indian Airforce to built fighter strenght of 900 in next 10yrs

sam29

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Indian Airforce world 4th largest is getting serious challenges from all sides of threats from it is very important that we should maintain atleast 45 squardons of fighter fleets which would be around 900 aircraft/fighter bombers but the current delays and accident is resulting to depletion rather than growth of out airforce in next 10 years it sould be very important that India should have 50% 4th generation 40% 4++ generation and 10% 5 generation fighters but hows that possible in a short time of 10 years ...
 

jmj_overlord

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mmrca procedures should be completed fastly, lca should go into full swing production, more su 30mki and faster development of amca and pak fa........i think these might help our air force
 

p2prada

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Let's see, on contract and current fleet included, in 10 years we will have,

IAF
268 Su-30MKI
126 Rafale
123 LCA Mk1 and Mk2
~115 Jaguars
63 Mig-29
49 Mirage-2000
18 FGFA
= ~762

IN
45 Mig-29K
45 N-LCA
= 90 + around 40 N-MRCA being delivered after 2020 for the new carrier.

As long as the Rafale contract is signed and LCA Mk2 succeeds, we will have no issues reaching that number or even exceeding it in the next 10 years.
 

Srinivas_K

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I think we need more than 900 fighter aircraft. We have to optimize the cost of LCA (bring down the cost) and build more than 500 of them.
 

mikhail

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Let's see, on contract and current fleet included, in 10 years we will have,

IAF
268 Su-30MKI
126 Rafale
123 LCA Mk1 and Mk2
~115 Jaguars
63 Mig-29
49 Mirage-2000
18 FGFA
= ~762

IN
45 Mig-29K
45 N-LCA
= 90 + around 40 N-MRCA being delivered after 2020 for the new carrier.

As long as the Rafale contract is signed and LCA Mk2 succeeds, we will have no issues reaching that number or even exceeding it in the next 10 years.
Sir,is it possible for HAL to manufacture more than 50 LCA per year with proper infrastructure?i mean is it physically possible to mass produce a 4th generation aircraft like Tejas by HAL?
 

p2prada

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Sir,is it possible for HAL to manufacture more than 50 LCA per year with proper infrastructure?i mean is it physically possible to mass produce a 4th generation aircraft like Tejas by HAL?
Look at the total number of aircraft we plan to build. By 2022 we will be building around 16-20 Rafales a year, 16 LCAs a year and that will be followed by around ~20 FGFA a year. That's a total production capacity of over 50 aircraft a year. This must be similar to the numbers Russia and China are building. And around 35-40/year are more sophisticated than the LCAs.

The cost for production will be justified depending on the numbers built. Building an assembly line costs a lot of money, expanding it also costs a lot of money. If we build 500 LCAs at 50/year, then it is possible. The same as how the Americans plan on producing 3000 F-35s at 300+/year.

There is no requirement for 500+ LCAs. We currently have plans for 178 LCAs of both Mk1 and Mk2. Follow on orders could be 50% of that number, depending on how the jet performs and what the threat perception is. That's 8-12 squadrons between IAF and IN. So, the assembly line will be built for such numbers.

I think the justifiable numbers for production are 10% per year of the first contracted numbers.

140 MKI, we are building at 14/year. 178 LCAs, we plan to build 16/year. And so on.
 

sam29

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Look at the total number of aircraft we plan to build. By 2022 we will be building around 16-20 Rafales a year, 16 LCAs a year and that will be followed by around ~20 FGFA a year. That's a total production capacity of over 50 aircraft a year. This must be similar to the numbers Russia and China are building. And around 35-40/year are more sophisticated than the LCAs.

The cost for production will be justified depending on the numbers built. Building an assembly line costs a lot of money, expanding it also costs a lot of money. If we build 500 LCAs at 50/year, then it is possible. The same as how the Americans plan on producing 3000 F-35s at 300+/year.

There is no requirement for 500+ LCAs. We currently have plans for 178 LCAs of both Mk1 and Mk2. Follow on orders could be 50% of that number, depending on how the jet performs and what the threat perception is. That's 8-12 squadrons between IAF and IN. So, the assembly line will be built for such numbers.

I think the justifiable numbers for production are 10% per year of the first contracted numbers.

