Indian Air Force of the Future

AJSINGH

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Well I would not suggest the MiG-35 for the MMRCA. There are too many Russian platforms already in our Air force. Thus when the MiG 35 wins we will be an all Russian air force. This will give Russia the strategic leverage. India, a growing power in the region cannot allow another country to dictate terms to it. So the MiG 35 is a strict no-no. And the MiG 35 is another souped up MiG 29.

The MiG 21s cannot be used as bomber escort as they are being used as the principle point defence. They also lack the range required for escort of bombers. The M-MRCA will be the principle bomb delivery system in the IAF for the near future. The Mirage 2000s which are upgraded to the 2005 standards will be the major multirole aircraft and will compliment the MMRCA winner. The SU 30MKI will be the Air Dominance fighter which will be flown for multi-role purposes.

The PAK-FA will compliment the MiG 29SMT in Air superiority. The DARIN 3 upgraded Jaguars might be used for close air support along with the MiG 27 DARIN 2 upgrades. The LCA will be the main interceptor with secondary ground attack role.

The C-17 will be the heavy lift transport along with the IL 76 which will form the lo end of heavy-lift. The AN-32 will be replaced by the MTA co-developed by Russia and India. The C 130J will be for special ops team only.

The Indian LCH will be the mainstay of the combat helicopter division of the Air force being supplemented by the Mi 35. I prefer the KA 52 for this as it is a beast of a machine. The Mi 28N is as good as the Apache. But Ka 52 with its Co-axial rotor is far more agile.

first i would like to say is that Mig 35 IS THE BEST COMBAT AIRCRAFT IN MMRCA comeptition .,....cheap ...IAF is using Mig 29 already so no need for new infastructure and traning ....and it is not some modified version of Mig 29 ..it is entirely new combat aircraft with TVC and ASEA radar with new generation missile ..russia has always supported us and not imposed any sanctions unlike USA ....yeh i was wrong in Mig 21 view ...they are getting phased out already....MMRCA would not only be gorund attack ..also second in line for offence and recon purpose also

and yeh KA 52 is better than the appache
 

SATISH

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first i would like to say is that Mig 35 IS THE BEST COMBAT AIRCRAFT IN MMRCA comeptition .,....cheap ...IAF is using Mig 29 already so no need for new infastructure and traning ....and it is not some modified version of Mig 29 ..it is entirely new combat aircraft with TVC and ASEA radar with new generation missile ..russia has always supported us and not imposed any sanctions unlike USA
The MiG 35 loses in the political front. Even the French have never stopped their supply till date...get out of the view that only the American teen series and the Russian MiG series are there. The EJ 200 is a strong contender for the LCA engine and it ironically powers the Eurofighter. The Rafale made by Dassault who also make the IAF's hot favorite Mirage 2000 are also there. you need to look at the most agine and the most capable fighters also contending in the deal. The MiG 35 might be the best machine but it is still lacking in the avionics front which the western fighters already rule in. The MiG 35 must be MKIzed thus bringing the costs to the levels of the western fighters. Taking all these into considerations I strongly advocate against purchasing the MiG 35.
 

AJSINGH

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The MiG 35 loses in the political front. Even the French have never stopped their supply till date...get out of the view that only the American teen series and the Russian MiG series are there. The EJ 200 is a strong contender for the LCA engine and it ironically powers the Eurofighter. The Rafale made by Dassault who also make the IAF's hot favorite Mirage 2000 are also there. you need to look at the most agine and the most capable fighters also contending in the deal. The MiG 35 might be the best machine but it is still lacking in the avionics front which the western fighters already rule in. The MiG 35 must be MKIzed thus bringing the costs to the levels of the western fighters. Taking all these into considerations I strongly advocate against purchasing the MiG 35.
first what Russians are showing Mig 35 wll not be the same what we will recieve ...it will Be mIG 35 mki ..with russian proven airframe and engine with Tvc and we have option for western electronics onboard ...think of it best of both worlds .....in red flag excercise 2008 after encountering F-16 ...IAF said that its capability is very simmilar to that of Migrage 2000-5 which india will get after the upgrades ...accroding to IAF doctrine ...they would like to have twin engine heavy fighter because first twin engine survive better if they have been engaged in battlefield ....plus higher range and higher payload ...
India may buy seprate engine for LCA that wont matter much i MMRCA
 

