Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[hit&run]

Past incident to criticize IAF.

Oh I'm sorry next time I'll make sure to give them a pass when they crash an other CDS down the line or end up with the same squadron strength as pakistan. This bankrupt nation today has more AWACS than us which are an extremely important component in air warfare by the way.

You dont see me nitpicking the navy because one can see the effort that goes into the shipbuilding industry.

My orginal point yesterday was how IAF is unable to fill up numbers while losing jets in peacetime attrition.

Now peacetime attrition is fine. What is not fine is you still flying with cold war era relics and not having a suitable strategy to replace them.

People here are free to ignore the very obvious signs of corruption if it helps them cope but the condition of AF is there for everyone to see.

That is fine.

I disagree with the accusation of corruption without substantiating it.

India with its economic strength is doing quite well as far as IAF is concerned. On the contrary, in my understanding, I wouldn't bet my money on Indian Navy. The reason I am mentioning it here is to establish that I am not here to compulsively defend forces.

 

[NutCracker]

Pathetic . It randomly flew for 100 km.
Isn't it dangerously ignorant act from the two su-30 trainee pilots to eject without bring aircraft to a lower height from where it could crash in some safe forest area.
Can FCS/Mission computer be ground controlled , or can it differentiate between forest and populated area .


FYI that account belongs to a disgusting Chandigarh lobbyist. His main audiance is Pakistani.

 

[hit&run]

For other readers especially outsiders who may lurk here occasionally.


The 27 February 2019 IAF-PAF air skirmish and its fallout must not be seen from tactical, strategic and technical analysis points of view without considering the underlying doctrine that was behind Balakot Air Strikes by IAF that killed 300 specialized terror trainers operating from a safe hilltop building 70 KM inside Pakistani territory.

The selling point of that mission was that it will not result in further escalation. The mission objective was to hit the heart and brain of the Pakistani terror enterprise. The cardinal feature of post Balakot air strike statement by IAF was that this attack was not meant for the Pakistan's Defence Establishment or its facilities or forces or assets.

The expected Pakistani reaction was all accounted for and considered before the Balakot attack and the established Air Defence Grid, Air Combat Patrol, assigned Air Force strength at key frontiers and other ground force defensive or offensive grids were found to be adequate to thwart any Pakistani transgression.

India achieved its military or Air force objective and started syncing in that which included countering an internal attack from 0.5 front led by Congress-I and its subsidiaries like AAP etc.

To be continued................................................

 

[hit&run]

Pathetic . It randomly flew for 100 km.
Isn't it dangerously ignorant act from the two su-30 trainee pilots to eject without bring aircraft to a lower height from where it could crash in some safe forest area.
Can FCS/Mission computer be ground controlled , or can it differentiate between forest and populated area .


FYI that account belongs to a disgusting Chandigarh lobbyist. His main audiance is Pakistani.

Pathetic?

Maybe they couldn't ascertain the height due to system failure. The decison to eject could have been cockpit becoming unbreathble or too hot to sustain any further flight.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Heck their satellite images on Google is also very clear

They even predict their weather very precisely...

If it's 6 pm for rain and 7 pm around it will stop. it will most probably happen that way. We will reach that stage one day.

 

[Javelin_Sam]

Pathetic . It randomly flew for 100 km.
Isn't it dangerously ignorant act from the two su-30 trainee pilots to eject without bring aircraft to a lower height from where it could crash in some safe forest area.
Can FCS/Mission computer be ground controlled , or can it differentiate between forest and populated area .


FYI that account belongs to a disgusting Chandigarh lobbyist. His main audiance is Pakistani.

The fire itself will be too hot for any pilot to sit there. After a collision we don't know what was the condition of the aircraft. Whether they were able to point it to where they want? Where the control surfaces intact or whether it was just a ball of metal flame flying with an engine still running?

 

[DumbPilot]

Pathetic . It randomly flew for 100 km.
Isn't it dangerously ignorant act from the two su-30 trainee pilots to eject without bring aircraft to a lower height from where it could crash in some safe forest area.
Can FCS/Mission computer be ground controlled , or can it differentiate between forest and populated area .


FYI that account belongs to a disgusting Chandigarh lobbyist. His main audiance is Pakistani.

They're trainees at TACDE, not trainee pilots(important difference). If I am not wrong, trainee TACDE pilots are the ones who were normally the best in their squadron, who then head to TACDE and then return back to enhance the community even further.

