Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[johnj]

Hence SAMs come into equation. Pakis will be facing s400 shadow inside their own aur space and a formidable wall of akash , Barak, qrsam etc.
Chinese will face all these plus Himalayas terrain and disadvantage of lifting off from tibet .

SAM is good against high flying threats.
FYI- in these case also both Pak having little advantage & chinese huge advantage.
Common advantage - long range vlo cruise missile, large no.of stand off weapons & sead/dead weapons
Pak- they also having long range sam.
Chinese- large no.of long range sam, huge amount of longe range weapons. air launched long range weapons, j20, stealth drone, high altitude site for sam. Himalayan terrain is not a issue for chinese, but for us.
Lifting off from tibet- they are having better lifting capability compared to us, and better infra also.
They are having large no.of heavy lifters & tankers.
According to IA - chinese holding better areas in ladakh [plains] and some high altitude area also. Chinese already shown they can bring huge military into lac in a short period of time, and each day they are improving their infra.
Chinese trying to match US & india trying not to fall behind pakistan.
Pakistan is a real threat, they don't care about their country or economy or people, if they think attacking india is good, then they will do it, on the other hand chinese export 100b$+ items to india with out any import pressure, and they never do anything stupid to damage their exports.
Falling sqn strength is a major issue for iaf. Iaf also lacks cas aircraft - retired all mig27.

 

[Arpuster]

Engine Prototype ?? Prototype already exists - ge414, ej200, m88. 6 billion+ for ip & hot section. 2 billion+ for limited hot section.

Those are not prototypes but foreign engines with lesser capabilities than what we desire. I was talking about prototype of 110 kN engine built by Indian industry in colabration with foreign OEM.

IAF never fund a huge project when their sqn strength falling below paf.
there is no indian partners.
No investment.
No future.
Its a dead project.
Only thing left is goi, goi can choose to fight or surrender - either pay or die.
FYI- goi stick with diplomacy - pass jv to next gov
GOI motto- why spend $$ on R&D if you can buy entire things with that $$ - old habit die hard & french only taking advantage of it.

That post of mine was just what I think can be done. Whatever IAF will do or not and in whichever way is upto them. And services do invest in R&D projects alongwith capital acquisitions and they plan according. Similarly GOI has always been investing in various R&D. Even Kaveri engine is being funded for development in two versions: one dry kaveri for RPSA/Ghatak and one redesigned wet version (50/76 kN) for FUFA. HAL taking up HTSE-1200 & HTFE-25 is also backed by MoD since HAL comes under MoD.

Better go for f35 & finish kaveri with russian help, & use knowledge gained from it to develop further instead of spending 15 billion $$ in 5th gen engine. One more word - globalisation - a tool to kill future tech R&D outside US & its allies - means 5th gen engine R&D == 5 billion $ lose & 2x jv == 10 billion $ lose.
Right now there is no advantage of sharing engine tech to india, insisted french, us, uk just play with india & at the end goi forced to buy jets & engine from them.

Russian help is not enough in Kaveri coz they dont produce the jet engines of quality which we aim. Even in Kaveri, IAFs requirements are of engine matching the western standards for similar type. It seems we are almost there in Kaveri.
Just like you said better finish Kaveri and use its knowledge for AMCA engine, similar argument can be made for why go for F-35, finish Tejas mk2 and go for AMCA which would be easier than making latest gen Jet engine. I also wish we successfully create AMCA engine by going alone rather than depending on any foreign OEM but it may be possible take lots of time and we will remain dependent on US for F 414 for a long time.
Regarding producing engines via JV, such methods have proven successful for France where even after getting full tech transfer of jet engine from British, they keep getting lots of newer tech from British for jet engines by forming JVs and finally became fully independent. If done intelligently, we can extract the maximum out of even this foreign collaboration and within time.

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars It's Coming.

 

[binayak95]

Ya'll Nibbiars It's Coming.

View attachment 198559

It better.

 

[jai jaganath]

Ya'll Nibbiars It's Coming.

View attachment 198559

Billa ji astrologer bhi hai

 

[Haldilal]

It better.

Billa ji astrologer bhi hai

Ya'll Nibbiars Chal Phut.

 

[johnj]

Those are not prototypes but foreign engines with lesser capabilities than what we desire. I was talking about prototype of 110 kN engine built by Indian industry in colabration with foreign OEM.

