Indian Air Force admits can’t fight China, Pak at the same time

[smestarz]

His problem is with numbers. If its numbers he wants, stuff his mouth with 9 Tejas squadrons. With a total of 42 squadrons, he wouldn't be able to cry anymore.

Not really. IAF is like a baby, which has seen something shiny and wants it, What they do is cry about numbers but then they are pointing at Rafale and crying.. now MoD has seen this game, Rather after the NDA came to power that actually started the decline of Rafale deal. The Def minister has made it a point to understand many things
Some top IAF brass told the Def minister that Su-30 MKI is not reliable and that Rafale has longer range than Su-30 MKI, Def min asked many experts, some ex-IAF and also the Russians, and he was reliably informed that Rafale does not have the range of Su-30 MKI and if Rafale does have that range, then it cannot carry the load.Thus Warload + range... Su-30 MKI is better than rafale, He also enquired about the capabilities and other aspects. He was again reliably informed that in many areas Su-30 MKI outperforms Rafale. One of the key area for Rafale is its new Avionics that would come soon. Also Def min was informed that with Su-30 MKI upgrade Su-30 MKI will be atleast at par with Rafale. Thus Rafale will have no advantage over Su-30 MKI.. Then our IAF top brass talked about how Su-30 MKI is heavy MRCA and how IAF needa a medium weight MRCA..
When actually I hear this, I realise how desperate the IAF top brass is to earn their commission.
Next we might actually have IAF brass saying that we should buy Rafale because the IAF roundels look better on Rafale.

 

[smestarz]

Exactly. In fact, the MoD must invite these IAF divas to a meeting and tell them plainly, "if you think you can't win a war given the current scenario, then we completely understand your predicament and don't want you to take the blame for any loss that you may suffer in a future fight. Please resign. We will find someone who is willing to act according to the national script". These spoiled brats need to be straightened.

You can wake a guy who is sleeping, you cannot wake a guy who pretends to sleep.
I think IAF top brass is either ignorant and I would really forgive them for being ignorant, or they are just corrupt.

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

Not really. IAF is like a baby, which has seen something shiny and wants it, What they do is cry about numbers but then they are pointing at Rafale and crying.. now MoD has seen this game, Rather after the NDA came to power that actually started the decline of Rafale deal. The Def minister has made it a point to understand many things
Some top IAF brass told the Def minister that Su-30 MKI is not reliable and that Rafale has longer range than Su-30 MKI, Def min asked many experts, some ex-IAF and also the Russians, and he was reliably informed that Rafale does not have the range of Su-30 MKI and if Rafale does have that range, then it cannot carry the load.Thus Warload + range... Su-30 MKI is better than rafale, He also enquired about the capabilities and other aspects. He was again reliably informed that in many areas Su-30 MKI outperforms Rafale. One of the key area for Rafale is its new Avionics that would come soon. Also Def min was informed that with Su-30 MKI upgrade Su-30 MKI will be atleast at par with Rafale. Thus Rafale will have no advantage over Su-30 MKI.. Then our IAF top brass talked about how Su-30 MKI is heavy MRCA and how IAF needa a medium weight MRCA..
When actually I hear this, I realise how desperate the IAF top brass is to earn their commission.
Next we might actually have IAF brass saying that we should buy Rafale because the IAF roundels look better on Rafale.

In addition to these technical considerations there are also political considerations to make. Relying on very high tech stuff in large numbers from a nation makes us politically beholden to them on multilateral forums dealing with geopolitical issues. Giving in to the kind of obscene demands that the IAF has made means 3 more decades of intellectual slavery. We cant patronize foreign defense contractors on such a large scale when we are trying to get our domestic R&D and manufacturing capacity up, not to mention foreign exchange inflation. The IAF doesn't give a shit about these issues, they just want more imported planes. Ask them if they will take more Tejas if it's just about numbers then they will twist their nose and refuse. They want just imported shiny stuff.

 

[Jangaruda]

Damn it man the IAF Vice Chief is literally begging for rafales.. They really need to start inducting tejas in the place if mig 21s... If there is a need for a bomber aircraft thn Su-34 is the best bet as it can replace the Mig 27s...

 

[Jangaruda]

Even if India sinks the entire Pakistani surface fleet, Pakistan can still get supplies. India cannot easily stop Chinese or Saudi ships from carrying supplies to Pakistani ports. We should be realistic about war.

India's win will be predicated on Indian industry able to supply much greater amount of war materiel. This is possible only with support of civilian industry.

Dude the whole purpose of Carrier Battle Groups is to enable us to enforce such a blockade...

 

[Jangaruda]

Israel is only a supplier. Why do you think israel will enter a war on India's behalf?

Had India fought with Israel in its wars?

Israel is one of India's key strategic partners and Israel always wanted to bomb paki nuke reactors in the beginning itself... Israel may send its pilots to fight for India bcuz previously paki pilots flew combat against Israel

 

[sorcerer]

Israel is only a supplier. Why do you think israel will enter a war on India's behalf?

Had India fought with Israel in its wars?

At one time..they wanted to cream pakis with Indias help.. if only....
Lets say for time being..lets say Israel will "support " India with tech and intel

 

[Jangaruda]

His problem is with numbers. If its numbers he wants, stuff his mouth with 9 Tejas squadrons. With a total of 42 squadrons, he wouldn't be able to cry anymore.

But nooo the guy only wants the bloody rafales... The IAF is really hell bent on rafales

 

[garg_bharat]

Dude the whole purpose of Carrier Battle Groups is to enable us to enforce such a blockade...

Simply not possible. Unless India wants its own oil supply blocked.

The entire talk of Pakistani blockade is hot air. You can at best sink PN ships.

