Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[asianobserve]

This is a case of biting more one what it can chew. Small steps are better than big steps when learning to walk. The Korean example is a good one. It developed T-50, a scaled down F-16 (but still nimble enough to be uparmed to frontline fighter for developing countries), now it's developing KAI-FX.

The F-16 offer is an excellent opportunity in all important metrics: defense platform, industrial access and development of local industrial base, strategic politicsl leverage on a lot of countries.

India can then continue on modernizing F-16 in cooperation witj Americans while at the same time learning critical techs therefrom. Then India can build a stealthy version of F-16 with LM and other US companies' help. Surely, not as sophisticated as latest US tech but good enough for supportive roles or for the needs of air forces of developing countries.

 

[Akula]

Everyone wants a govt job because they know even if they do not work, no one is firing them from their job.
A brand new Su30 on flight trials crashed, an upgraded Mirage 2000 crashed resulting in deaths of two of our finest pilots, first flight of Tejas SP-21 FOC delayed from Nov 2019 to Jan 2020. Yes, HAL is doing perfectly fine.

During the Kargil war, a company by the name Bharat Forge delivered way more artillery shells to the Indian Army compared to OFB. Also, the shells delivered by Bharat Forge were of much better quality.

The second pilot who died in Mirage trainer crash was son of a staff member in my college. His age was around 30-31, so young.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

India can then continue on modernizing F-16 in cooperation witj Americans while at the same time learning critical techs therefrom. Then India can build a stealthy version of F-16 with LM and other US companies' help. Surely, not as sophisticated as latest US tech but good enough for supportive roles or for the needs of air forces of developing countries.

i have listened that F-16 can also updated to hunt UFOs.

Seeing support of Americans For development of Japanese 5TH generation aircraft gives me alot of hope :biggrin2:.
How Japanese developed there own XF-9-1
Engine without any help or support from it's closest ally. And indo-US collaboration is not even close to what Japanese - US relationship is.

Only technology which india requires for 5TH generation jet is it's engine and well all hopes of getting TOT were thrashed by by rejected DTTI An example is the co-development of “jet engine technology”, for which both sides constituted a joint working group (JWG) in 2015. On Thursday, Lord admitted that this had been suspended because “We could not come to an understanding of what exportable technology would be useful to the Indians. And we did run into a challenge in terms of the US export control.”

US companies will never transfer hot core technology there best offer is production line of GE-414 and the TOT in that case will be also lower than what we received with AL-31F.

A key challenge in the AMCA programme is to develop a new engine, powerful enough to permit super-cruising. For now, AMCA designers are working with twin General Electric (GE) F-414 engines – which is also being used, in a single- engine configuration, to power the Tejas Mark 2.

However, this engine is not powerful enough for super-cruising in all configurations. “Each F-414 engine generates a maximum thrust of 98 KiloNewtons (KN), and in Indian climatic conditions that effectively reduces to 90 KN. We have calculated that an AMCA, with the configuration the IAF has specified, requires a thrust of about 220 KN (in Indian conditions) for super-cruising. That means we need twin engines, each generating 110 KN thrust in Indian conditions,” says Deodhare.

A clutch of DRDO laboratories, led by the Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE), Bengaluru, is working to develop the AMCA engine. With the Kaveri engine, GTRE had managed to generate a maximum thrust of 83 KN. Now the target is 50 per cent higher.

 

[asianobserve]

i have listened that F-16 can also updated to hunt UFOs.

Seeing support of Americans For development of Japanese 5TH generation aircraft gives me alot of hope :biggrin2:.
How Japanese developed there own XF-9-1
Engine without any help or support from it's closest ally. And indo-US collaboration is not even close to what Japanese - US relationship is.

Only technology which india requires for 5TH generation jet is it's engine and well all hopes of getting TOT were thrashed by by rejected DTTI An example is the co-development of “jet engine technology”, for which both sides constituted a joint working group (JWG) in 2015. On Thursday, Lord admitted that this had been suspended because “We could not come to an understanding of what exportable technology would be useful to the Indians. And we did run into a challenge in terms of the US export control.”

US companies will never transfer hot core technology there best offer is production line of GE-414 and the TOT in that case will be also lower than what we received with AL-31F.

A key challenge in the AMCA programme is to develop a new engine, powerful enough to permit super-cruising. For now, AMCA designers are working with twin General Electric (GE) F-414 engines – which is also being used, in a single- engine configuration, to power the Tejas Mark 2.

However, this engine is not powerful enough for super-cruising in all configurations. “Each F-414 engine generates a maximum thrust of 98 KiloNewtons (KN), and in Indian climatic conditions that effectively reduces to 90 KN. We have calculated that an AMCA, with the configuration the IAF has specified, requires a thrust of about 220 KN (in Indian conditions) for super-cruising. That means we need twin engines, each generating 110 KN thrust in Indian conditions,” says Deodhare.