Those are the prototype they are offering, not td. There is no 110kn prototype, but highly upgraded current version.

That post of mine was just what I think can be done. Whatever IAF will do or not and in whichever way is upto them. And services do invest in R&D projects alongwith capital acquisitions and they plan according. Similarly GOI has always been investing in various R&D. Even Kaveri engine is being funded for development in two versions: one dry kaveri for RPSA/Ghatak and one redesigned wet version (50/76 kN) for FUFA. HAL taking up HTSE-1200 & HTFE-25 is also backed by MoD since HAL comes under MoD.

You totally confused with funding, all those fund comes from gov & producer not armed forces. Its true armed forces also spend a little money- mainly with educational institutions & start up.

Russian help is not enough in Kaveri coz they dont produce the jet engines of quality which we aim. Even in Kaveri, IAFs requirements are of engine matching the western standards for similar type. It seems we are almost there in Kaveri.

Russia all ready helping in the development kaveri engine and we're not asking for tech.
IAF requirement is so high which forced ada to develop lca mk2 with ge414.

Just like you said better finish Kaveri and use its knowledge for AMCA engine, similar argument can be made for why go for F-35, finish Tejas mk2 and go for AMCA which would be easier than making latest gen Jet engine. I also wish we successfully create AMCA engine by going alone rather than depending on any foreign OEM but it may be possible take lots of time and we will remain dependent on US for F 414 for a long time.

Its not just saying, but a reality not your fantasy or mine - what i written not my statement but a reality- statements of iaf, goi, ada etc,

Regarding producing engines via JV, such methods have proven successful for France where even after getting full tech transfer of jet engine from British, they keep getting lots of newer tech from British for jet engines by forming JVs and finally became fully independent. If done intelligently, we can extract the maximum out of even this foreign collaboration and within time.

We are not france, and there is a lots of successful jv in india also.
Both UK & france comes under eu and eu countries share a lots of things also give engine tech to other countries not big thing for UK. There is no foreign collaboration till date for 110kn engine development.
FYI- I can also capable of imagination, for ex. drdo & isro jointly working on hypersonic heavy space plane with intercontinental warfighting capability and capable of launching multiple intercontinental ballistic missile, - my bad, its not my imagination but a news article two decade ago,& i totally lacks imagination like these now a days. Any ways good luck with your imagination, & your theory is possible if you add - indian gdp growing at a rate of 20% for next 3 decade - to your imagination.
In future HAL manufacture all ge414s & also consider storing extra spares & parts as a precautions against sanctions. ADA developing lcamk2 and the knowledge gained will used in developing amca, kaveri engine development still going on in snail phase, and achieve full momentum if any breakthrough happens - funds for all these comes form gov, not from outside.

 

[Haldilal]

It better.

Billa ji astrologer bhi hai

Ya'll Nibbiars The F-35 Engine Running Too Hot Due To Under-Speccing. The Jet is not suitable for our environment, The Isreal are always under matinance due to this they can afford to due the Amerike subsidiary, we can't. The Engine lief is reduce due to this and affecting all the sub systems, sub par performances.

 

[jai jaganath]

The Pakistan Air Force is also updating its own fighter jets. In the future, it can maintain at least 150 4.5-generation fighter jets. No matter what people on this forum comment on JF-17block3, at least you need the Rafale fighter jet to win with a high probability.

Rafale is overkill for blk 3
Mk1a is much better than blk3

 

[jai jaganath]

I don’t want to argue. After all, you don’t know the specific flight envelopes of these two aircrafts, but the relevant radars, engines, missiles, and data of these two aircrafts are public. You can tell me why our MAK1A is absolutely ahead

Those data are available on internet for free u can check if u really want or go up fewpages in blk3 thread or tejas thread u will know
No one wants to bring back discussions again and again
Just thinking what all things built by chinese are far ahead is complex
Ofcourse u have many good products but jf-17 doesn't belong to that
But anyway it does its job and especially economical and u get capabilities wrt that

 

[DumbPilot]

I don’t want to argue. After all, you don’t know the specific flight envelopes of these two aircrafts, but the relevant radars, engines, missiles, and data of these two aircrafts are public. You can tell me why our MAK1A is absolutely ahead

Lol where is this radar or missile or electronic capability data you speak of? It doesn not exist at all in the public sphere