140 MKI, we are building at 14/year. 178 LCAs, we plan to build 16/year. And so on.
it was a wise decision to upgrade mig 29 to UPG standard and mirage 2000 to mk2-5 standard

But why we have not taken any good decison on Jaguar fighter which makes quite a bulk force with airforce

with British airforce had upgraded to gR3 grade with latest ASRAAM .HARM, AMRAAM, AND new exocet for its naval variant we could have a very good air to grounf support fighter after removal of MIG -27 in next 2-3 years
our Darin 3 upgrade is still way far to GR3 upgrade


secondly we strongly need a long rannge fighter specially for navy and a very fast intercepter


40 MIG -31 BM could be good option or 40 su-34
 

p2prada

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it was a wise decision to upgrade mig 29 to UPG standard and mirage 2000 to mk2-5 standard

But why we have not taken any good decison on Jaguar fighter which makes quite a bulk force with airforce
The Jaguars will be upgraded too. With new engines.

with British airforce had upgraded to gR3 grade with latest ASRAAM .HARM, AMRAAM, AND new exocet for its naval variant we could have a very good air to grounf support fighter after removal of MIG -27 in next 2-3 years
our Darin 3 upgrade is still way far to GR3 upgrade
We are negotiating a contract for 384 ASRAAMs for IAF Jaguars. Jaguars already carry the Harpoon Block 2. Jaguars are also capable of carrying Aim-120, we don't know if we will order it yet. A radar will also be part of the Jaguar upgrade. That will give it missile firing capabilities. And I think you are talking about the GR3A upgrade, it is obsolete compared to what's going on Jaguar.

secondly we strongly need a long rannge fighter specially for navy and a very fast intercepter
I don't believe the navy is looking for an interceptor. They are better off with strike aircraft like Rafale and F-35. They have the Mig-29K anyway.

40 MIG -31 BM could be good option or 40 su-34
Su-34 is a strike fighter and both are not navalized aircraft.

N-FGFA is a better option compared to both. The Russians are sure to design a navalized PAKFA.
 

sam29

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with increased presence of chinese navy in indian water its important we have a long range fighter bomber for navy that should cover almost all the indian territory moreover long range bombers are more of strategic dettrrence ...it will take aniother 10 years for PAK FA for INdia mean time we need to have some thing ...which have long range and can carry hell lots of anti ship missiles ...
Tu-22M3 was a very good option on lease but not a permamnat solution
 

p2prada

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with increased presence of chinese navy in indian water its important we have a long range fighter bomber for navy that should cover almost all the indian territory moreover long range bombers are more of strategic dettrrence ...it will take aniother 10 years for PAK FA for INdia mean time we need to have some thing ...which have long range and can carry hell lots of anti ship missiles ...
Tu-22M3 was a very good option on lease but not a permamnat solution
Tu-22 is not a fighter. It is a heavy bomber, and it is not very useful against ships without long range cruise missiles which Russia cannot supply or India currently cannot build. Any closer and the Tu-22 will come under fire. FGFA is more useful in such a scenario. It can get closer and deliver more munitions because of the numbers employed. Plus better sortie rate and excellent range and endurance.

Long range bombers are for strategic deterrence only when there are land targets to nuke. No use against Chinese ships in such a scenario. The reason why US and Russia use long range bombers is because they are too far away from each other. That is not the case with us. The day US and Europe become our enemies is the day we also deploy bombers. Right now, we can use all that money on nuclear submarines instead, which is more useful.
 

Dark Sorrow

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with increased presence of chinese navy in indian water its important we have a long range fighter bomber for navy that should cover almost all the indian territory moreover long range bombers are more of strategic dettrrence ...it will take aniother 10 years for PAK FA for INdia mean time we need to have some thing ...which have long range and can carry hell lots of anti ship missiles ...
Tu-22M3 was a very good option on lease but not a permamnat solution
The best solution is Boeing P-8I Neptune armed with AGM-84-Harpoon operating in conjunction with the Northrop Grumman MQ-4C Triton Broad Area Maritime Surveillance unmanned aerial vehicle operating from Andaman and Nicobar Islands. If needed we could have Mig-29K and MKI armed with Brahmos-A / Brahmos-M.
 

