India won't mind military takeover in Pakistan

pyromaniac

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New Delhi & Islamabad: General Ashfaq Kayani is acceptable to the Americans and even New Delhi will not mind a military takeover in the present conditions, the former chief of an intelligence agency told DNA.

His comment came after the terrorist attack on Sri Lankan cricketers in Lahore on Tuesday.

"Our worst security nightmare is Pakistan collapsing, that is what they (the US) have to prevent first, if their Afghan strategy has to win," he said.

The world cannot allow Pakistan to fall apart as a splintered country is even more dangerous for the international community.

India found it easier to deal with a military dictator like General Pervez Musharraf, simply because the government knew where the power-centre was. That the civilian government does not call the shots in Pakistan was made amply clear after the Mumbai terror attacks.

"Pakistan imploding is old news, it has been happening for long. It will not collapse right away, but steadily, one brick in the wall at a time,'' said former diplomat Arvind Deo.
He blamed the US for continuing to throw money at Pakistan and pampering the military to fight against jihadis and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and Pakistan. He agreed that India would suffer the most if Pakistan fell apart.

"Jihadi forces are in Lahore fighting to create a pure Islamic state. The civilian government has been unable to stop the tide,'' said Deo.

Sociologist Dipankar Gupta said, "From the very beginning, Pakistan has not bothered to build institutions. It has relied too much on its security apparatus."

"It's a siege within now,'' said strategic analyst K Subrahmanyam.

"The forces Pakistan had nurtured have now come home to roost. But we must have patience and give Pakistan time to make the right moves. Pakistan's military was allowed to get away while playing with fire. Now we have to suffer.''


http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1236025
 

Neo

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Saturday, 28 Feb, 2009

During comprehensive and multilateral talks between the United States, Afghanistan and Pakistan, Chief of Army Staff Ashfaq Parvez Kayani told US members of Congress that the Pakistani Army would not intervene in the wake of the deteriorating political situation in Pakistan, the New York Times reported on Friday.

The Pakistani army chief, who took power following the resignation of Pervez Musharraf in November 2007, has unlike his predecessor vowed to avoid army intervention in politics and government affairs.

The question and answer session, which took place in Washington, was part of a broader dialogue between the three partners in the ‘War on Terror’ taking place in Afghanistan. In response to a question by one US congressman, Kayani stated that the army would not intervene even if the political situation deteriorated further, the New York Times quoted an unnamed Pakistani official as saying.

Unprecedentedly, the three-way talks include top military, government and intelligence officials from all three countries. ‘These were not just photo ops,’ top US state department official for the region, Richard Holbrooke stated. ‘Meetings in this configuration have not taken place.’

On Thursday, Gen Kayani was inducted into the US military’s international Hall of Fame in a small yet refined ceremony at Fort Leavenworth.
 

screwterrorists

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Its not that India wont mind military takeover in Pakistan, its that they would prefer this bad alternative over a worse one where terrorists seize some kind of power.
 

Neo

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Terrorists will never seize power in Pakistan. Such thoughts only exisit in India or with US' Neo-Cons.
 

screwterrorists

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How can you say that when your government pretty much admitted defeat to the taliban and implemented what was it shariah law in SWAT?
 

Neo

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How can you say that when your government pretty much admitted defeat to the taliban and implemented what was it shariah law in SWAT?
Defeat? We're a democracy remember. Muslim parties won in NWFP. If its people's will to live under sharia law so be it.

We've tried western approach, fought western led WoT but none of this is serving our interests. Call it anything but defeat. Implementing Shariah Law isn't same thing as bending over to Talibans.
 

nitesh

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Pak pathan Is this is the "will" of people?

http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=163004

New rules for traffic were introduced and all kinds of transport were forced to move on the right side of the road, the left being deemed un-Islamic. This resulted in numerous road accidents. Men were made to wear watches on the right hand.
As for the TNSM, it was formed by Sufi Mohammad in 1988. He himself is a simple and peaceful man who does not preach violence except in the way of jihad against non- Muslims.
 

