Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

mist_consecutive

Selling Wuhan Fried Bats
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
1,065
Likes
6,807
Country flag
They should order additional C-295s for the Air Force to replace the garbage An-32 and then use offsets to get the Kaveri running.
Those 'garbage' an-32 have >50% of their airframe life left.
They weren't flown a lot due to problems.
What makes you conclude An-32 is garbage? It is an old-soviet-era plane, but it does its job perfectly well.
 

FalconSlayers

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2020
Messages
4,976
Likes
15,918
Country flag
What makes you conclude An-32 is garbage? It is an old-soviet-era plane, but it does its job perfectly well.
yes it does if it flies with ukrainian airforce not Indian airforce. The maintenance and spares of this aircraft have become scarce due to Russo-Ukrainian war in 2014.
 

LondonParisTokyo

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2015
Messages
879
Likes
1,960
Country flag
What makes you conclude An-32 is garbage? It is an old-soviet-era plane, but it does its job perfectly well.
An-32 is old as hell; C-295 can carry far more weight, is likely to be more fuel efficient, gives production opportunity to indigenous companies (jobs), and also is just a better overall plane. It's pretty obvious. I don't understand Russia worship on this forum.
 

Narasimh

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Messages
673
Likes
1,726
Country flag

If mk-1A is not signed in Aero India we should just drop that all hope (whatever is left) of being a self sufficient aerospace power. Not even thinking of the delivery here, just praying to sign the deal.
 

Tridev123

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
462
Likes
1,161
Country flag
An-32 is old as hell; C-295 can carry far more weight, is likely to be more fuel efficient, gives production opportunity to indigenous companies (jobs), and also is just a better overall plane. It's pretty obvious. I don't understand Russia worship on this forum.
Bro, I think we need to temper our language.
Granted most Soviet equipment was mostly functional and were designed with a communist mindset that viewed luxury as sinful.

But remember, it was the Soviet Union and later Russia which at least supplied us the weapons not the West. The West was courting Pakistan. So we really did not have a choice many a times.

Soviet /Russian weapons helped us stay independent for many decades after independence. Did Uncle Sam offer us the F16 when it was sold to Pakistan.

I agree that we were mostly license producing Soviet weapons and they did not help us become really independent in design.

But history should not be forgotten. The Soviets /Russians saved our asses many times in the past.

The situation has changed dramatically in the last 2 decades with the West now courting India instead of Pakistan. We are flooded with choices. In general Western weapons look better and are more user friendly and serviceable. This is because of capitalism and its way of thought. Russia has just started evolving into a capitalist society and probably will be able to match Western offerings in about a decade I guess.

We are free to choose better weapons if they are offered by the West. That's OK.
But to use adjectives like garbage or shit for the Soviet /Russian weapons is unnecessary. I think we can be grateful for support extended in the past and moderate our language.

The C295 is a fine piece of equipment. I hope we can indigenise it to the maximum extent.
 

LondonParisTokyo

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2015
Messages
879
Likes
1,960
Country flag
Bro, I think we need to temper our language.
Granted most Soviet equipment was mostly functional and were designed with a communist mindset that viewed luxury as sinful.

But remember, it was the Soviet Union and later Russia which at least supplied us the weapons not the West. The West was courting Pakistan. So we really did not have a choice many a times.

Soviet /Russian weapons helped us stay independent for many decades after independence. Did Uncle Sam offer us the F16 when it was sold to Pakistan.

I agree that we were mostly license producing Soviet weapons and they did not help us become really independent in design.

But history should not be forgotten. The Soviets /Russians saved our asses many times in the past.

The situation has changed dramatically in the last 2 decades with the West now courting India instead of Pakistan. We are flooded with choices. In general Western weapons look better and are more user friendly and serviceable. This is because of capitalism and its way of thought. Russia has just started evolving into a capitalist society and probably will be able to match Western offerings in about a decade I guess.

We are free to choose better weapons if they are offered by the West. That's OK.
But to use adjectives like garbage or shit for the Soviet /Russian weapons is unnecessary. I think we can be grateful for support extended in the past and moderate our language.

The C295 is a fine piece of equipment. I hope we can indigenise it to the maximum extent.
I am so sick of people saying "The Soviets saved us, the Soviets saved us!"

Do you know the story of HAL Marut and why it was tanked in favor of MiG-21? Give me a break. The rest of your post isn't even worth my energy to read. Temper my language? If you can read you will see that my language is mild
 

Tridev123

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
462
Likes
1,161
Country flag
I am so sick of people saying "The Soviets saved us, the Soviets saved us!"

