Corvus Splendens
Senior Member
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2021
- Messages
- 3,967
- Likes
- 25,924
Keep stalling till gov bends over and sanctions 150+ foreign birds
Indian Air Force: News & Discussions
- Thread starter cobra commando
- Start date
AUSTERLITZ
Regular Member
- Joined
- May 25, 2013
- Messages
- 484
- Likes
- 1,745
Dumb shits should just order 57 rafales then in straight govt to govt deal and pair it with engine development deal.
Brood Father
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2015
- Messages
- 3,544
- Likes
- 14,850
Here is the conversation between air chief marshal and and government
ACM. Saar we need fighter planes
Gm. Ok , duly noted . What features you have in mind as we are planning to build in house capabilities as well for fighter aircrafts.
ACM. Saar we need 4th gen plane with 5th gen technology and can be expanded to 6th gen technology and still have some space left for 7th technology
Gm . Ok duly noted , ab agle saal ana , is saal ka budget poora ho chuka hai .
''Industry sources expressed the view that reduced numbers in a global tender make it more difficult to meet stringent Make in India and transfer of technology requirements profitably. “A cutback in numbers by half makes it more challenging to execute a complex tender like this one. Numbers provide viability, cost-effectiveness and affordability,” an observer reasoned.''
Wastage of money and human effort. Better buy 3 sqn of rafale by paying a premium without tot and make in india.
vishnugupt
Senior Member
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2013
- Messages
- 2,629
- Likes
- 11,190
Possibly 36 more Rafales (Possibly 1 more squadron for Navy) by intergovernmental deal. This is something doable unlike 5th and 6th generation technologies into a 4th generation aircraft.
This deal might be last chance for India to have an indigenous aero engine with the help of Safran. I don't believe RR is going to offer us anything.
IAF need to work on MWF seriously with DRDO. Having look down attitude towards DRDO will leave IAF in serious problem in coming days. IAF need to become proactive and defend MWF from all negativity.
No engine jv, no interest from IAF. No country consider engine tech jv for 57 jets, and GoI needed additional funds. Dassault order is full for next few years, and when it take 4-7 years to conclude a deal and 10 years for engine development. Good news for French, US, Israel.
IN consider SH in this case, low cost, IAC 2 uses US tech, teddy and SH share common engine.
Cheran
Senior Member
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2019
- Messages
- 8,894
- Likes
- 78,040
I remember reading that Rafale factories are "busy" due to orders from Indonesia (42) & UAE (80).
Gov to Gov Deal, for engine tech, for 120 engine order, not going to happen, may be a small luck with RR, and when AMCA going to fly, 2040 ? We already too late in concluding jv, no more delay, IAF can buy more mk1A.
That's why I used premium [extra money] with out tot, French gov consider their own line.
Megalomaniac
Regular Member
- Joined
- May 10, 2019
- Messages
- 96
- Likes
- 313
I told in this forum before that MRFA is a farce. It will continue until Tejas Mk. 2 becomes ready for induction. MRFA will either be cancelled or they will purchase a very small quantity of fighters. Major focus is on MWF.
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2021
- Messages
- 12,835
- Likes
- 34,526
Iaf hai ye , ye kisi ka nai sunti hai
Megalomaniac
Regular Member
- Joined
- May 10, 2019
- Messages
- 96
- Likes
- 313
Easy Pizzy Lemon Squeezy
WolfPack86
Senior Member
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2015
- Messages
- 10,507
- Likes
- 16,955
India Cuts Back World’s Largest Fighter Jet Procurement Programme By Half
The Indian Air Force (IAF) is cutting down its largest fighter jet procurement programme by half and has indicated the likelihood of a change in the procurement model to one which is more acceptable to foreign suppliers for compliance to Make in India requirements in view of the reduced numbers.
BW Businessworld has learnt from highly placed sources that the estimated USD 20 billion Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA) procurement programme for 114 foreign jets is being shrunk to acquisition of 57 jets through a global competition.
The original proposal to make these jets in India under the ambitious Strategic Partnership (SP) Model is set to be dumped and the shrunken programme is likely to be rebooted under the Buy Global (Make in India) category of the Defence Acquisition Procedure 2020, sources elaborated. All the 57 fighters will be made in India with transfer of technology from the foreign OEM to an Indian company.
