Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[vampyrbladez]

I was thinking that RAFI WAS in the plan for 114 mmca. But AIR CHIEF Said that India is not going for more RAFI as per news report. That is why I ASK THE Q. NEW PLAN COULD BE PART OF TRADE DEAL UNDER NEGOTIATION WITH USA, JUST A GUESS.

They are going to have an accelerated procurement.

Speaking further he said that the current tender will not take as much time as the previous MMRCA, as IAF plans to test only those systems which were not part of the aircraft that were put into trials previously.

https://idrw.org/mmrca-2-0-trials-will-be-short-iaf-chief/

 

[bhavesh100]

Big guess work. If F21/F35 FROM LM is under consideration, LM can help India with Luca my II/amca as per reinvestment quideline. Anyway India need to replace mig21/27 (200), mig 29 (70), m2k (50) and jag (140) by 2035. Some big decision needs to be made.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Big guess work. If F21/F35 FROM LM is under consideration, LM can help India with Luca my II/amca as per reinvestment quideline. Anyway India need to replace mig21/27 (200), mig 29 (70), m2k (50) and jag (140) by 2035. Some big decision needs to be made.

F 16 got battered and shot down in Feb 27th Air Battle. This type has been seen as an enemy craft and will be politically unpopul1 choice as it will make public feel betrayed by the choice.

The plane has been thoroughly studied by Pakis and thus holds no value in terms of military edge. India has invested in indigenization of Rafale to some extent
Thus it is logical that they are going to win the contract.

F 35 is a damp squib as Indian Air Force will have no end user control on customisation. Money to the tune of almost $ 300mn on FGFA design phase has been spent by India. Once Russia starts induction of Item 30 engine grade planes, India will follow through with the planned purchase of 114 - 200 fighter jets of the type aforementioned.

 

[bhavesh100]

F 16 got battered and shot down in Feb 27th Air Battle. This type has been seen as an enemy craft and will be politically unpopul1 choice as it will make public feel betrayed by the choice.

The plane has been thoroughly studied by Pakis and thus holds no value in terms of military edge. India has invested in indigenization of Rafale to some extent
Thus it is logical that they are going to win the contract.

F 35 is a damp squib as Indian Air Force will have no end user control on customisation. Money to the tune of almost $ 300mn on FGFA design phase has been spent by India. Once Russia starts induction of Item 30 engine grade planes, India will follow through with the planned purchase of 114 - 200 fighter jets of the type aforementioned.

. Thanks for reply.
Let us see what decision INDIAN AIR FORCE makes, time is now.

 

[Filtercoffee]

I think Jas-39 Gripen will be a better choice as it is fairly new compared to the aircraft on offer and has an edge in terms of enemy knowledge of the fighter. Dassault has sold Mirage fighters to PAF and those guys have a fair idea about the avionics and characteristics about the Rafale as it is one of Dassault's. That gives away a fairly higher edge to the Gripen. Also the gripen and Tejas share the same engine and maintenance is very easy then if the Gripen which is the cheapest to operate or the Hornet if bought.

 

[WolfPack86]

IAF strongly pitches for Desi fighters,Plans to induct 123 Tejas Mark-I/IA, 200 Mark-II and 100+ AMCA
(Read the entire article)

.

In a strong push for indigenisation, the IAF has put its full weight behind the development of a home-grown fifth-generation fighter aircraft AMCA as well as shown its readiness to go in for 200 Tejas Mark-II light combat aircraft after inducting the first 123 Mark-I jets.

“We have no plans for importing a FGFA. The indigenous AMCA (advanced medium combat aircraft) has already been initiated…We are putting all our energy into it. IAF remains committed to indigenous development in consonance with the PM’s ‘Make in India’ initiative,” said Air Chief Marshal Rakesh Kumar Singh Bhadauria, who took over as the chief on September 30.