Do you know the story of HAL Marut and why it was tanked in favor of MiG-21? Give me a break. The rest of your post isn't even worth my energy to read. Temper my language? If you can read you will see that my language is mild
OK, Smart Alec. Nobody can understand your anger. Your post is filled with wisdom.

What do you want to do?.
Gali dhena. OR talk on specifics. Give technical reasons why the An32 is garbage.

Instead of blandly using adjectives. Justify your stand.
Give figures on operating costs fuel consumption, availability factor, maintenance issues etc.

Maybe this is asking too much of you. Anybody can deride any weapon.
There are people who lampoon the F35. Tomorrow somebody will say that the F35 is garbage . Will you accept it. Without any technical data or technical comparison with other 5th generation planes.

Do you understand, if you provide reasons backed up by data and references it contributes to informed debate on the forum.

People will accept your arguments if they are valid. Simply letting off steam or farting is no substitute for informed debate.

If you still want to only use abuses and no other information to justify your stand.
Continue your childish rant.
 

Bhurki

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2018
Messages
1,217
Likes
1,472
>50% of airframe life. Weren't flown due to problems.

Do you even think about what you are about to say?
Problems can be fixed.. And they were.

The an-32 fleet is fine, and can be in service for several thousand hours of flight time.

It was 'garbage', now its probably 'usable', and India is no position to throw away these airframes.
 

LondonParisTokyo

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2015
Messages
879
Likes
1,960
Country flag
OK, Smart Alec. Nobody can understand your anger. Your post is filled with wisdom.

What do you want to do?.
Gali dhena. OR talk on specifics. Give technical reasons why the An32 is garbage.

Instead of blandly using adjectives. Justify your stand.
Give figures on operating costs fuel consumption, availability factor, maintenance issues etc.

Maybe this is asking too much of you. Anybody can deride any weapon.
There are people who lampoon the F35. Tomorrow somebody will say that the F35 is garbage . Will you accept it. Without any technical data or technical comparison with other 5th generation planes.

Do you understand, if you provide reasons backed up by data and references it contributes to informed debate on the forum.

People will accept your arguments if they are valid. Simply letting off steam or farting is no substitute for informed debate.

If you still want to only use abuses and no other information to justify your stand.
Continue your childish rant.
Ok, so you are going to pretend like I have made no points previous. Lol. C-295 has significantly increased payload capacity compared to An-32. C-295 can be manufactured domestically in the country; replacing An-32, which is in all fairness, a junk plane, streamlines the infrastructure required by the IAF and helps in ensuring that parts and spares can be sourced quickly and easily (because they are being... domestically manufactured). There is a high likelihood of increased fuel efficiency (I'm not sure if you know this but this will help reduce the import bill on oil). Simultaneously, there will be an offset clause, as there is with most of these types of deals. Those offsets can be used to hire engineers who can push Kaveri to completion. India will then be on its way to having a genuine, domestic engine.

Most likely though, dalals like you will continue to push for Russia worship and ancient history and nothing will come of these opportunities directly in front.

Edit: I just read through your whole post. Lol, you talk of the F-35. You may not know this, but the F-35, for as good as it is, is not a preferred weapon in the US due to it's extraordinarily high manufacturing and operating costs!
 

Tridev123

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
462
Likes
1,161
Country flag
Ok, so you are going to pretend like I have made no points previous. Lol. C-295 has significantly increased payload capacity compared to An-32. C-295 can be manufactured domestically in the country; replacing An-32, which is in all fairness, a junk plane, streamlines the infrastructure required by the IAF and helps in ensuring that parts and spares can be sourced quickly and easily (because they are being... domestically manufactured). There is a high likelihood of increased fuel efficiency (I'm not sure if you know this but this will help reduce the import bill on oil). Simultaneously, there will be an offset clause, as there is with most of these types of deals. Those offsets can be used to hire engineers who can push Kaveri to completion. India will then be on its way to having a genuine, domestic engine.

Most likely though, dalals like you will continue to push for Russia worship and ancient history and nothing will come of these opportunities directly in front.

Edit: I just read through your whole post. Lol, you talk of the F-35. You may not know this, but the F-35, for as good as it is, is not a preferred weapon in the US due to it's extraordinarily high manufacturing and operating costs!
According to you if anybody pushes for a fair debate instead of one sided biased view, he becomes a dalal. What are you doing here then. If you were pushing for an Indian platform it would be desirable. But here you are pushing for an imported platform. And you are not an dalal. What double standards.

This is not an Russia - West war. I am not canvassing for Russian weapons. I stand for Indian designed and Indian manufactured weapons.

