Indian Air Force of the Future

F-14

Global Defence Moderator
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
1,563
Likes
25
India Opens 2nd Round Jet Trainer Buy to Competition

The induction of advanced jet trainers into India’s Air Force has been a long and difficult process. After a nuumber of false starts, and indigenous efforts like HAL’s Ajeet that didn’t quite live up to expectations, a 20-year procurement process came to an end when India selected BAE’s Hawk 115Y as its future advanced jet trainer in 2004. The 66-plane order was worth about $1.2 billion, and included options for another 40 aircraft. The first 24 Hawk Mk.132 AJTs have already been delivered by BAE; the other 42 would be license-manufactured by Hindustan Aeronautics, Ltd. in India.

In March 2009, the Press Trust of India reported that India’s Air Force had elected not to pick up the follow-on option. In and of itself, that is not unusual. What is unusual, is a follow-on competition for advanced trainers thrown open to international firms, via a February 2009 RFP. Now, an article in India’s press sheds some light on issues with the current Hawk AJT contract, and the crtical state of India’s trainer fleet…
 

StealthSniper

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
1,111
Likes
60
Aircraft with Indian Airforce

FIGHTER AIRCRAFT

Mig 21 Bison - 106
Mig 21 Bis-48
Mig 21 M/MF- 72
Mig 21 FL-48
125 MiG-21bis upgraded to "Bison" standard. All MiG-21s to be phased out by 2011 except MiG-21 Bison, which will stay in service up to 2025.

Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29 Fulcrum -62+8trainers
All 62 MiG-29S to be upgraded to "SMT" standard.Service life of MiG-29s aircraft will be extended from 25 to 40 years,first deliveries in 2010 and program to be completed by 2013.

Sukhoi Su-30MKI Flanker-H as of now we have 106 operational aircraft however Total of around 280 (50+140+40+(Additional 50 to be ordered, as per ForceIndia) will be procured/produced/assembled by 2015-2016.

Dassault Mirage 2000--- 51 of them are operational .The fleet of 51 aircraft are to be upgraded to Mirage 2000-5 standards. As of April, 2008, Thales & Dassault are chosen as Upgrade OEMs. Price negotiations and negotiations for missiles may be going on.

BOMBER AIRCRAFT

Jaguar GR-1 Shamser -- 104 + 25 trainer
Jaguar IS and Jaguar IM- 6+4 In all 178, including 20 IS + 17 IT (new builds conform to DARIN-II standards),35 earlier DARIN-1 aircraft lost and had major avionics/systems upgrades completed for 40 older DARIN-I aircraft to DARIN-2, DARIN-3 fit currently being finalized for around 60+ remaining DARIN-I Jaguars. Engine upgrade also being considered for the entire fleet, choice between Honeywell F-125 and uprated Rolls Royce Adour variant.

TOTAL FIGHTER AIRCRAFT AS OF NOW -720

GROUND ATTACK AIRCRAFT

Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-27UPG---<100 aircraft Upgrades completed for 40 a/c( Sqdn 10 and 29).The aircraft should remain in service until 2025

AIR TANKER AIRCRAFT

Ilyushin Il-78 MKI-- 6 aircraft In 2003, the IAF ordered 6 IL-78MKI aircraft from Uzbekistan and are fitted with aerial refueling pods from Israel.[12] India took delivery of the tankers in 2004.

FUTURE AIRCRAFT

HAL Tejas---200 20 aircraft Mk1 with F404 engine(16+4) already on order. Plus, reports suggest 8 more two-seaters ordered. A Mk 2 with either F414 or Eurojet engines being developed. Eventually to be inducted from end 2012 onwards, total units expected to be @200 aircraft, including two seat versions for IAF and IN. Aircraft to have around 70% Indian content. Primary aims are to replace MiG-21's & MiG 27's in service. The LCA is to be a light air superiority aircraft with significant multirole capabilities, and in flight refuelling. FOC expected around 2011-12, production to continue till 2020 for a minimum of around seven squadrons in service (@ 200 aircraft ). Reports suggest that the Indian Navy has ordered 8 LCA's for Rs 900cr from HAL in Sept 2009.


MMRCA competition - 126-189----India's Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) programme is to acquire 126 ( + 63 on option) Multi-Role aircraft at an estimated cost of $10.24 Billion; the program may be extended to acquire a total of 189 aircraft. Competitors for the bid include F-16 Falcon IN, JAS-39 Gripen NG, MiG-35, Dassault Rafale, F-18 E/F Super Hornet & the Eurofighter Typhoon. The acquisition will give a significant boost to the IAF and make up for the retirement of its older MiG-21's & MiG-27's .Also lockheed has kept an option for IAF to buy F-35's.

