Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Armand2REP]

IAF Pilots are dying because of actions of their predecessors & that's it!

They are dying because of HAL's shoddy workmanship.

 

[Icarus]

Russians always give outdated stuff to India n charge a lot. And yet many Indians see Russia as an ally.

 

[Bleh]

They are dying because of HAL's shoddy workmanship.

Reeeeeaaaaally?!
How come even a single one of the 3 dozen Tejas including prototypes have never crashed in 4500 hours!? ..while IAF started with 80 Mig-29 is down to 62 & 60 Mirages down to 48, in 2-3 decades? ..while Jas-39 Gripen with same F-404 engine loved to dive into the ground?
(Anyone has data on origin of the 10 Sukhoi-30 is that crashed?)



Soviet Mig 21 crashed in droves, so did HAL built ones.
And as i pointed out, nowadays the crashing of Mig-21 & Jaguar crashes have reduced drastically probably due to more available with of spare parts uder this government...

 

[nongaddarliberal]

They are swift & sleek... They're too outdated for intense climbing/turning WVR at this age. But if mounted with 4 BVR missiles they can still intercept just as effectively as Mig-29s, especially when working linked with Su-30 & AWACS!

This jugaad mentality needs to go. Yes, technically you can take any old jet and fit in new electronics and missiles. But that's not an excuse.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Russians always give outdated stuff to India n charge a lot. And yet many Indians see Russia as an ally.

They sell us everything that they sell to their own military. We are the ones insisting on operating 60 year old Russian systems when they themselves retired it.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

We should have started at the bottom back in the '70s when IAF killed the success of Marut.

Exactly this is what lt gen VK saxsena . (Retd) said in some rajya sabha tv security scan

But i didn't wanted to comment about HAL Marut because i thought that would have lead to more confusion. But you are right we were way ahead of Chinese we had a proper designed brid.

IAF also tried to make sure tejas have the same fate which HAL marut had.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Chinks fly that J-7, Israel flies Mirage-5 copy Kfrir! Mig-21 Bison will be able to fire R-77 just as well as Sukhoi-30 (forget the jet's radar, firing from beyond 50km is a waste).
And frankly without increasing the order of Tejas FOC, IAF does have any other option until after 2020.

Also, indigenous jets weren't available in the '90s & Tejas is just getting ready... The follow-up of Hf-24 Marut called Advanced Strike Aircraft (Hf-73) proposal shouldn't have been throttled in favour of Jaguars, definitely not completely discarded. Had they kept backing the platform until it measured Indian Aerospace industry would have been much better position today & their Pilots would need to keep dying on outdated trash.
Just look at where its latest design reached!
View attachment 38892 View attachment 38893 View attachment 38894 View attachment 38895
Any pilot dying today are dying because of the stupidity & short sightedness of all GOI, IAF & HAL.

The design seems amazing. I didn't even know we were planning on building this fighter.

 

[Bhadra]

I wonder why morally ethically high armed forces had to buy Spike despite it failed multiple test. Nuff said.

Because it was required for LC where conditions are very different from the furnace called Jaisalmer. Spike had problems in high temperature not in normal or cold temperature...

And yes, Army as also MoD is very well equipped and thousand times more wiser than you to take decision. Alas ! they did not ask you....

 

[Bleh]

This jugaad mentality needs to go. Yes, technically you can take any old jet and fit in new electronics and missiles. But that's not an excuse.

Jugaad is an Indian thing!
Mig-21 working with Su-30 have shot down F-15 & F-16 with BVR in joint exercises. This way India can make use of them... now that they are staying until 2025-27. They won't be crashing of engine failure while subsonic level-flight. That way BVR combat is safer for it.

The design seems amazing. I didn't even know we were planning on building this fighter.

https://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/hf-24-marut.22755/page-4#post-1581732

 

[Shashwat]

^^ Stop being the judge and label like you do. We'll see how many heads will roll in Pilatus and AW scam,.

Wow, now you are vying for Mod, I though you said they are all scum if not in Armed force. If it weren't for MOD, all indegenous projects would have culled.

Stop behaving like nut case and portraying as if Taejas are lined up on ground rotting and waiting for some one to fly those.

Down to 24 Sqns who will give their money and fund experiments that always fail. The priority has to make up strength and then only look towards the domestic marvel.

Instead of having a serious thought about it and appreciating how the braves of this country fly the coffins in spite of all odds, you have the gumption of casting aspersions on them and their organisation.

Because it was required for LC where conditions are very different from the furnace called Jaisalmer. Spike had problems in high temperature not in normal or cold temperature...

And yes, Army as also MoD is very well equipped and thousand times more wiser than you to take decision. Alas ! they did not ask you....

Are you suffering from halitosis? Why every word comes from you mouth have a stench of snob and abuse? Is it from the very beginning or after you joined the rank?

 

[Bhadra]

This is what happens when a corrupt MOD is in power because of them and some senior officers we have to fly that junk.
Our brave pilots have to risk there life. Who is the culprit? IAF previous government (who did many deals for corruption) and HAL.