A clutch of DRDO laboratories, led by the Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE), Bengaluru, is working to develop the AMCA engine. With the Kaveri engine, GTRE had managed to generate a maximum thrust of 83 KN. Now the target is 50 per cent higher.

You have to live with the fact that no country will share their latest critical technologies especially in defense with any country. Not even economically desperate Russia. They will share older tech and even newest production oe assembly methods. But from access with these older techs you slowly build your own tech.

This is what Korea is doing. It has been able to design and manufacture higher tech airframes with help from shared US tech. But the critical cutting edge systems like radar and engine are off-limits. So Korea is slowly developing its own. I will not be surprised that in 10-20 years Korea will be able to match Western fighters like how it's doing in home electronics and automotive sector.

 

[Holy Triad]

This is a case of biting more one what it can chew. Small steps are better than big steps when learning to walk. The Korean example is a good one. It developed T-50, a scaled down F-16 (but still nimble enough to be uparmed to frontline fighter for developing countries), now it's developing KAI-FX.

The F-16 offer is an excellent opportunity in all important metrics: defense platform, industrial access and development of local industrial base, strategic politicsl leverage on a lot of countries.

India can then continue on modernizing F-16 in cooperation witj Americans while at the same time learning critical techs therefrom. Then India can build a stealthy version of F-16 with LM and other US companies' help. Surely, not as sophisticated as latest US tech but good enough for supportive roles or for the needs of air forces of developing countries.

You have to live with the fact that no country will share their latest critical technologies especially in defense with any country. Not even economically desperate Russia. They will share older tech and even newest production oe assembly methods. But from access with these older techs you slowly build your own tech.

This is what Korea is doing. It has been able to design and manufacture higher tech airframes with help from shared US tech. But the critical cutting edge systems like radar and engine are off-limits. So Korea is slowly developing its own. I will not be surprised that in 10-20 years Korea will be able to match Western fighters like how it's doing in home electronics and automotive sector.

Its none of your business,and it's rude of you

And Only the stake holders are eligible to discuss on such things......

Now feck off,you judgemental cutlet.....

 

[asianobserve]

Its none of your business,and it's rude

And Only the stake holders are eligible to discuss about these things......

Now feck off you judgemental cutlet.....

Well defense industry is a business and in business you treat your customers well. And if you can't understand that then it's you who has no business discussing defense business.

We are buying Bhramos next year and we are potential future customer for future Indian weapons, not to mention we occupy a very strategic location in Asia that should be an asset for future powers.

Now do you have the proper foresight to realize what I just said or you're just another confused, angry, insular character who thinks you know everything?

 

[Holy Triad]

treat your customers

Customer's don't get to say how to run a business,go ahead and try it McDonald's....

Besides,you are not a customer of hal aren't you?

potential future customer

Only potential,not confirmed...

proper foresight

I have enough foresight to not to allow a no name(in defence presence) outsider to finger wag before us.

to mention we occupy a very strategic location in Asia that should be an asset for future powers.

Tell it to the people who gives a fuq. We are neither expansionist nor looking for global policing

Besides are you selling out your precious land mass to highest bidder?


Besides,you didn't go around giving constructive criticism you arrogant prick,

Read your crap,

The F-16 offer is an excellent opportunity in all important metrics: defense platform, industrial access and development of local industrial base, strategic politicsl leverage on a lot of countries.

India can then continue on modernizing F-16 in cooperation witj Americans while at the same time learning critical techs therefrom. Then India can build a stealthy version of F-16 with LM and other US companies' help. Surely, not as sophisticated as latest US tech but good enough for supportive roles or for the needs of air forces of developing countries.

Essentially you said this,"you don't know how to build,so you gotta buy f16s,and beg to the lockheed gods for scraps"

One of our enemy state is already have squadrons of f16s and another enemy(chinks) is bon buddy who is already in the process of countering unkil made weapons.....


Use your common sense ...

you know everything?

I do know for fact that you don't know about our foreign policy. ROK is a murican vassal state which hosts unkil bases. But we want to project independent,strategic policies.

I say it again,

Stop Saying what do we need to buy and how to run a company.

 

[ezsasa]

The era of Mig-27 Bahadur in IAF ends tomorrow................

 

[asianobserve]

Customer's don't get to say how to run a business,go ahead and try it McDonald's....

Besides,you are not a customer of hal aren't you?




Only potential,not confirmed...




I have enough foresight to not to allow a no name(in defence presence) outsider to finger wag before us.



Tell it to the people who gives a fuq. We are neither expansionist nor looking for global policing

Besides are you selling out your precious land mass to highest bidder?


Besides,you didn't go around giving constructive criticism you arrogant prick,

Read your crap,



Essentially you said this,"you don't know how to build,so you gotta buy f16s,and beg to the lockheed gods for scraps"




I do know for fact that you don't know about our foreign policy. ROK is a murican vassal state which hosts unkil bases. But we are looking for independent strategic policies.

I say it again,

Stop Saying what do we need to buy and how to run a company.

You're over your head. Anyway, be humble and you'll go a long way. And always remember that the first step to learning is admitting that you still have to learn.