PAK FAGA--- > 150 aircraft .Serious development and funding programme put in place, Reports suggest formal Indo-Russian agreement(HAL-UAC) signed on 23/12/08. First flight of the Russian derivative expected in 2009-10. Being developed from the Russian Su T-50, Tandem-seat variant. Indian Air Force plans for up to 10 Squadrons of the type. Reports suggest that as the Su 30MKI production tapers off in 2015-16, production of the FGFA will start by HAL in 2016 onwards


TRANSPORT AIRCRAFT

Antonov An-32 Cline-- 104 ,15 aircraft crashed/accidents so far. 104 AN-32s will get an upgrade and life extension overhaul from 2009 to 2017,(at a cost of USD$ 397.7/Deal signed with Ukraine on 15/6/09) with an initial lot of 6 a/c being sent to Ukraine and the rest undergoing it at Kanpur BRD. 8 An32's configured for VIP transport. [8] To be replaced by the MRTA.

Ilyushin Il-76 Candid--24 Being Upgraded; 1st Upgraded Il-76 back on 23/3/09.

C-17 Globemaster III- 10 IAF selected the C-17 Globemaster III to fill the role of Very Heavy Lift Transport Aircraft (VHTAC)

C-130J Super Hercules 6 Six ordered for Special Operations. Options for 6 more.

Ilyushin/HAL Tactical Transport Aircraft -- 45 First flight expected in 2011. Irkut has pulled out of the project after an industry realignment and has been replaced by Ilyushin. Total cost of development is 600 million US$. The envisaged requirement is for 100 aircraft for the Russian Air Force, 45+ for the Indian Air Force (IAF) and a projected demand of 60 from third countries. The IAF sees the aircraft as a replacement for its ageing fleet of 60-70 An-32/ and Avro HS 748 aircraft. Planned Specs: Maximum takeoff weight: 55,000 kg, Capacity: 88 to 100 paratroopers/ passengers, Payload: 18.5 tons. The deal was signed in November 2007 during Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's visit to Moscow. Rosoboronexport has now identified Ilyushin Aviation Complex as the new prime nodal agency after Irkut pulled out of the project in March 2008. The development and certification of the new aircraft is expected to be completed within six years

That's a good detailed list, and you even included the transport and tanker aircraft which is good. I don't think we will be or should be flying any Mig 21 bison, standard or not after 2012 just because it doesn't matter how good the plane is the airframe is not brand new it's just updated. That would be scary if we use it up to 2015 or later.

And you mentioned that we will have 280 aircraft but we don't know for sure if we have confirmed we are getting 50 more MKI or not. I didn't know much about the Jaguar or the Mig 27 so thank you for more detailed information on it.

Now can you please give me YOUR list of what you think we will have in say, 2015-2020. I would like to know what you think we will have then. Thanks.
 

AJSINGH

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Messages
1,237
Likes
77
AJ shabb what about the MRTT A2A refulling tankers that were listed and the MC-130J's we are also awating the the MMRCA and other aircraft
A requirement for six Aerial refuellers either Airbus A330 MRTT or Ilyushin Il-78. Airbus A330 MRTT was shortlisted by IAF because Ilyushin Il-78 was not able to meet the requirements.
i have included other aircraft in my previous post
 

AJSINGH

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Messages
1,237
Likes
77
Now can you please give me YOUR list of what you think we will have in say, 2015-2020. I would like to know what you think we will have then. Thanks.
IAF IN 2015-2020

HELICOPTERS

Mil Mi -8/17 102 and 90+ The 102 Mi 8's are to be replaced by 80 weaponized Mi-17V-5's, for delivery early 2010-2013. The $1.2 Billion deal was signed on 5/12/08. During MAKS 2009 it was revealed that IAF is planning on ordering 40 more Mi-17-V5 helicopters.[15]. Reports also suggest that the Augusta-Westland EH 101 ( 8 VIP + 4 Utility) has been shortlisted for replacing the VIP Mi-8/-17's.

PAK FAGA more than 100 aircraft of that type , expected to be in active service in 2018

MEDIUM COMBAT AIRCRAFT > 100 aircraft .A 5th Generation aircraft which is under preliminary development. Project proposal accepted, IAF Joint committee began framing specifications on May 4, 2009. Expected to be a Jaguar & Mirage 2000 replacement.