Singh

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Defeat? We're a democracy remember. Muslim parties won in NWFP. If its people's will to live under sharia law so be it.

We've tried western approach, fought western led WoT but none of this is serving our interests. Call it anything but defeat. Implementing Shariah Law isn't same thing as bending over to Talibans.
a few questions

1. weren't the people of swat terrorised? wasn't support for shariat co-erced? why didn't these people object for 40 years ? why did these people turn "pious muslims" only when taliban entered ?
2. who decides if soofi mohammad and maulana radio are deemed fit to implement shariat ? weren't these guys killing fellow muslims ?
3. are Pakistani laws unIslamic or kaffir like ? should pakistan have 2 seperate laws for the state ?
4. then if the will of the people was shariat then why a war on terror ? why did pakistani army lose so many soldiers ?
 

ahmedsid

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Well, one thing is clear, when a dictator is in command we all know who calls the shots, but at this moment in Pakistan no one knows who is in control! It is chaos somewhat I feel. Some say, terrorists are gonna take over, some say the army is gonna take over, some say The americans will seize the nukes! What with these "somebody"??? Why cant everybody work to defeat the terrorists? Terrorists dont stand for a particular religion I believe, they stand against humanity and sanity!
 

foofighter

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Defeat? We're a democracy remember. Muslim parties won in NWFP. If its people's will to live under sharia law so be it.

We've tried western approach, fought western led WoT but none of this is serving our interests. Call it anything but defeat. Implementing Shariah Law isn't same thing as bending over to Talibans.
Then Lahore attack should not have happened. Striking peace deals with terrorists is not the way to show the world you are a democracy and are safegaurding the rights of your people.
 

musalman

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a few questions
1. weren't the people of swat terrorised? wasn't support for shariat co-erced? why didn't these people object for 40 years ? why did these people turn "pious muslims" only when taliban entered ?
Terrorized by war,majority wanted Sharia. Swatis did protests for implementation of sharia in 91 too. 77 - 88 whole Pakistan had some what sharia laws.
2. who decides if soofi mohammad and maulana radio are deemed fit to implement shariat ? weren't these guys killing fellow muslims ?
Swatis
3. are Pakistani laws unIslamic or kaffir like ? should pakistan have 2 seperate laws for the state ?
Laws are pretty much Islamic but the judicial system is not. Actually Qazi courts are same as normal courts but they will be alot speedy plus requirement of lawyers won't be there.
4. then if the will of the people was shariat then why a war on terror ? why did pakistani army lose so many soldiers ?
Well coz of Daddy US :) they have to show something to it ;) :sAni_monkey:
 

ahmedsid

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Terrorized by war,majority wanted Sharia. Swatis did protests for implementation of sharia in 91 too. 77 - 88 whole Pakistan had some what sharia laws.
Swatis
Laws are pretty much Islamic but the judicial system is not. Actually Qazi courts are same as normal courts but they will be alot speedy plus requirement of lawyers won't be there.
Well coz of Daddy US :) they have to show something to it ;) :sAni_monkey:
Your last line- Does it mean that this whole WoT that Pakistan is fighting is a Farce and that If necessary Shariah Law and Taliban Govt can take power in Pakistan??? I hope Not!
 

Singh

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No, a thousand times no!


YOU never negotiate from a position of weakness: not in business; not in banking; not while making real estate deals; and certainly not when dealing with cold-blooded killers who think nothing of slaughtering defenceless old men and women and hanging their carcasses from electric poles in the main squares of the towns and villages which that night face their wrath.

The government of the Frontier, Pakhtunkhwa, call it what you will; and the Government of Pakistan, including their agencies both covert and overt, have cravenly given in to the murderous thugs who have brought so much pain and misery to Swat; who have made its once pristine rivers run red with innocent blood. They have given the mullah the proverbial inch; as said in this same space last week, just wait until he demands a thousand miles, and more.