 

[jai jaganath]

Most of them are just idle guesses. I probably read it. No one has given detailed data on F404-400. Few people have even opened the official website of Israel Elbit, let alone KLJ-7A related data. , for the KLJ-7A, there is only one sentence, air cooling, the power is not high, that's all

There are various reports regarding ge f-404 performance an din service of many aircrafts
It's way better than rd-93
And I don't think there is any point of argument regarding power and performance or American over Russian
Coming to radar and sensors it's Chinese whose data are bare minimum especially regarding klj-7a
Not all are guesses
U will find better data about uttam radar which will in mk1a
Even the sensors of mk1a are gonna be Indian even aspj it's data is also available in internet

 

[jai jaganath]

Google is a great thing, too bad you can't use it

View attachment 198596

These are the pieces over which forum has discussed alot along with Chinese members

 

[NutCracker]

Hence SAMs come into equation. Pakis will be facing s400 shadow

We received only two ,right ?
both of which might go toward Chinese front.

Meanwhile Russia :

 

[jai jaganath]

Now that you have discussed it, let me ask you what the DBS sharpening ratio means. Since you are sure that the data of KLJ-7A is behind, please take out the data of 2052 to compare which data is behind.
As for UTTAM, things that don’t even have a shadow, what you can find now are just research and development goals, not actual performance

U are speaking As if no has Google to search or about dbs
But coming to the point dbs in layman language is about scanning which flying in high speeds forget that what we are speaking us wrt aircrafts performance taken all together along with engine specifications and cooling mechanism
Data regarding elta 2052 is very much available in net if u want to surf
Coming to uttam it's no more in rnd stage rather implementation especially for mk1a and it will have 800+ tr modules as per latest info might be wrong though
It's liquid cooled and have a sufficient power due to engine thus its performance will be far more better than air cooled ones
It's tracking will be better and as far info available I can track 100 targets rather 64 of 2052 so it performance infact got better than isrealis

 

[IndianHawk]

The Pakistan Air Force is also updating its own fighter jets. In the future, it can maintain at least 150 4.5-generation fighter jets. No matter what people on this forum comment on JF-17block3, at least you need the Rafale fighter jet to win with a high probability.

 

[DumbPilot]

Google is a great thing, too bad you can't use it

View attachment 198596

Bro this is a stupid way to discuss things because everyone wants to only put on the best looking data in these pamphlets..

These pamphlets don't include what happens when some ground unit is jamming away your radars. They are tailored to be shown in a controlled environment not a real one.

If you are going to compare squadron strength and the like, I'll take you up on that, but arguing over this
stuff is nonsense when none of us even know how what operational problems and behaviors these machines have

(And we should DEFINITELY trust a country like China which will only ever publish real, verified and true facts on their machines on random defense brochure templates!)

 

[NutCracker]

The Pakistan Air Force is also updating its own fighter jets. In the future, it can maintain at least 150 4.5-generation fighter jets. No matter what people on this forum comment on JF-17block3, at least you need the Rafale fighter jet to win with a high probability.

Only Blk3 will have mid-air refueling capacity and better radar because of enlarged airframe.

BLK1&2 are stuck in time capsule.
Let's see how many Blk3 Pakistan can afford.

 

[shiphone]

this is a block2...LOL
actually this is the very first SP with refueling probe, the maiden flight took place in 2015(?)

and this is also a BLK 2 standard bird ...the JF-17B trainer.

60 block 2 standard JF-17s with the refueling probe were manufactured for PAF. the remainings (including the MLUed Block1) don't have this capacity .

 

[prateikf]

At this point, like it or not, a G2G deal with US for a limited number of F 35 is the only option. It's costly but we can go for a lesser number say 50-60. The quantity required would be compensated by quality. The US MIC has the ability to complete the order at a short notice and unlike rafale the production lines are not choked with orders. AMCA in the mean time should be fully supported but we can not afford to wait till 2035-40 to replenish our squadron strength. We would be sitting ducks in that period.

Yes I agree. But will the US agree to sell F-35 to an user of S-400? They didn’t with Turkey and it’s highly unlikely they would sell it to us. Had we not bought S-400 and instead asked USA to provide us with F-35 I am sure they would have agreed. Regarding the cost it’s cheaper than the Rafale due to large orders and economies of scale.