Light Utility Helicopter (LUH) 384 helicopters . Indian Armed Forces have a requirement of 384 light utility helicopter to replace its aging fleet of Cheetah and Chetak helicopters. Earlier Ministry of Defense had scrapped a deal in which Eurocopter AS350 was chosen but later some irregularities were found in the selection process. The helicopters were sought only for India Air Force and then the Indian Army and Indian Navy has joined. Since then HAL has also joined the race with its HAL Light Observation Helicopter and the deal was splitted into 187 indigenous light utility helicopter and 197 foreign, that will be fielded in a new competition. The new competition is expected to start soon and Eurocopter will field the military version Eurocopter Fennec in the trials this time. Deliveries of 133 helicopter for the Army and 64 for the Air Force should start by the end of 2010.

Attack Helicopter 22 helicopters . Earlier up to 80 helicopters were projected to complement the existing Mi-25/ 35 attack helicopters, but after considering the development of the indigenous HAL LCH, this number has been reduced to 22. RFI issued/outright purchase. Boeing's AH-64D Apache, Mil's Mi-28, Kamov's Ka-52 and Eurocopter's Tiger are the front-runners for this order. Reports confirm on 24/3/09 that RFP cancelled and a new one would be issued in near future, thereby delaying the procurement plan by @2 years to 2012.

HAL Light Combat Helicopter 65+ for IAF . 65 LCH to be delivered to the IAF from 2012 to 2015; Developed from the Dhruv; flight tests now by late 2009(delayed 1 year); FOC end 2011. Reports suggest whole programme delayed by about 1 year as HAL seeks to trim weight further.Developed from the ALH Dhruv.

Transport Helicopters 15 helicopters . Indian Air Force has circulated the Request for Information for Heavy Lift Helicopters to the vendors. For this contract, the bidders could include Mil's Mi-26, Boeing's CH-47 Chinook, and Sikorsky's CH-53 Sea Stallion. Indian Air Force has the requirement of 15 such helicopters.

Aerial Refueling Tanker 6 aircraft .A requirement for six Aerial refuellers either Airbus A330 MRTT or Ilyushin Il-78. Airbus A330 MRTT was shortlisted by IAF because Ilyushin Il-78 was not able to meet the
requirements. [22]

On top of that if every project is competed on time by GOI and aircraft are inducted at the right time .IAF would be inducting 200+ LCA . 230 Su 30MKI ,100+ PAK FAGA ,100+ MCA ,66 Mig 29SMT,
 

bsn4u1985

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
125
Likes
7
i think india should look for a good startegic bomber force of higher range and higher capability with sophisticated stealth technology.......like usa's b-2 bombers,russia's tu-160 bombers......etc. which can strike anywhere in the world.....i think to be a global force we should think about it
 

sandeepdg

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Messages
2,333
Likes
226
i think india should look for a good startegic bomber force of higher range and higher capability with sophisticated stealth technology.......like usa's b-2 bombers,russia's tu-160 bombers......etc. which can strike anywhere in the world.....i think to be a global force we should think about it
Mate, India dose not have the budget and the requirement to carry out such an development. Also, check out the previous posts.
 

A chauhan

"अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l"
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Messages
7,587
Likes
13,996
Country flag
Aircraft with Indian Airforce

FIGHTER AIRCRAFT
FUTURE AIRCRAFT

HAL Tejas---200 20 aircraft Mk1 with F404 engine(16+4) already on order. Plus, reports suggest 8 more two-seaters ordered. A Mk 2 with either F414 or Eurojet engines being developed. Eventually to be inducted from end 2012 onwards, total units expected to be @200 aircraft, including two seat versions for IAF and IN. Aircraft to have around 70% Indian content. Primary aims are to replace MiG-21's & MiG 27's in service. The LCA is to be a light air superiority aircraft with significant multirole capabilities, and in flight refuelling. FOC expected around 2011-12, production to continue till 2020 for a minimum of around seven squadrons in service (@ 200 aircraft ). Reports suggest that the Indian Navy has ordered 8 LCA's for Rs 900cr from HAL in Sept 2009.


MMRCA competition - 126-189----India's Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) programme is to acquire 126 ( + 63 on option) Multi-Role aircraft at an estimated cost of $10.24 Billion; the program may be extended to acquire a total of 189 aircraft. Competitors for the bid include F-16 Falcon IN, JAS-39 Gripen NG, MiG-35, Dassault Rafale, F-18 E/F Super Hornet & the Eurofighter Typhoon. The acquisition will give a significant boost to the IAF and make up for the retirement of its older MiG-21's & MiG-27's .Also lockheed has kept an option for IAF to buy F-35's.