Sabir

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couple of years back there was some news of buying 2nd hand Mirage 2000 from France and Qutar. What happened to the plan. India is also supposed to sell 18 Su-30 MK (the first batch India received from Russia before Su-30MKI) to Belarush.
 

SATISH

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first what Russians are showing Mig 35 wll not be the same what we will recieve ...it will Be mIG 35 mki ..with russian proven airframe and engine with Tvc and we have option for western electronics onboard ...think of it best of both worlds .....in red flag excercise 2008 after encountering F-16 ...IAF said that its capability is very simmilar to that of Migrage 2000-5 which india will get after the upgrades ...accroding to IAF doctrine ...they would like to have twin engine heavy fighter because first twin engine survive better if they have been engaged in battlefield ....plus higher range and higher payload ...
India may buy seprate engine for LCA that wont matter much i MMRCA
The major advantage of the MiG 35 is the cost and similarity of equipment. the Cost is negated by adding western avionics. The similarity is negated due to the large russian arsenal. these are the two main disadvantages of the MiG 35. Just tell me how are you going to neutralise them?
 

AJSINGH

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The major advantage of the MiG 35 is the cost and similarity of equipment. the Cost is negated by adding western avionics. The similarity is negated due to the large russian arsenal. these are the two main disadvantages of the MiG 35. Just tell me how are you going to neutralise them?
first even in sukhoi 30mki ..we have western electronics ...so that is the simmilariy with the Mig 35 ...electronics wont be extra money because the same elctronics will be removed from mig 35 and replaced by western electronics....so we keep the simmilarity and also will not increase in price

in su 30mki ...we have indian avionics also and the famous isralie lightning pod
 

AJSINGH

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couple of years back there was some news of buying 2nd hand Mirage 2000 from France and Qutar. What happened to the plan. India is also supposed to sell 18 Su-30 MK (the first batch India received from Russia before Su-30MKI) to Belarush.
about the mirage that idea was shelved and the first batch of su 30mkk not mki have been given back ...and we have got the MKI version
 

SATISH

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first even in sukhoi 30mki ..we have western electronics ...so that is the simmilariy with the Mig 35 ...electronics wont be extra money because the same elctronics will be removed from mig 35 and replaced by western electronics....so we keep the simmilarity and also will not increase in price

in su 30mki ...we have indian avionics also and the famous isralie lightning pod
That is wh the cost of Su 30 sky rocketed from $45 million a piece to $85 million a piece.
 

AJSINGH

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That is wh the cost of Su 30 sky rocketed from $45 million a piece to $85 million a piece.
yeh but still a good deal after for india ...not to forget that it comes with full TOT
 

shankarosky

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Mig 35 is my fav for the following reasons
1)cheapest amomgst all contenders
2)indian pilots are familair
3)has thrust vectoring option and a new smoke less engine
4) AESA demonstrated during aero 2007/2009/maks 2009
5) very high thrust to weight ratio
6) no sanction threat
7) exsiting engine manufacturing capacity
8) offer for complete TOT including manufacturing T/R modules in India
9) can be MKIzed easily as in caseof sukhoi 30
 

SATISH

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Mig 35 is my fav for the following reasons
1)cheapest amomgst all contenders
2)indian pilots are familair
3)has thrust vectoring option and a new smoke less engine
4) AESA demonstrated during aero 2007/2009/maks 2009
5) very high thrust to weight ratio
6) no sanction threat
7) exsiting engine manufacturing capacity
8) offer for complete TOT including manufacturing T/R modules in India
9) can be MKIzed easily as in caseof sukhoi 30
The main problem is no strategic or political objective achieved and the aircraft has short legs.
 