India had last year formally junked the proposed multi-billion dollar joint development and production of the FGFA called Sukhoi T-50 or PAK-FA with Russia on the grounds of economic and technical viability despite having completed the $295 million preliminary design contract inked in December 2010, as was then reported by TOI.

Now, the IAF’s full focus is on the futuristic twin-engine AMCA, with advanced stealth, multi-sensor integration and supercruise capabilities, to be developed in collaboration with DRDO, Aeronautical Development Agency and Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL). “The swing-role AMCA prototype should roll out of the hanger by 2024-2025, with the first test flight one to two years after that,” said a source.

In the near term, the IAF is banking upon the single-engine Tejas fighter to plug the shortfalls in the number of its fighter squadrons, which is down to just 30 (16-18 jets in each) when 42 are needed to tackle the collusive Pakistan-China threat.

IAF has so far signed contracts for the first 40 Tejas Mark-I jets, with the next deal with HAL for 83 improved Mark-IA fighters set to be inked soon. “After these 83, we hope to order Tejas Mark-II,” said ACM Bhadauria. Sources said IAF has managed to reduce the price of each Tejas Mark-IA jet to Rs 309 crore in hard-nosed negotiations with HAL, which had earlier held that the overall deal with infrastructure and maintenance would cost Rs 49,797 crore. The Mark-II fighters, with more powerful engines, advanced avionics and enhanced fuel and weapons carrying capacity, in turn, will weigh 17-tonne as compared to the 12-tonne existing Tejas.

There is, of course, also the project to build 114 new fighter jets for over $20 billion (Rs 1.4 lakh crore) under the “strategic partnership” policy in a joint venture between a selected foreign aviation major and its Indian partner. ACM Bhadauria said IAF would soon go to the defence ministry for preliminary approval or “acceptance of necessity” for the project, following which the RFP (request for proposal) will be issued. The seven contenders in this race are the Rafale (France), F/A-18 and F-21 (US), Gripen-E (Sweden), Sukhoi-35 and MiG-35 (Russia) and the Eurofighter Typhoon.
.https://www.facebook.com/pg/TeamAMCA/photos/?ref=page_internal

 

[Bhurki]

The el/w 2090 that is equipped on IAF IL 76 is being planned to be operationalized on c295 platform.
Is it the same radar as per dimensions or smaller in size?
If same, how could it impact being put on a 30 ton a/c vs 200 ton a/c?
(Not to confuse with netra system that DRDO has proposed to put on a c295 once the airframes are recieved)
Since IAF is already buying c295 for HS avro replacement, wouldn't it be better to mount 2090 on these rather than buy extra il76?

 

[uoftotaku]

The el/w 2090 that is equipped on IAF IL 76 is being planned to be operationalized on c295 platform.
Is it the same radar as per dimensions or smaller in size?
If same, how could it impact being put on a 30 ton a/c vs 200 ton a/c?
(Not to confuse with netra system that DRDO has proposed to put on a c295 once the airframes are recieved)
Since IAF is already buying c295 for HS avro replacement, wouldn't it be better to mount 2090 on these rather than buy extra il76?

It will be a much smaller radome on the C295...around 1/3 the size of that on the IL-76 platform. Only "advantage" over the Netra would be 360deg coverage. However, the much lower cruise altitude and speed of the C295 and relatively short endurance would be a negative.

Standardization of course is always welcomed but in some cases, practicality also has to be considered. Sub-optimal solutions are a waste of money. Replication of capabilities on disparate platforms is however a specialty of our forces so most likely they will go through with this...and the Netra C295...and more IL-76 Phalcons...and A330 CABS all of course with only 5 or less actual planes in service...give them a few years and they might even come out with idea to procure the V-22 Osprey mounted AESA AWACs that was proposed to the USN by Bell couple of years ago...

 

[Bhurki]

It will be a much smaller radome on the C295...around 1/3 the size of that on the IL-76 platform. Only "advantage" over the Netra would be 360deg coverage.