PAK FAGA--- > 150 aircraft .Serious development and funding programme put in place, Reports suggest formal Indo-Russian agreement(HAL-UAC) signed on 23/12/08. First flight of the Russian derivative expected in 2009-10. Being developed from the Russian Su T-50, Tandem-seat variant. Indian Air Force plans for up to 10 Squadrons of the type. Reports suggest that as the Su 30MKI production tapers off in 2015-16, production of the FGFA will start by HAL in 2016 onwards


MEDIUM COMBAT AIRCRAFT > 100 aircraft .A 5th Generation aircraft which is under preliminary development. Project proposal accepted, IAF Joint committee began framing specifications on May 4, 2009. Expected to be a Jaguar & Mirage 2000 replacement.
Good List ! but I think we should have more then 150 Medium Combat Aircraft , it has fair chances to be developed in short time, as now we have a good infrastructure & a good team of scientists and engineers to do it.If developed it will be cheaper than imported aircrafts of its class...
 

bsn4u1985

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
125
Likes
7
Mate, India dose not have the budget and the requirement to carry out such an development. Also, check out the previous posts.
the more capable of buying this products in the world in this time is india and china,no other country..but i think may be indian military strategist's strategy in buying more multi role fighter bombers not long range bombers.....due to high operational cost and maintainace cost....
 

icecoolben

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
472
Likes
4
Do u guys really think medium combat aircraft would see the skies by 2020, by my estimates 'we took 30 years to develop and induct tejas fighter' hopefully this is how a news paper will give headlines in 2013 during feb air india show. Had ada even framed the air-craft designs and gotten funding as a follow on project by then, they would take no less than 15 years to fly the first production variant subsequent production variant for navy, trainer, fligt tests and eventual induction 3 years later which would put it at 2030. Then the 2031 aero india show will report 'india inducts first batch of medium combat aircraft named hf-xx lightning or something and our guys are already into getting 150+ aircraft in the forum by 2020.
Guys by 2040 around the world, these stealth planes will get replaced by unmanned combat stealth fighter planes with super human character flying hopefully not with autonomous controls. By, which su-30 would be limping like mig-21. V would need to replace them by unmanned planes, and v would be inducting medium combat planes, is it wise to do so,

the best way to bring medium combat aircraft by 2022 is by learning from fgfa till 2012 on technology while working under wraps on our own aircraft and the engine under technology demostrator cover. With the Us asking 0„6 1 trillion from japan for info of stealth and features on f-35, they have started research on a fighter that matches such as capability, which is precisely what the medium combat plane is and with a sea of change in japan's political and public mindset to assert national soverignity, we can ask them to amend such provisions of their constitution that does not allow them any military cooperation with foreign countries except Us to involve us on a special case, a joint development initiated in 2013 would definitely fruitify to serial production by 2022, owing to japanese industrial competence and their ability to transfer such know-how to us under the programme. Production can be done in both countries, while japs bring high-tech, indians could lower costs.
The opposition could come for the project from china vehemently. Which the governments would do well to brush aside. But the real irk for the indian side could come from the russians would would push new delhi to terminate the venture, on grounds of their island disputes with japan and intellectual rights compromise on fgfa. While the japs would face their share from the americans, who would offer their f-35 and might overtly exert pressure on their polity to pull out; this, the indian establishment should dissuade by constant diplomacy and assurance.
Anychance of our members to talk of medium combat fight fighters flying would not happen by 2020 and even the possibility between 2022-25 rests on joint development.
 

sandeepdg

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Messages
2,333
Likes
226
the more capable of buying this products in the world in this time is india and china,no other country..but i think may be indian military strategist's strategy in buying more multi role fighter bombers not long range bombers.....due to high operational cost and maintainace cost....
Its not about what we can afford or not.Our war doctrine does not require inter continental bombing raids, so we have no need for the TU-160 OR B1 type bombers. The TU22M3 is more than capable of handling our bombing needs with its current range of upto 2000 kms.
 

jatkshatriya

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
244
Likes
30
Do u guys really think medium combat aircraft would see the skies by 2020, by my estimates 'we took 30 years to develop and induct tejas fighter' hopefully this is how a news paper will give headlines in 2013 during feb air india show. Had ada even framed the air-craft designs and gotten funding as a follow on project by then, they would take no less than 15 years to fly the first production variant subsequent production variant for navy, trainer, fligt tests and eventual induction 3 years later which would put it at 2030. Then the 2031 aero india show will report 'india inducts first batch of medium combat aircraft named hf-xx lightning or something and our guys are already into getting 150+ aircraft in the forum by 2020.
Guys by 2040 around the world, these stealth planes will get replaced by unmanned combat stealth fighter planes with super human character flying hopefully not with autonomous controls. By, which su-30 would be limping like mig-21. V would need to replace them by unmanned planes, and v would be inducting medium combat planes, is it wise to do so,