As for the ejection: we don't know how bad the Su-30MKI was damaged. Was it on fire? What was the altitude? Speed? Did the engine of the Su-30MKI still operate at ejection and continue to do so? If so, when did the engine stop functioning? If it was functioning, was it generating thrust?

The plane most likely did not fly randomly for 100km. As Javelin_Sam said - the pilot's only priority was to eject, because even a plane on fire will fly if the wing aerodynamics are not too terribly affected by deformity due to heat.

Regarding the FCS: The flight control computer simply decides how much input by the pilot can be translated to output in the yaw/elevator/rudder. If the computer decides the pilot is being too stupid, the computer will not allow any output - if it feels the aircraft is safe, it will allow as much output as the pilot desires. The computer decides the state of the aircraft by the AoA and pitot sensors, so it is not possible to do anything based on location(unless you're specially modifying the aircraft to do so), and neither can the plane be piloted from the ground unless there is specialized equipment in it.

 

[Gyyan]

Fighter Force: It Is Time For Quality, Not Quantity - Indian Aerospace and Defence Bulletin - News for aerospace and defence in India

The longer we wait the more porous our air defence remains and that won’t help the nation sleep well at night.

www.iadb.in

Lobbyists are the funniest bunch this guy isn't even thinking of mk2 tedbf Or AMCA he just want phoren super fifth gen Su-57 and ultra modern f21 (not to mistaken with f16 that our neighbor has) and finally the FA18 SH for navy and advices to not think of squadron strength but quality


The number of IAF squadrons is well below its authorised strength, but it is better to retire the ageing aircraft, and instead of replacing the squadrons number by number, go in for more advanced, lethal platforms

The Indian Air Force currently has a tad less than 30 squadrons with 1,960 assorted aircraft. The authorised strength is 42 squadrons, so that gives a good idea of how behind the curve we are.

But is it time to reassess this moan and groan mindset and opt for quality, rather than quantity.

Even as the INS Vikrant is launched officially with its 14 MiG 29s the question really is do we need all 42 squadrons or is it more valid to patrol twin borders with a lean, mean more relevant fleet even if the airframes are few. Obsolete aircraft are sitting ducks and scarcely intimidate either China or Pakistan.

We have to invest in aircraft that take on China’s J20 Mighty Dragons and Pakistan’s J10C Vigorous dragons given to them by China. Like for like.

Perhaps rather than try to build up what is a hotchpotch strength of multiple aircraft it is better to limit ourselves to the current 32 squadrons and stop worrying overly about being far below the 39-squadron danger mark.

In a world where UAVs, unmanned drones turning into delivery systems, missile domes like the S400 actually increasingly limit the multi-roles of fighters this is where some lateral thinking makes sense.

The neglect and the dependence on Russian equipment and the fall back on the aging MiG 21 even faster the 1971 conflict now threatens to reduce the strength even further. Next month one of the four remaining squadrons will be farmed off and the other three will end an era over the next three years. First inducted in 1963 the last 60 years, over 400 MiG-21s have crashed since then killing over 170 pilots, according to data from the Ministry of Defence. It is currently called the flying coffin for no fault of its own. Also creaking are the Jaguar and MiG 29 fighters which will have to be phased out. We could drop to as low as 26 active squadrons before building up with the induction of the 36 Rafales.

low maintenance demands as compared to the older Mcdonnell Douglas F 18 Hornets.

The F/A-18 Super Hornet is fully compliant with INS Vikramaditya and INS Vikrant aircraft carrier requisites, according to Boeing, the fighter jets will be able to operate from the slant deck and is hangar to take off capable. In August this year Boeing upped the ante and has made a very strong pitch with the carrier angle at its epicentre and that might just winkle past the post against the equally adept F-21.

In fighter planes, we have put our money on the Su30MK1s with 240 of the ordered 272 already in service. Our frontline needs to be given more muscle. Though the aircraft has had a troubled start, the Sukhoi Su-57 is a Russian-made fifth-generation multi-role fighter designed to destroy all types of air, ground and naval targets and Russia would be willing to give it to us. Add to this the F-21 specifically configured for the Indian Air Force, it strengthens India’s path to an advanced airpower future. Lockheed has truly offered to pull out all stops to get this deal through with India.