Link for the 1/3 size? Does elw 2090 come in different sizes?
C295 is a turboprop and has an endurance of 12 hours compared to 10 hours of il 76.

 

[uoftotaku]

Link for the 1/3 size? Does elw 2090 come in different sizes?
C295 is a turboprop and has an endurance of 12 hours compared to 10 hours of il 76.

All AESA radars are scalable as they are ultimate made of multiple individual T/R modules instead of a monolithic antenna. Only the back end processing and software have to be updated to match the difference

The smaller dish exists only in theory and has to be prototyped and validated. 2090 is unique to India anyway as we insisted on the traditional radome instead of the conformal array the Israelis themselves use.

And in other news...IIANM might be the first picture of an active M2K pictured in the wild equipped with the R73

 

[bhramos]

‘Major shift in govt’s way of handling terrorism’: IAF Chief RKS Bhadauria

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Respect.......................

 

[bhramos]

.........................................................

 

[Bleh]

.........................................................

They've been "getting avionics" for almost a decade now!

 

[Assassin 2.0]

https://m.economictimes.com/news/po...strike-on-monday/amp_articleshow/71568334.cms

Talks fail, HAL workers’ union to go ahead with indefinite strike on Monday
The HAL management has maintained that it would make all-out efforts to avert the strike.

KAMCHOR SALLE.

 

[Wisemarko]

India Reportedly Looks To Buy Unfinished Soviet-Era MiG-29s To Stave Off Fighter Shortage
The potential deal with Russia would see these aircraft completed after three decades in storage and brought up to the last standard.
By Tyler Rogoway


MiG
Facing [URL='https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/18733/india-upends-its-single-engine-fighter-competition-and-will-also-consider-twin-engine-jets']a steady decline in available fighter jets, the Indian Air Force is now reportedly in talks to buy 21 unfinished Soviet-era MiG-29 Fulcrums from Russia and have them completed in a modernized configuration. The proposed deal comes as India continues to struggle with a host of other fighter jet procurement efforts, most notably a more than decade long effort to purchase of more than a hundred new fighter jets, which is now effectively in its third incarnation.

The Times of India was first to report on the possible acquisition of the MiG-29 hulks, which date to the late 1980s and have apparently been in storage since at least around the fall of the Soviet Union. India received around 70 early model MiG-29s from Russia between 1986 and 1990, of which around 62 remain in service.

Since the early 2010s, Indian aerospace contractor Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), in cooperation with MiG in Russia, has upgraded about half of these two the MiG-29UPG standard, with Russian assistance. The UPG variant is similar to the Russian modernized MiG-29SMT, featuring the Zhuk-ME electronically scanned slotted planar array radar, as well as engine improvements and an expanded capability to conduct air-to-ground missions.

Where the UPG reportedly differs most from the SMT is in its non-Russian avionics upgrades. The Indian Navy also flies MiG-29Ks that have many updated features in common with the SMT and UPG variants. The new potential deal with Russia would see the incomplete MiG-29s finished in a configuration similar to either the SMT or UPG versions, according to The Times.

MiG

An Indian MiG-29 upgraded by MiG in Russia to the UPG standard.

“These fighters were built in the 1980s but never assembled and flown,” an unnamed Indian Air Force officer reportedly told the Indian daily. “Our team visited Russia last month and found the MiG-29 skeletons to be in good condition.”

The individual offered no further details on the state of the aircraft parts, which have been in storage now for at least around 30 years. Beyond the officer saying India had been offered “a good price,” there is no word on how much the Russians want for the unassembled planes or to finish building them to a modern standard.

But it is hard to see how the proposal would provide India, at least in the near term, with the additional fighter jet capacity it desperately needs right now. The jets not only need to be assembled, but have to be brought up to a significantly different standard. The SMT and UPG variants both feature an enlarged “hump” behind the cockpit, for example, which holds extra fuel.