the best way to bring medium combat aircraft by 2022 is by learning from fgfa till 2012 on technology while working under wraps on our own aircraft and the engine under technology demostrator cover. With the Us asking �0�6 1 trillion from japan for info of stealth and features on f-35, they have started research on a fighter that matches such as capability, which is precisely what the medium combat plane is and with a sea of change in japan's political and public mindset to assert national soverignity, we can ask them to amend such provisions of their constitution that does not allow them any military cooperation with foreign countries except Us to involve us on a special case, a joint development initiated in 2013 would definitely fruitify to serial production by 2022, owing to japanese industrial competence and their ability to transfer such know-how to us under the programme. Production can be done in both countries, while japs bring high-tech, indians could lower costs.
The opposition could come for the project from china vehemently. Which the governments would do well to brush aside. But the real irk for the indian side could come from the russians would would push new delhi to terminate the venture, on grounds of their island disputes with japan and intellectual rights compromise on fgfa. While the japs would face their share from the americans, who would offer their f-35 and might overtly exert pressure on their polity to pull out; this, the indian establishment should dissuade by constant diplomacy and assurance.
Anychance of our members to talk of medium combat fight fighters flying would not happen by 2020 and even the possibility between 2022-25 rests on joint development.
friend...eurofighter took 28 years to dvelop from when it was concieved, F-22 took 20 years...for a country like india taking 25 or 30 years is actually not that bad....its all western corporations propoganda to make the IAF buy their things and pump all those dollars into them....with the LCA project our development team not only has gained vast experience but also has put into place critical infrastructure( such as various testing and simulation labs, complex calculation doing hardware and software etc etc) which will be very helpful in future researches and so will take less time hopefully
 

pyromaniac

Founding Member
Regular Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
535
Likes
12
its all western corporations propoganda to make the IAF buy their things and pump all those dollars into them
It actually has more to do with the fact that the politicians use every opportunity they have to induct new weapons to buy from a foreign source. They play up the political card and not to mention they get a pretty good cut aka bribe from the process.
 

smartindian

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2010
Messages
614
Likes
58
Country flag
dear members can any one can tell me what are the new upgrades(avionics,radar,structural changes,engine ext) are taking place in mig -29
 

sandeepdg

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Messages
2,333
Likes
226
What I would want in the future IAF:

MCA: 150-200
PAKFA/FGFA: 200-250
MMRCA: 126 EF-2000. That's what I would love to see in IAF and number should be increased to 150.

Also, replace all MIG 29s (69) with the MIG 35 or upgrade it to that standard, not exactly sure whether the current upgrade to SMT standard will bring it on par with the MIG 35.

Replace all MIG 27s with the SU-34 Bomber.

Replace all Jaguars with British Tornados.

Finally, replace all Mirage 2000s (51) with the Rafale !! That way we have two/three formidable aircraft in the MMRCA category, if we count the MIG 35 also.
 

[email protected]

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
1,570
Likes
1,732
Country flag
i heard by the year 2030 most of the airforces will switch to 90% unmanned aircrafts. so if the FGFA and mca aircraft is as revolutionary as su-27 (which is evolving for 4 decades) then we should consider conversion of their airframes into ucav's which would be cheaper and inducted in thousands.
 

sandeepdg

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Messages
2,333
Likes
226
@ JHA and ARPS

Guys, why are you so amazed about the Tornado ? Jha, what you are talking about is way back in the 80's !! The Tornado today is as good as a modified Mig-27 and nothing more ! I mentioned the Tornado since it is the best replacement for the Jaguar, since it is supposed to remain operational for at least 10 more years, I suppose, since its the only credible deep penetration strike bomber in IAF. And anyway, half of our air force is already full of outdated aircraft, as you all know ! It is very much active with RAF, Luftwaffe, the Italian air force and the Royal Saudi air force, so the IAF should have no problem in accepting it. Its a good aircraft fulfilling MRCA roles with variants such as ADV(Air defense), ECR(electronic recon) and IDS(interdiction strike). All four nations are using 2-3 variants of them.
 
Last edited:

natarajan

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Messages
2,592
Likes
750
mca 200
pakfa 200
mrca 200
su30 300
tejas 200
su34 200
total 1300
this is my wishlist
 

JHA

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
115
Likes
11
@ sandeepdg

I kinow that sir. What i wanted to say is that for replacing Jaguar We need a modern plane not a fighter which will start retiring in next 10 years.
If we are planning to replace Jaguar then I would like us to go for Su-34 or, F-15 Strike eagle.
 

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top