by 1000s until 2030s now?

I really hope a war comes along to publicly humiliate all these generals in all 3 branches. They are continually kicking the can down the road whilst claiming ‘we are the best and are prepared for anything’ but that only works during peace.
If they conduct the trials now, I guess its just Kestral/whap/ipmv/whatever new f*cking name they invent for it v/s no competition. Who knows, maybe the "others" can make better models as whap has set a benchmark upon which they can improve.

Whatever happens, my only wish is that they get a properly protected vehicle without those stupid windows and all. Its like they are suggesting to our enemies to aim right for those windows if they want to kill the infantrymen inside.
 

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