And you have not made any detailed comparison of the An32 and C295. Most of your statements are general in nature.

I guess nobody can correct your blinkered view. If you can sleep better then you should rant against all Russian weapons.

Probably the Armed Forces should hire you as a consultant and junk all the Russian weapons in the inventory. Including the nuclear submarines.

Goodbye.
 

WolfPack86

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
8,767
Likes
12,522
Country flag
After Tejas, India moves ahead to procure more MiG-29s & Sukhois
India is now formally moving ahead to procure 21 MiG-29 and 12 Sukhoi-30MKI fighters from Russia, along with upgrades of their existing fleets, after the Cabinet Committee on Security approved the production of 83 indigenous Tejas jets last week.

For starters, the RFP (request for proposal) for the 21 MiG-29 fighters, whose bare airframes are lying in a mothballed condition in Russia since the later-1980s, will soon be issued to Russian state-run defence export arm Rosoboronexport, said defence sources on Sunday.

The acquisition of these MiG-29s at “relatively lower prices” will add to 59 such jets already with IAF. The 12 Sukhoi-30MKIs, in turn, will add to the 272 such jets already contracted from Russia for about $15 billion, with the bulk of them being licensed produced by Hindustan Aeronautics. IAF has so far inducted 268 of the original 272 Sukhois, with at least nine of them being lost in crashes over the years.

Along with the 83 new Tejas, which will be inducted in the January 2024-December 2028 timeframe under the Rs 46,898 crore deal cleared by the CCS, the additional MiG-29s and Sukhois are meant to stem the freefall in the number of IAF fighter squadrons.

With the progressive phasing out of the obsolete MiG-21s, MiG-23s and MiG-27s, the force is down to just about 30 squadrons (each has 16-18 jets) when at least 42 are required to tackle the “collusive” threat from China and Pakistan. The remaining four MiG-21 “Bisons” squadrons are also slated to retire by 2024.

The defence ministry in July last year gave the initial nod for the acquisition of the 21 MiG-29s with the latest avionics and electronic warfare suites, and further upgrade of the 59 existing jets to “ensure commonality across the fleet”, at a cost of Rs 7,418 crore.

The cost of 12 new twin-seat Sukhois, along with advanced electronic warfare capabilities as well as additional supplies and spares, in turn, was estimated to be Rs 10,730 crore.

While 42 Sukhois are now being modified to carry the precision-strike BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles, the entire fleet will also subsequently be “fully enhanced” with more advanced avionics, radars and weapons to further bolster their combat capabilities.

IAF also plans to get the “acceptance of necessity” by this April-May for its long-term mega “Make in India” project for 114 new fighters for over $20 billion under the “strategic partnership” policy.

The French Rafale fighter will obviously be the frontrunner if India goes ahead with this project, having already bought 36 of them under the Rs 59,000 crore deal inked in September 2016. The other six contenders are F/A-18 and F-21 (US), Gripen-E (Sweden), Sukhoi-35 and MiG-35 (Russia) and the Eurofighter Typhoon.
 

Okabe Rintarou

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
595
Likes
2,118
Country flag

A single Tejas will carry five such pods i.e. total 20 Alfa-S drones.
A squadron of 20 Tejas can then release a swarm of at least 400 such drones. More than sufficient for Paki air defences and even Chinese Air Defences in the medium term. But in long term (15+ years or so) Chinese Air Defences grow thicker and might also employ EMP and DEW for defeating drone swarms.

With these drone swarms becoming the new meta, especially in SEAD/DEAD ops, we should start looking at a strategic bomber program similar to American B-21 Raider. A single such bomber could carry around 80-100 such drones. With a force of 150 bombers, we could release massive swarms of upto 15,000 drones across a broad front simultaneously. Doing so with fighter jets alone is not feasible. Another thing to keep in mind, the Chinese will achieve this capability faster than we will with their H-20 bomber program. So some preliminary work for an Indian bomber program needs to start NOW so that by 2030, we can initiate full scale development of such a bomber and induct the first such bombers by 2040.

Before someone cries about lack of funds, let me remind you that by 2040, most of the air defence systems and fighter purchases would be complete and Air Force funds will be going solely towards purchase of some AMCA. Swarming drone purchases would become part of munitions purchase. The Indian Air Force already has the largest procurement budget among all Indian Armed Forces, and this will have quadrupled at least by 2040. So monetarily, its within our reach. Technologically, it will only become feasible if preliminary work starts now. Ghatak UCAV program will be an important stepping stone for this.
 

Arihant Roy

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2018
Messages
1,214
Likes
8,838
Country flag

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top