The cutback is mainly on account of the Government’s Aatmanirbhar Bharat (self-reliant India) policy directive to minimize Defence imports and build up a domestic Defence Industrial complex instead to meet military requirements. A renewed drive is afoot to commit most of the capital budget for Defence modernization to domestic sources. Even the Indian Navy requirement for imported deck-borne fighters was reduced from 57 to 26. The cutback on the MRFA and the Navy fighters is both an opportunity and challenge for domestic industry to make up the numbers.
The timeline for issuance of a global tender for acquisition of 57 jets is end-2022, it is learnt. The IAF had approached the global market with an RFI for 114 fighters in 2018. Responses were received by Air Headquarters on behalf of Lockheed Martin’s F-21, Boeing’s F-15EX and F/A-18 Super Hornet, Dassault’s Rafale, Saab’s Gripen, the European consortium’s Eurofighter, Sukhoi’s S-35 and MiG’s MiG-35.
India’s record at procurement of a foreign fighter through global competition is tortuous. The MRFA’s predecessor, the Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) programme for 126 fighters, was aborted after a decade-long procurement process threw up Dassault’s Rafale as the winner but failed to secure a contractual agreement. In 2016, India went in for a direct purchase of 36 Rafale fighters as an emergency procurement in a Government-to-Government deal with France.
A foreign fighter is critical to the IAF’s plan to peg its numbers to about 35 squadrons over the next 15 years. A proven foreign combat jet is also meant to ensure interim reliability and assurance till the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft variants and the futuristic Fifth Generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) mature and stabilize. The authorized fighter strength for the IAF is 42 squadrons, which IAF Chief Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari acknowledged will not be realized in the foreseeable future.
The IAF’s anxiety to ensure minimum force levels is also on account of the impending retirement of its legacy jets comprising the Mirage-2000, MiG-29 and the Jaguars fleets over the next decade. The residual squadrons of the MiG-21 will also be out by 2024.
Two new Rafale squadrons are operational. Delivery of 83 LCA Mk 1A fighters will commence in 2024. The LCA Mk-2 and AMCA are expected in a decade in a best-case scenario. The MRFA was envisaged to mitigate the gap of fighter squadrons and combat capability. But the IAF, which was hoping for six fallback MRFA squadrons, will now have to work around three.
Industry sources expressed the view that reduced numbers in a global tender make it more difficult to meet stringent Make in India and transfer of technology requirements profitably. “A cutback in numbers by half makes it more challenging to execute a complex tender like this one. Numbers provide viability, cost-effectiveness and affordability,” an observer reasoned.
The other big concern is that the SP model - a key reform to kickstart the emergence of a private sector Defence Industrial complex by reserving one big procurement per category as a one-time measure - has failed to take off. The Naval Utility Helicopter (NUH) programme – the first under the SP Model - has been dumped. There’s little progress in the Project 75 (I) submarine programme, and now the re-categorisation of the MRFA is a body blow. This initiative is likely to head back to the drawing board, insiders reckon.
The recategorisation of the MRFA means that the tender would be awarded to a foreign OEM, which would deliver the Make in India element through an Indian partner of its choice. Under the SP Model, an Indian company would have been the prime, with the option to choose a technical collaborator from among a pool of foreign OEMs shortlisted by the Ministry of Defence.
www.businessworld.in
The Indian Air Force (IAF) is cutting down its largest fighter jet procurement programme by half and has indicated the likelihood of a change in the procurement model to one which is more acceptable to foreign suppliers for compliance to Make in India requirements in view of the reduced numbers.
BW Businessworld has learnt from highly placed sources that the estimated USD 20 billion Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA) procurement programme for 114 foreign jets is being shrunk to acquisition of 57 jets through a global competition.
The original proposal to make these jets in India under the ambitious Strategic Partnership (SP) Model is set to be dumped and the shrunken programme is likely to be rebooted under the Buy Global (Make in India) category of the Defence Acquisition Procedure 2020, sources elaborated. All the 57 fighters will be made in India with transfer of technology from the foreign OEM to an Indian company.
The cutback is mainly on account of the Government’s Aatmanirbhar Bharat (self-reliant India) policy directive to minimize Defence imports and build up a domestic Defence Industrial complex instead to meet military requirements. A renewed drive is afoot to commit most of the capital budget for Defence modernization to domestic sources. Even the Indian Navy requirement for imported deck-borne fighters was reduced from 57 to 26. The cutback on the MRFA and the Navy fighters is both an opportunity and challenge for domestic industry to make up the numbers.