In its quite reasonable self-sell Lockheed Martin says: “The F-21 addresses the Indian Air Force’s unique requirements and integrates India into the world’s largest fighter aircraft ecosystem with the world’s pre-eminent defence company. Lockheed Martin and Tata would produce the F-21 in India. It is a new aircraft with a new cockpit display, a larger airframe spine to electronics and a new infrared sensor and refuelling probe.”

The longer we wait the more porous our air defence remains and that won’t help the nation sleep well at night.

Bikram Vohra is a Consulting Editor at IA&D

 

[skunk works]

The fire itself will be too hot for any pilot to sit there. After a collision we don't know what was the condition of the aircraft. Whether they were able to point it to where they want? Where the control surfaces intact or whether it was just a ball of metal flame flying with an engine still running?

The ejection will usually result in a big reduction in the weight of the aircraft, and also a change in the center of gravity due to 100s of pounds of pilot and seat weight suddenly leaving.
The 2 factors can combine to change the attitude of the aircraft, and even a falling aircraft can gain lift. Read up on the 'Cornrow Bomber' incident.

 

[skunk works]

They're trainees at TACDE, not trainee pilots(important difference). If I am not wrong, trainee TACDE pilots are the ones who were normally the best in their squadron, who then head to TACDE and then return back to enhance the community even further.



As for the ejection: we don't know how bad the Su-30MKI was damaged. Was it on fire? What was the altitude? Speed? Did the engine of the Su-30MKI still operate at ejection and continue to do so? If so, when did the engine stop functioning? If it was functioning, was it generating thrust?



The plane most likely did not fly randomly for 100km. As Javelin_Sam said - the pilot's only priority was to eject, because even a plane on fire will fly if the wing aerodynamics are not too terribly affected by deformity due to heat.



Regarding the FCS: The flight control computer simply decides how much input by the pilot can be translated to output in the yaw/elevator/rudder. If the computer decides the pilot is being too stupid, the computer will not allow any output - if it feels the aircraft is safe, it will allow as much output as the pilot desires. The computer decides the state of the aircraft by the AoA and pitot sensors, so it is not possible to do anything based on location(unless you're specially modifying the aircraft to do so), and neither can the plane be piloted from the ground unless there is specialized equipment in it.

TACDE, like TOP GUN, is modeled as a 'post graduate' school for pilots, so there aren't going to be any beginner pilots at TACDE.

 

[skunk works]

Fighter Force: It Is Time For Quality, Not Quantity - Indian Aerospace and Defence Bulletin - News for aerospace and defence in India

The longer we wait the more porous our air defence remains and that won’t help the nation sleep well at night.

www.iadb.in

Lobbyists are the funniest bunch this guy isn't even thinking of mk2 tedbf Or AMCA he just want phoren super fifth gen Su-57 and ultra modern f21 (not to mistaken with f16 that our neighbor has) and finally the FA18 SH for navy and advices to not think of squadron strength but quality


The number of IAF squadrons is well below its authorised strength, but it is better to retire the ageing aircraft, and instead of replacing the squadrons number by number, go in for more advanced, lethal platforms

The Indian Air Force currently has a tad less than 30 squadrons with 1,960 assorted aircraft. The authorised strength is 42 squadrons, so that gives a good idea of how behind the curve we are.

But is it time to reassess this moan and groan mindset and opt for quality, rather than quantity.

Even as the INS Vikrant is launched officially with its 14 MiG 29s the question really is do we need all 42 squadrons or is it more valid to patrol twin borders with a lean, mean more relevant fleet even if the airframes are few. Obsolete aircraft are sitting ducks and scarcely intimidate either China or Pakistan.

We have to invest in aircraft that take on China’s J20 Mighty Dragons and Pakistan’s J10C Vigorous dragons given to them by China. Like for like.

Perhaps rather than try to build up what is a hotchpotch strength of multiple aircraft it is better to limit ourselves to the current 32 squadrons and stop worrying overly about being far below the 39-squadron danger mark.

In a world where UAVs, unmanned drones turning into delivery systems, missile domes like the S400 actually increasingly limit the multi-roles of fighters this is where some lateral thinking makes sense.