Alex Beltyukov via Wikimedia

Making the changes necessary to internal wiring and other changes necessary to accommodate the new radar and other electronics could be particularly labor intensive. To underscore the potential complexities of the updates, the Indian Air Force’s entire MiG-29 fleet was originally supposed to be in the UPG configuration by 2013.

The amount of effort it might take to get just 20 additional aircraft into service seems excessive when the Indian Air Force has had a firm requirement for more than 100 additional aircraft since 2001. The Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft competition, or MMCRA, which has been officially ongoing since 2007, is still supposed to provide the bulk of the capacity, but still seems years after from leading to the acquisition of actual aircraft.

The fact that India has dropped its participation in Russia's fledgling Su-57 program that was supposed to result in an Indian-specific variant called the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) only adds more uncertainty to the country's future fighter force structure.

The under-produced Tejas fighter jet was also supposed to help replace dozens more Cold War-era jets. So far, the Indian Air Force has around a dozen Tejas Mk 1s and 40 more still on order, as well as plans to acquire more than 80 substantially improved Mk 1A variants.

Venkat Mangudi via Wikimedia

However, the Mk 1A isn’t even supposed to make its first flight until 2020. The Indian Air Force’s plans to acquire a further upgraded Mk 2 variant, as well as a domestically designed stealth fighter, known as the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), are still very much in the conceptual phase.

In the interim, India had inked a deal to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets from French manufacturer Dassault. The first of these aircraft are in flight testing in France with the expectation that they’ll get delivered later this year. However, years of allegations of corruption with regards to that contract have let to a bitter political and legal battle that threatens to upend the purchase entirely.





With all this in mind, the Indian Air Force may feel it has no choice but to resort to less optimal avenues to acquire any additional fighter jets. The Indian government says that the service needs at least 42 squadrons of fighter jets to meet its operational requirements, most importantly the need to continue presenting a realistic challenge to ever-growing Chinese and Pakistani airpower.

At present, it has just 31 squadrons. Even more worrisome, many of these are equipped with increasingly geriatric Soviet-era MiG-21 and MiG-27 and European Jaguar and Mirage 2000 tactical jets. Though these planes have all received upgrades over the years, the basic life expectancy of the airframes is increasingly in question.

It was just announced that India is looking to acquire another 18 Sukhoi Su-30MKI kits to assemble in-country as an additional measure to help further shore up the country's rickety fighter force. Nearly 300 Su-30 aircraft, in the form of kits or otherwise, will have been delivered to India once the deal runs its course.

Ramji Vyas/Hindustan Times/Sipa via AP

Indian firefighters hose down the remains of a MiG-27 after a crash in 2016.

Just so far in February 2019, the Indian Air Force has lost one MiG-27 and one Mirage 2000 in accidents. The pilot on board the MiG was able to eject, but the two aviators in the Mirage died. In the past, Indian media has referred to the MiG-21s and -27s specifically as “flying coffins” and “widow makers” on account of regular and often fatal crashes.

The Indian Air Force definitely needs more fighter jets to fill these growing gaps, which will only continue to expand as time goes on. But it’s not clear if pulling unfinished MiG-29s out of storage and bringing them up to a modern standard is a realistic path toward helping alleviate those issues. It's also possible that India could just use the old airframes for parts, but doing so would only have a chance of increasing the readiness of the existing MiG-29 fleet, not growing its size as a whole.

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[/URL]

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/26489/india-reportedly-looks-to-buy-unfinished-soviet-era-mig-29s-to-stave-off-fighter-shortage

 

[Assassin 2.0]

KAMCHOR salle nale nithale. Free ka kahya piya sogye. Kick these junks out. Yeh hi salle cancer h desh k liye.

Government should fire these jokers and hand over projects too private companies. And also involve young talented minds.

 

[Akula]

KAMCHOR salle nale nithale. Free ka kahya piya sogye. Kick these junks out. Yeh hi salle cancer h desh k liye.