 

[garg_bharat]

At one time..they wanted to cream pakis with Indias help.. if only....
Lets say for time being..lets say Israel will "support " India with tech and intel

Israel is a small country that has its own problems. Let us not get too ambitious.

In space assets, USA, EU, China, and Russia (given in proper order) are on the top. In this only Russia is likely to help.

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

But nooo the guy only wants the bloody rafales... The IAF is really hell bent on rafales

These empty threats of IAF remind me of a useless classmate of mine. His family was poor and his parents were illiterate, they took loans to educate him, and this dude use to fool them. He never attended classes, wasted all the money on movies, then asked his parents to buy him a bike because "tuition was far away, and I would fail I don't go". They gave him a bike. Then next year he asked for a laptop, claiming "my coursework requires a laptop, otherwise I will fail". He used to take advantage of his parents because they didn't know these technical things, same way the IAF takes advantage of the patriotic sentiments of gullible Indians by claiming that if civilians don't give in to their tantrums then India will be invaded by Pakistan and China.

@Indx TechStyle What the IAF is actually suggesting is that it's these 12 squadrons which stand between the survival of our entire race and total annihilation. So, there's no Army, no Navy, no RAW, no ballistic missile defense systems, no air defense guns, no cruise missiles, no mountain strike corps, no nuclear deterrence, nothing. It's just IAF that protects India.

Let us take a deep breath and contemplate what the IAF is actually blackmail us into doing. There are ~30 squadrons right now, as opposed to the sanctioned 42. According to the IAF, if they aren't given the additional 250 shiny, imported planes which they have demanded, we will be invaded by China and Pakistan in a few days. I guess we should start learning Chinese languages to avoid any communication problems with our new Chinese masters who are going to invade us next week, as per IAF predictions.

#No Ullu Banawing

 

[garg_bharat]

I think LCA delivery will start in later part of this year.

The induction of new fighters will go to 23 in 2017 plus up gradation of some 15 fighters. It is not as if nothing is happening.

Iaf can upgrade more mig27 as only 40 were upgraded. Commonsense can help fill the gaps.

 

[Superdefender]

I repeatedly mention everywhere that wait for AMCA. It is the next big thing and take it seriously. It will be miles ahead of Rafale. If the West is surprised to see Tejas's performance in BIAS (After much criticism from West earlier), wait for their reaction when they will notice AMCA flying. I personally guarantee they all will hide their faces. But nobody agrees with me. All are saying - "It is just in design board!" I know it will not be inducted before 2024. But who will attack you before 2025? China? Really? Pakistan? Excuse me?

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

But who will attack you before 2025? China? Really? Pakistan? Excuse me?

Both China and Pakistan will attack us this weekend, if one goes by the alarmist rhetoric that is coming out of IAF and maybe even Maldives, Nepal and Bhutan will join in. That's why we need at least 100 squadrons of planes imported from all countries, some Rafales, some F35s, F16s, PAK-FA, SU 35, Typhoon, C17, C130, we need 100 squadrons of each model, at least. We should also buy 100 squadrons of JF17, just in case we need it.

What? you disagree? well, be prepared to be invaded by Nepal and Bhutan, you unpatriotic, ignorant, puny civilian. I will immediately take a press conference and shame you in front of the whole world for denying me 100 squadrons of planes to add to my collection. Sir, @Superdefender you will personally be responsible if we are invaded by Nepal and Bhutan. Just wait and watch my press conference.

"I want more planes, waaa waa, more planes. Pakistan and China waaaaa, waaa." - IAF, every 6 months

 

[garg_bharat]

Sea blockade is actually easy, with just Subs, But should we be content to just block? Actually taking Karachi ofensively takes out one big supply route. The other route is from West... which will be limited. Only being the CA countries

I think aircrafts will be more effective in taking out surface ships compared to subs. But taking out Chinese flagged vessels for example is more complicated even if you could. Karachi port can be destroyed, but they can offload somewhere else.

My point is that a blockade is hard. Several countries together are blockading Yemen, still weapons are getting through. Attacking a port or infrastructure is easier compared to long term blockade.

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

Look at the difference in attitudes between Navy and IAF. The Navy, despite a shortage of funds, keeps the nation's interests in mind, unlike the spoiled IAF.

Can the IAF ever speak with such humility and loyalty towards domestic manufacturing? I think not.

 

[Bornubus]

And this situation will remain at least by 2025 and foolish acquisition of Rafales only made it worse.

 

[Bahamut]

I know some IAF officer that support indigenisation but the some higher up are not able to see the bigger picture .Rafale is a good plane but we need a plane cheap ,easy to maintain and quick to build .Mig 35 or F 18 should have been the choice but IAF messed up big time.

 

[Bornubus]

I know some IAF officer that support indigenisation but the some higher up are not able to see the bigger picture .Rafale is a good plane but we need a plane cheap ,easy to maintain and quick to build .Mig 35 or F 18 should have been the choice but IAF messed up big time.

Rafale is good but not 36.Russia offered us Mig 35 with AESA,Cheap yet enough for Pakis and China even superior to F 16 blk 52.we would've have 100 Mig 35 ~ by 2020 followed by Super Sukhoi upgrade enough for 2 front war.

Lately UPA Govt and now Modi has been trying to give a signal to Russia that India is no longer dependent on them but look what US did they sell F 16 to US and we lost the trust of Russia.

Gained nothing.

 

[Bornubus]

^^ AMCA

FGFA was supposed to be inducted before 2020 according to the original plan so that its tech can be used in AMCA but it was also a failure both from Russian and our side.

Now i hope this project goes through and probably a prototype by 2020 for our specs ,Russia also offered a reduced price recently.