sam29

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Mig-29K is indoubtly one of the best naval crafts of the world ..with best anti ship it can be a deadly bloww to our adversaries ...but 45 as of now is not enough to counter planes like J-11B we need to have atleast 100 dedicated fighters for the navy itself to counter attck from both eastern and western seas ...tejas naval variant will take another 4-5 yers to enter the service mean time chinese are planning to add AESA radars so their J-11B which would be far superior to our Tejas, Rafales will immedietly wont bve used for naval activities anf 16 aircraft a year means not much ...
 

sam29

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It seems rafale is stuck in as usual negotiations recent remark by our air chief that with present condition we will down to 550 approx fighter planes 900 seems to be a distant dream.
Tejas is still away for FOC clearnce. .
My thinking why we should go for
60 new mirage 2000 mk2-5
40 new mig 29 smt
variant that will aleast replace all mig 27
sqd
Mean time we can select some other light fighter
Like jas grippen or f16 in which will compliment these delays
 

sam29

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Ok why these mirage n mig 29 as we already have the infrastructure to serice n repair and train these crafts n thesr upgraded version is comparable to best 4+ fighters of the world .
 

garg_bharat

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It seems rafale is stuck in as usual negotiations recent remark by our air chief that with present condition we will down to 550 approx fighter planes 900 seems to be a distant dream.
Tejas is still away for FOC clearnce. .
My thinking why we should go for
60 new mirage 2000 mk2-5
40 new mig 29 smt
variant that will aleast replace all mig 27
sqd
Mean time we can select some other light fighter
Like jas grippen or f16 in which will compliment these delays
Maybe air force does not want this.

In light of around 250 su-30 already inducted, the force level is not as bad as it seems.

You need to factor upgrades of mirage and mig29 also. So we have good number of fighters.

Retiring fighters cannot be compared with the ones under induction.
 

PaliwalWarrior

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I think we need more than 900 fighter aircraft. We have to optimize the cost of LCA (bring down the cost) and build more than 500 of them.
Optimise - reduce - the cost of lca ?/

How much lower are u planning on ?

Optimise the cost of lca out of all the multi hindered million dollar list of aircraft ?

We should spend more on avionics and development of lca
 

PaliwalWarrior

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After upgrade

The jags migs29/& mirage should last upto 2035

Also su3 should last upto 2040 with super upgrade

So those nos will be stable till 2030

The problem is mig21 and mig 27

Tejas can replace them, sorry tejas WILL replace them

How fast ? Is the question

Fgfa & SEcond mrca amca will add nos upto 2030

So upto 2020

When tejas will be fr replacing retiring fighters

The total nos will remain steady

There after the retirement rate of mig21 & mig 27 will be less than induction rate of tejas & other mrca

So the total nos of fighters will increase till 2025-2027

Thereafter tejas if ordered more will increase nos the other mrca should have been finished inducting and the amca fgfa induction should start in full fledged manner by 2028-2030

Which will go toward replacement of mirage jag mig21 from 2032 onwards also increase overall nos in small quantities every year depending upon retirement schedule
 

Nuvneet Kundu

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I think we need more than 900 fighter aircraft. We have to optimize the cost of LCA (bring down the cost) and build more than 500 of them.
We should induct so many LCAs that the IAF should feel ashamed to even ask for more planes in the next 2 decades. These privileged sons of entitled bitches have been punking us for long now. First they claim that so and so is absolutely needed for the security, and we give it to them, but still incidents like Kargil happen where we were found to be lacking even basic precision strike munitions. Where was the money allocated to the IAF being spent for the last 10 years if we didn't have laser guided bombs in 1999 despite them having been invented 2 decades ago?

It's the same with current acquisitions. They keep on coming up with alarmist posts and media leaks claiming that India will get invaded and cease to exist if the nation does not give in to the IAF's blackmail and allow them to buy whichever shiny, expensive foreign equipment these spoiled brats have set their eyes on. The IAF, (unlike the Navy) instead of co-operating with the DRDO, has only played the part of a defense consultant over the decades. They never tell you what improvements need to be made in Indian designs, they will simply recommend a foreign design and be done with it. One must strictly scrutinize their bank accounts and those of their relatives for disproportionate assets.
 
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