Btw, this is a "Forum" in case that word elluded you.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

We are buying Bhramos next year

Why Philippines didn't used 100 million line of credit which was given By GOI?. And placed order rapidly instead of waiting for next budget. I cannot wait to see india exporting bhramos to Philippines.

 

[asianobserve]

Why Philippines didn't used 100 million line of credit which was given By GOI?. And placed order rapidly instead of waiting for next budget. I cannot wait to see india exporting bhramos to Philippines.

We have a budget for it. And we need the capability now.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

We have a budget for it. And we need the capability now.

Any idea how many batteries and missile you are going to buy. And what can be cost of total deal.
Bhramos will give Philippines a real edge against commiiii boy's.


And hurdles between Russia have also been cleared.
In a major boost to India’s plan to export the BrahMos to East Asian countries, Russia has indicated that its strategic partnership with China will not come in the way to exporting the supersonic cruise missile, touted as the world’s deadliest, to any country.Diplomatic sources in Delhi said that Russia has given “in-principal” approval to India to export the missile to any country, including the Philippines.

 

[Holy Triad]

be humble

You are the one abruptly joined in the middle of an argument and started schilling for f16s. Read the thread before,no one is talking about f16s until you waltzed in.

Now you want me to be humble?

Buddy,respect is a two way street,don't expect it until you give one....

first step to learning is admitting that you still have to learn.

At least,I'm not the one spamming the forum with "buy amreek stuff" crap.

Btw, this is a "Forum" in case that word elluded you

As I said earlier,"forum" is two way street,
If you give crap it is expected to get some.

 

[DG7867]

We have a budget for it. And we need the capability now.

F16 is a very good fighter, but its no way better than Rafale. I doubt if upgraded F16 (whatever that would be) will match up to the beast that is Rafale F4. Furthermore, since IAFis already buying Rafales, they dont have money to maintain 2 different 4.5 gen M-MRCAs.

 

[Bhurki]

Am I the only one thinking India should have gone the way China did and developed Tejas with Al31 like china did with J10. India could have used ToT from su30 regarding engine tech and made their life a lot easier.

The work PLAAF did regarding standardizing engine is going to help them out a lot in the future where just a single engine WS 10 will be able to power their entire fleets of J10,11,15,16 and variants powering naval turbines, Y20 etc.

Otoh, India will need to maintain expertise in various kinds of engines like Al31, M88, M53, RD33, F404, Adour, F414( if SHornet is chosen).
This complicates maintenance budget and increases overhead costs considerably.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Oldieee beast bahadur.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

8 JF-17B rolled out in 5 months

Meanwhile HAL is busy in doing strikes.

 

[Bleh]

8 JF-17B rolled out in 5 months

Meanwhile HAL is busy in doing strikes.

April to now would be 7½-8 months. Not that great... Sub-par really. Just as shitty as HAL's 12/year.

But atleast they have orders.

 

[ezsasa]

8 JF-17B rolled out in 5 months

Meanwhile HAL is busy in doing strikes.

I don’t think this is a right comparison.

1) price point of Su-30 and Jf-17 are different, which means the cost of inventory to be ordered upfront is high for HAL.

2) the level of indigenisation is different, much higher for HAL. which means HAL is dependant of local companies while Pakistan is not.

3) obviously Chinese are good at quick manufacturing, which favours paki in quick turn around.

4) how is it even possible to deliver all 8 at the same time, unless the definition of delivery is different in pak. does it mean all 8 completed their tests at the same time? Other than US & China(probably) no country can probably complete required tests and user acceptance trials of a full production batch of aircrafts at the same time. We are talking about atleast 10-16 dedicated test pilots here...

 

[rone]

I don’t think this is a right comparison.

1) price point of Su-30 and Jf-17 are different, which means the cost of inventory to be ordered upfront is high for HAL.

2) the level of indigenisation is different, much higher for HAL. which means HAL is dependant of local companies while Pakistan is not.

3) obviously Chinese are good at quick manufacturing, which favours paki in quick turn around.

4) how is it even possible to deliver all 8 at the same time, unless the definition of delivery is different in pak. does it mean all 8 completed their tests at the same time? Other than US & China(probably) no country can probably complete required tests and user acceptance trials of a full production batch of aircrafts at the same time. We are talking about atleast 10-16 dedicated test pilots here...

The answer is simple jf17 80% of its components are 70 tech aluminum alloys body and other thing where LCA all the the have to develop from ground up where we had no support now these Tech's have to manufacture In. Larger scales which we implementing now In. Other word's we are trying to cultivating a home grown defense manufacturing systems which need time in initial phases but In Long run it will help us lot in technology improvement and other sector's

PS: jf17 almost 90% part's come fro China where they already have matured defence eco systems and In Pak the do the screwdriver giri, also don't compare LCA with jf17 they added 3 fly by wire and a aesa radar I.proved ew suit called block 3 , where hal do better job than that and called mk1a see the diffence and understand the Truth