The neglect and the dependence on Russian equipment and the fall back on the aging MiG 21 even faster the 1971 conflict now threatens to reduce the strength even further. Next month one of the four remaining squadrons will be farmed off and the other three will end an era over the next three years. First inducted in 1963 the last 60 years, over 400 MiG-21s have crashed since then killing over 170 pilots, according to data from the Ministry of Defence. It is currently called the flying coffin for no fault of its own. Also creaking are the Jaguar and MiG 29 fighters which will have to be phased out. We could drop to as low as 26 active squadrons before building up with the induction of the 36 Rafales.

low maintenance demands as compared to the older Mcdonnell Douglas F 18 Hornets.

The F/A-18 Super Hornet is fully compliant with INS Vikramaditya and INS Vikrant aircraft carrier requisites, according to Boeing, the fighter jets will be able to operate from the slant deck and is hangar to take off capable. In August this year Boeing upped the ante and has made a very strong pitch with the carrier angle at its epicentre and that might just winkle past the post against the equally adept F-21.

In fighter planes, we have put our money on the Su30MK1s with 240 of the ordered 272 already in service. Our frontline needs to be given more muscle. Though the aircraft has had a troubled start, the Sukhoi Su-57 is a Russian-made fifth-generation multi-role fighter designed to destroy all types of air, ground and naval targets and Russia would be willing to give it to us. Add to this the F-21 specifically configured for the Indian Air Force, it strengthens India’s path to an advanced airpower future. Lockheed has truly offered to pull out all stops to get this deal through with India.

In its quite reasonable self-sell Lockheed Martin says: “The F-21 addresses the Indian Air Force’s unique requirements and integrates India into the world’s largest fighter aircraft ecosystem with the world’s pre-eminent defence company. Lockheed Martin and Tata would produce the F-21 in India. It is a new aircraft with a new cockpit display, a larger airframe spine to electronics and a new infrared sensor and refuelling probe.”

The longer we wait the more porous our air defence remains and that won’t help the nation sleep well at night.

Bikram Vohra is a Consulting Editor at IA&D

Is he pitching his services to all sides? lol advertising both SU57 and F21.

 

[skunk works]

The fire itself will be too hot for any pilot to sit there. After a collision we don't know what was the condition of the aircraft. Whether they were able to point it to where they want? Where the control surfaces intact or whether it was just a ball of metal flame flying with an engine still running?

It is sub-optmial but it happens. we are lucky there were no casualties on the ground. In the case of a 1989 Soviet MIG-23 crash in Belgium, the plane flew 900 kilometers post-ejection before crashing into a house and killing a young man.

 

[DumbPilot]

TACDE, like TOP GUN, is modeled as a 'post graduate' school for pilots, so there aren't going to be any beginner pilots at TACDE.

Exactly. Only the best

 

[skunk works]

Exactly. Only the best

the only peeve i have is not with the pilots, its with these meme 'Court of Inquiry' that the IAF convenes after every incident. no reports are ever published, no lessons learned. no answers are given and the force hides behind 'operational secrecy vroooo' excuses.
its strange how western air forces are not affected by secrecy, when they publish full and detailed reports of every training accident. If any of you watch C.W. Lemmoine on YouTube, you will know how deep into detail they go.

 

[DumbPilot]

the only peeve i have is not with the pilots, its with these meme 'Court of Inquiry' that the IAF convenes after every incident. no reports are ever published, no lessons learned. no answers are given and the force hides behind 'operational secrecy vroooo' excuses.
its strange how western air forces are not affected by secrecy, when they publish full and detailed reports of every training accident. If any of you watch C.W. Lemmoine on YouTube, you will know how deep into detail they go.

I exactly know what you mean. As an avgeek it makes following IAF disappointing because there literally is nothing lol. You can see a lot of documents studying air power in various wars, I never seen that for the IAF(maybe haven't looked hard enough).

It's kinda sad that I know more about the USAF than the IAF

 

[bhramos]

Full Documentary on #India - #Japan Ex.
【#Russian fighter】 Sukhoi Su-30MKI flies to Japan for the first time!

 

[mist_consecutive]

 

[jai jaganath]

Pic of tweet

 

[pankaj nema]

Here F 16s are doing Multi directional
Attacks in an Exercise

Maybe , perhaps our M2K and SU 30 were also doing such a Manuever

 

[mist_consecutive]

Fighter jet accident over MP: 2 IAF pilots witnessed incident in air, senior officer leading probe

Two Indian Air Force (IAF) fighter aircraft crashed in Morena in Madhya Pradesh on Saturday. Wing Commander Sarathi flying the Mirage 2000 aircraft during the exercise lost his life in the crash.

aninews.in