The timeline for issuance of a global tender for acquisition of 57 jets is end-2022, it is learnt. The IAF had approached the global market with an RFI for 114 fighters in 2018. Responses were received by Air Headquarters on behalf of Lockheed Martin’s F-21, Boeing’s F-15EX and F/A-18 Super Hornet, Dassault’s Rafale, Saab’s Gripen, the European consortium’s Eurofighter, Sukhoi’s S-35 and MiG’s MiG-35.
India’s record at procurement of a foreign fighter through global competition is tortuous. The MRFA’s predecessor, the Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) programme for 126 fighters, was aborted after a decade-long procurement process threw up Dassault’s Rafale as the winner but failed to secure a contractual agreement. In 2016, India went in for a direct purchase of 36 Rafale fighters as an emergency procurement in a Government-to-Government deal with France.
A foreign fighter is critical to the IAF’s plan to peg its numbers to about 35 squadrons over the next 15 years. A proven foreign combat jet is also meant to ensure interim reliability and assurance till the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft variants and the futuristic Fifth Generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) mature and stabilize. The authorized fighter strength for the IAF is 42 squadrons, which IAF Chief Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari acknowledged will not be realized in the foreseeable future.
The IAF’s anxiety to ensure minimum force levels is also on account of the impending retirement of its legacy jets comprising the Mirage-2000, MiG-29 and the Jaguars fleets over the next decade. The residual squadrons of the MiG-21 will also be out by 2024.
Two new Rafale squadrons are operational. Delivery of 83 LCA Mk 1A fighters will commence in 2024. The LCA Mk-2 and AMCA are expected in a decade in a best-case scenario. The MRFA was envisaged to mitigate the gap of fighter squadrons and combat capability. But the IAF, which was hoping for six fallback MRFA squadrons, will now have to work around three.
Industry sources expressed the view that reduced numbers in a global tender make it more difficult to meet stringent Make in India and transfer of technology requirements profitably. “A cutback in numbers by half makes it more challenging to execute a complex tender like this one. Numbers provide viability, cost-effectiveness and affordability,” an observer reasoned.
The other big concern is that the SP model - a key reform to kickstart the emergence of a private sector Defence Industrial complex by reserving one big procurement per category as a one-time measure - has failed to take off. The Naval Utility Helicopter (NUH) programme – the first under the SP Model - has been dumped. There’s little progress in the Project 75 (I) submarine programme, and now the re-categorisation of the MRFA is a body blow. This initiative is likely to head back to the drawing board, insiders reckon.
The recategorisation of the MRFA means that the tender would be awarded to a foreign OEM, which would deliver the Make in India element through an Indian partner of its choice. Under the SP Model, an Indian company would have been the prime, with the option to choose a technical collaborator from among a pool of foreign OEMs shortlisted by the Ministry of Defence.
India Cuts Back World’s Largest Fighter Jet Procurement Programme By Half
IAF’s global Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft Programme shrinks from 114 fighters to 57 amidst focus on domestic industry, , iaf, MRFA, lockheed martin, boeing, dassault, eurofighter, saab, sukhoi, mig
HawkisRight
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 30, 2020
- Messages
- 2,033
- Likes
- 13,376
Kya toh bakchodi he in logo ka...
vidhwanshak
Senior Member
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2021
- Messages
- 2,164
- Likes
- 9,589
Narasimh
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2016
- Messages
- 1,070
- Likes
- 3,679
These hit jobs have to be curtailed. Though I don't want free speech to be the target but I think there should be some legislation that people who are writing these pieces on defence equipment should be made accountable. Maybe allow mandatory cross questioning by citizens
School teacher
Regular Member
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2022
- Messages
- 20
- Likes
- 96
Comparing weight of BVR missiles
R77 weight - 190 kg
PL 12 weight - 180 kg
AIM 120 C5 AMRAAM - 152 kg
Astra mk1 - 154 kg
How ll 50 kg ll be reduced ? What kind of technology will be used ?
By the way astra had taken down Banse target drone at a range of 87 km which has a RCS of 0.5 meter sq - 1.4 meter sq