s_bman

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Mig 35 is my fav for the following reasons
1)cheapest amomgst all contenders
2)indian pilots are familair
3)has thrust vectoring option and a new smoke less engine
4) AESA demonstrated during aero 2007/2009/maks 2009
5) very high thrust to weight ratio
6) no sanction threat
7) exsiting engine manufacturing capacity
8) offer for complete TOT including manufacturing T/R modules in India
9) can be MKIzed easily as in caseof sukhoi 30
there are certain other issues as well

if mkized........cost of mig 35 will increase(so it might not remain cheapest)

operating cost should also be an important factor(fuel efficiency and maintainence issues)
russian planes are traditionally cheaper than competition but have higher life cycle cost.
russian zhuk ae aesa demonstrated at aero india 2007 had ~600 tr units
but aesa promised for mmrca has 1000 tr..........still not ready/certainly not comparable to american aesa

if commonality and sanctions are issue then rafale should be the choice
 

shankarosky

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if mkized........cost of mig 35 will increase(so it might not remain cheapest)

operating cost should also be an important factor(fuel efficiency and maintainence issues)
russian planes are traditionally cheaper than competition but have higher life cycle cost.
russian zhuk ae aesa demonstrated at aero india 2007 had ~600 tr units
but aesa promised for mmrca has 1000 tr..........still not ready/certainly not comparable to american aesa

--- the term higher life cycle cost is a myth propagated by expensive aircraft manufacturers when they cannot beat aflanker on specifications and cost

life cycle cost is not just fuel cost but also the capital cost of aquisition, cost of spares,cost of expert technical help here in india

Mig 35 scores high on all counts

about fuel consumption as of now we do not have any figures for f-18 or rafale -so why do you assume mig 35 is afuel guzzler ?
 

AJSINGH

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India should also acquire more AWACS ...maybe 3 are not enough...i am not saying the huge AWACS but smaller version like that on brazilian embrarer ...aircraft ...for samll area ..for example north western sector

also s-21 is good sam system but expensive but it is worth buying s
 

AJSINGH

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also member should know that whichever combat aircraft IAF buys for MMRCA competition ...the modifcations will cost extra..suppose we decide to buy SH ...the external pods will cost extra..the NATo weaponry ...external EW system ..spares .etc etc ..so its not only the case of Mig 35 that the cost will increase if it is converted into MKI
 

AJSINGH

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also i would as members here who support US weapons for MMRCA competition ..are they offering us their latest system ...because i can help to wonder Russia offer us the very new Mig35 ...also Su 35BM..but america is offering us SH and SV ...which they themselves would be phasing out in due course of time ..if America really wants to show that it is an ally of india ...then they should offer us F-35 lightning II
russia on the contrary if offering us their latest technology everytime...mig 35 now later PAK FAGA
 

Dark Sorrow

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also i would as members here who support US weapons for MMRCA competition ..are they offering us their latest system ...because i can help to wonder Russia offer us the very new Mig35 ...also Su 35BM..but america is offering us SH and SV ...which they themselves would be phasing out in due course of time ..if America really wants to show that it is an ally of india ...then they should offer us F-35 lightning II
russia on the contrary if offering us their latest technology everytime...mig 35 now later PAK FAGA
SH will remain in service in USN for atleast next 20 years. Cold war is over and even US will not go on shopping spree for fifth generation aircraft for all their services.
 

AJSINGH

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our MMRCA aircraft has to serve IAF for the next 40 years ...so since USA will phase out SH in next 20 years..how will we get upgrades for the remaining 20 years
 

s_bman

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our MMRCA aircraft has to serve IAF for the next 40 years ...so since USA will phase out SH in next 20 years..how will we get upgrades for the remaining 20 years

russians are not even inducting mig 35...............does that mean we will have to fund upgrades
 

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