IAF never tried to buy tejas always tried that program just stays on paper only. Treated tejas worst than adopted baby.

The point I'm making is because it's reality sir nothing else. And was spoken By iaf officials only.
IAF will today reject tejas just for there love for foreign systems if congress is in power but modi government is constantly forcing them to use indigenous systems.

What Most of the Defence experts (even from armed forces) say? They say lack of INDIGENOUS SYSTEM IS OUR BIGGEST WEAKNESS.

The Indian Air Force has said that the domestically manufactured Tejas Light Combat Aircraft is not fit enough to protect the Indian skies.

The IAF said the Tejas is far behind its competitors like the JAS 39 Gripen manufactured by the Swedish aerospace company Saab and the US made F-16 manufactured by Lockheed Martin, sources were quoted as saying by India Today Friday.

The IAF made a presentation to the government to explain why Tejas alone can't meet India's requirements.

National Security Adviser Ajit Doval is understood to have raised the issue after the government asked the IAF to scrap its plans to acquire foreign made single engine fighters and go for the Indian made fighters only.

The IAF was earlier reluctant to buy the LCA but due to continuous pressure by Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar, the Air Force had agreed to buy around 80 more planes from Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, making it into a success story.

who so ever is culprit, let us stop blaming the brave flyers and their fine airforce.. They fly by the line of duty and not by choice in a flying club..

Period...

 

[Bleh]

@nongaddarliberal
Also, let's not one-sidedly blame just the Mig-21... It was a trainer aircraft and definitely could have crash due to pilot error.
IAF's own 2010 enquiry found 45% of crashes to be due to pilot error. Even brand new C-130 have been crashed, not just flying coffins.

On top of that they were Soviet product assembled by HAL & seen atleast 3 decade of sorties. Probably gave out trying to do another hard manoeuver! The role of a BVR sniper would suit Mig-21 well until retirement... Leave WVR to Su-30 & Mig-29, an interceptor can stick to BVR!
Their rate of crashing is lowest ever right now, in all the history of HAL built Mig-21 & Soviet ones before them & this way it'll go down even more.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

@nongaddarliberal
Also, let's not one-sidedly blame just the Mig-21... It was a trainer aircraft and definitely could have crash due to pilot error.
IAF's own 2010 enquiry found 45% of crashes to be due to pilot error. Even brand new C-130 have been crashed, not just flying coffins.

On top of that they were Soviet product assembled by HAL & seen atleast 3 decades of sorties. Probably gave out trying to do another hard manoeuver! The role of a BVR sniper would suit Mig-21 well until retirement. Leave WVR to Su-30 & Mig-29.

Could have just produced a lot more Tejas Mk 1's and we wouldn't be making such a decision.

 

[Bleh]

Could have just produced a lot more Tejas Mk 1's and we wouldn't be making such a decision.

Could.. would.. should.. Face facts man, it's not happening.

IAF won't (maybe can't afford to) extend the FOC order beyond 16 & will instead keep crashing vintages.

Mark 1A won't be ready until 2021, which means HAL has no need for 2 assembly lines right now.

Present rate is 4 Tejas under construction, other 12 next year. It will be over squadron per year from 2020.

Mark1A will start coming in at that rate from 2021-22 & you'll be hearing about these crashes for another decade.

So right now, pray hard that HAL bags the Malaysian order... 36 should be done in 3 years max. on their 3rd line.

 

[aarav]

Mig 21's built in 80s are in end of their technical life ,these crashes would lead to criticism of IAF and beration might lead to signing 83mk1a order ASAP, it is their fault that antonov, mig21s,mig27,jags are still flying when the OEM have long retired these platforms, when we have Tejas mk1a and C295 options on the table and the deal just need to be signed,and MMRCA 2.0 is just another bullshit with no AoN on sight ,we hope the next ACM RKS bhaduria signs the long pending deals provides the cushion in the short to mid term for IAF

 

[Bhadra]

Are you suffering from halitosis? Why every word comes from you mouth have a stench of snob and abuse? Is it from the very beginning or after you joined the rank?

you raised that question to cast your dirty aspirations as if no one knows why one should buy Spikes ? Do not you know that Indian missile prject is on table since 1968 ???????????

It is you who did not know ? If that is so you should be satisfied and thank me rather than retorting..
That means your original intention was suspect or rather foul...

 

[Armand2REP]

How come even a single one of the 3 dozen Tejas including prototypes have never crashed in 4500 hours!?

Has it achieved FOC or does it still have restrictions?

 

[Bleh]

.......................................................

Has it achieved FOC or does it still have restrictions?

 

[Armand2REP]

.......................................................View attachment 38908

Of course you have no response because you know that most of the flight hours are trials which are far less rigorous than active units with clearance for the full flight envelop. Nothing gets flown harder than a trainer.

My opinion of HAL is no different than yours of OFB. There is a very good reason Dassault doesn't want HAL anywhere near Rafale.

 

[Bleh]

My opinion of HAL is no different than yours of OFB.

I would say something like how test-pilots pushed officially 6g capable Tejas prototypes to beyond 8g... But after that last comment, your "expert opinion" doesn't matter anymore.