Government should fire these jokers and hand over projects too private companies. And also involve young talented minds.

How much salary does the government pay to HAL employees?

 

[AVAST]

How much salary does the government pay to HAL employees?

More than they deserve. For example a technician working for air India gets around 70k-1 lakh per month along with other benefits like housing,free foreign travel etc. They hardly work 3 hours a day and take salary for 8 hours along with overtime . You even get a day off if you work a night shift. All you have to do is sleep inside the office. Some of them have accumulated 2 moths of paid leave doing like this. All the work is being done by freshers and third party contractors who work for 8k a moth. The situation is similar for HAL. Both Air India and HAL needs to be privatized and the old folks fired.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

India Reportedly Looks To Buy Unfinished Soviet-Era MiG-29s To Stave Off Fighter Shortage
The potential deal with Russia would see these aircraft completed after three decades in storage and brought up to the last standard.
By Tyler Rogoway


MiG
Facing a steady decline in available fighter jets, the Indian Air Force is now reportedly in talks to buy 21 unfinished Soviet-era MiG-29 Fulcrums from Russia and have them completed in a modernized configuration. The proposed deal comes as India continues to struggle with a host of other fighter jet procurement efforts, most notably a more than decade long effort to purchase of more than a hundred new fighter jets, which is now effectively in its third incarnation.
The Times of India was first to report on the possible acquisition of the MiG-29 hulks, which date to the late 1980s and have apparently been in storage since at least around the fall of the Soviet Union. India received around 70 early model MiG-29s from Russia between 1986 and 1990, of which around 62 remain in service.

Since the early 2010s, Indian aerospace contractor Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), in cooperation with MiG in Russia, has upgraded about half of these two the MiG-29UPG standard, with Russian assistance. The UPG variant is similar to the Russian modernized MiG-29SMT, featuring the Zhuk-ME electronically scanned slotted planar array radar, as well as engine improvements and an expanded capability to conduct air-to-ground missions.

Where the UPG reportedly differs most from the SMT is in its non-Russian avionics upgrades. The Indian Navy also flies MiG-29Ks that have many updated features in common with the SMT and UPG variants. The new potential deal with Russia would see the incomplete MiG-29s finished in a configuration similar to either the SMT or UPG versions, according to The Times.


MiG

An Indian MiG-29 upgraded by MiG in Russia to the UPG standard.

“These fighters were built in the 1980s but never assembled and flown,” an unnamed Indian Air Force officer reportedly told the Indian daily. “Our team visited Russia last month and found the MiG-29 skeletons to be in good condition.”

The individual offered no further details on the state of the aircraft parts, which have been in storage now for at least around 30 years. Beyond the officer saying India had been offered “a good price,” there is no word on how much the Russians want for the unassembled planes or to finish building them to a modern standard.

But it is hard to see how the proposal would provide India, at least in the near term, with the additional fighter jet capacity it desperately needs right now. The jets not only need to be assembled, but have to be brought up to a significantly different standard. The SMT and UPG variants both feature an enlarged “hump” behind the cockpit, for example, which holds extra fuel.


Alex Beltyukov via Wikimedia

Making the changes necessary to internal wiring and other changes necessary to accommodate the new radar and other electronics could be particularly labor intensive. To underscore the potential complexities of the updates, the Indian Air Force’s entire MiG-29 fleet was originally supposed to be in the UPG configuration by 2013.

The amount of effort it might take to get just 20 additional aircraft into service seems excessive when the Indian Air Force has had a firm requirement for more than 100 additional aircraft since 2001. The Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft competition, or MMCRA, which has been officially ongoing since 2007, is still supposed to provide the bulk of the capacity, but still seems years after from leading to the acquisition of actual aircraft.

The fact that India has dropped its participation in Russia's fledgling Su-57 program that was supposed to result in an Indian-specific variant called the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) only adds more uncertainty to the country's future fighter force structure.

The under-produced Tejas fighter jet was also supposed to help replace dozens more Cold War-era jets. So far, the Indian Air Force has around a dozen Tejas Mk 1s and 40 more still on order, as well as plans to acquire more than 80 substantially improved Mk 1A variants.


Venkat Mangudi via Wikimedia

However, the Mk 1A isn’t even supposed to make its first flight until 2020. The Indian Air Force’s plans to acquire a further upgraded Mk 2 variant, as well as a domestically designed stealth fighter, known as the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), are still very much in the conceptual phase.

In the interim, India had inked a deal to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets from French manufacturer Dassault. The first of these aircraft are in flight testing in France with the expectation that they’ll get delivered later this year. However, years of allegations of corruption with regards to that contract have let to a bitter political and legal battle that threatens to upend the purchase entirely.





With all this in mind, the Indian Air Force may feel it has no choice but to resort to less optimal avenues to acquire any additional fighter jets. The Indian government says that the service needs at least 42 squadrons of fighter jets to meet its operational requirements, most importantly the need to continue presenting a realistic challenge to ever-growing Chinese and Pakistani airpower.

At present, it has just 31 squadrons. Even more worrisome, many of these are equipped with increasingly geriatric Soviet-era MiG-21 and MiG-27 and European Jaguar and Mirage 2000 tactical jets. Though these planes have all received upgrades over the years, the basic life expectancy of the airframes is increasingly in question.

It was just announced that India is looking to acquire another 18 Sukhoi Su-30MKI kits to assemble in-country as an additional measure to help further shore up the country's rickety fighter force. Nearly 300 Su-30 aircraft, in the form of kits or otherwise, will have been delivered to India once the deal runs its course.


Ramji Vyas/Hindustan Times/Sipa via AP

Indian firefighters hose down the remains of a MiG-27 after a crash in 2016.

Just so far in February 2019, the Indian Air Force has lost one MiG-27 and one Mirage 2000 in accidents. The pilot on board the MiG was able to eject, but the two aviators in the Mirage died. In the past, Indian media has referred to the MiG-21s and -27s specifically as “flying coffins” and “widow makers” on account of regular and often fatal crashes.

The Indian Air Force definitely needs more fighter jets to fill these growing gaps, which will only continue to expand as time goes on. But it’s not clear if pulling unfinished MiG-29s out of storage and bringing them up to a modern standard is a realistic path toward helping alleviate those issues. It's also possible that India could just use the old airframes for parts, but doing so would only have a chance of increasing the readiness of the existing MiG-29 fleet, not growing its size as a whole.

Contact the author: [email protected]

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https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...iet-era-mig-29s-to-stave-off-fighter-shortage

Algeria returned 12 RSK MiG-29SMT

Algeria claimed internals of the jet are old and forced Russia to take them back and Russians thought to include them in there airforce but that never happened so they are just lying useless. So most probably we are getting 12 frames which are in good condition.

the MiG-29 fleet of the IAF was put through a comprehensive upgrade by Russia at a cost of $865 Million. Besides new avionics kits, the upgrade involves the replacement of its outdated N019 Topaz air-intercept radar with a new Zhuk -AME Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar with a range of 160km.

Besides this, the upgraded version (called MiG-29 UPG) has enhanced BVR capabilities, an air-to–air refuelling capability for higher endurance, higher fuel capacity extending the ferry range of the aircraft by 40 per cent from 2,100 to 3,000 km, a new generation weapon control system with a capability to launch Precision Guided Munitions (PGMs), capability to launch subsonic anti-ship missiles, a higher capability RD 33 turbofan engine, improved cockpit ergonomics featuring an enhanced Hands on Throttle and Stick (HOTAS) design. HOTAS refers to a capability in which a pilot can fly the aircraft without having to remove their hands from the controls.

MiG-29 UPG is a capable jet.

Let's hope it's a good buy.