Those that write that the situation was so bad in Swat that there was no other way but to make a deal with Maulvi Sufi Mohammad, who would in turn make a deal with his son-in-law Mullah Fazlullah (aka Mullah Radio), and that the crowds that came onto the roads to welcome Sufi’s caravan testified to the fact that the deal was a good thing, should think again. For the deal is unravelling before our very eyes.

On the very day after the so-called deal was signed young Musa Khankhel, a journalist, was brutally shot in broad daylight; three days later the newly appointed DCO of Swat was kidnapped along with his half-a-dozen guards and some hours later exchanged for two Taliban with a third release promised impendingly. Already, the Waziristan Taliban have formed a ‘Shura Ittehadul Mujahideen’, to wage jihad “in an organised manner”.

The Taliban commanders who have united under one banner are Hafiz Gul Bahadur of North Waziristan; Maulvi Nazir of Wana, and our old friend Baitullah Mehsud of South Waziristan. According to news from Miranshah the three have declared President Barack Obama, Hamid Karzai and Asif Zardari ‘infidels’. An aside: if this is not a wake-up call, Mr President, what will be, for you to make up with the other big political party, the PML-N, and face the country’s enemies, which includes the establishment, together?

This is not all. In a clear, and alarming, sign that it is in a state of utter denial, the agency which was given the responsibility for combating the now victorious insurgents, and which failed all ends up to do its duty, is once more flexing its muscles in another worthless show of fake bravado. The ISPR has the gall to say that the “military option was still open if the Swat peace deal failed”.

Nor is this all. It has the brass to say that it needs “modern equipment” which would not only “enhance the efficiency of the armed forces [read Pakistan Army!], but also help reduce collateral damage”. What absolute poppycock is this, sirs? Just WHAT modern equipment are you asking for? More artillery pieces and helicopter gunships that were your favourite weapons while you were making feeble attempts to ‘fight’ the Taliban? No artillery gun or helicopter gunship that will reduce collateral damage has yet been invented.

The only way to limit collateral damage is when you physically ‘contact’ the enemy at close quarters. Not once has this tactic been used by the army in Swat, or anywhere else in the Frontier.

The extent of the failure of the Pakistan state and its great army is frighteningly alarming. The ineptness shown defies description and the refusal to even now accept its shortcomings and improve is extremely disquieting, nay distressing.

Swat was/is not the only ‘theatre’ in which the army has shown it is unequal to the task. Please consider the daily attacks on the main supply route we have offered to the Americans/Nato through the Khyber Pass. Think back to the photographs of the bridge most recently blown up, in place of which army engineers quickly put up a temporary structure capable of handling the supply-carrying vehicles.

Clearly seen in the background and barely a few hundred feet away is a picket post: little fort-like buildings for accommodations for up to a platoon of soldiers that dot the Khyber Pass, indeed all the passes leading into the Frontier and Balochistan. It was once said that these pickets were so located that each of them either had a water source of its own or was near enough one from where donkeys or mules could carry the water up to it — therefore the term ‘mule-tank’. It was said too that using heliograms, messages could be relayed for hundreds of miles, from picket to picket, warning of impending danger.

I digress. The question to ask is if the picket seen behind the blown-up bridge was manned; and if it was not, why not? WHY this lackadaisical approach to everything, even tried and tested standard operating procedures? It is galling in the extreme to me as an old soldier when I see that the most basic tactics of operating in an insurrectional situation are not employed.

It angers me no end when I hear people who should know nothing of our country and its people’s ways, lecture us that our troops, particularly the Frontier Corps, don’t know how to fight an insurrection. If the Tochi Scouts don’t know tribal warfare who does, for God’s sake? If the Kurram Militia doesn’t know, who does? US Navy Seals?

If only our brass-hats gave more time to training their commands than they give to running housing colonies and factories and bakeries and tikka joints and tarting up their cantonments.

This deal should never have been made. It is the thin end of the wedge. Punjab is already under attack: Mianwali has had two police posts blown up and that poor Polish geologist who was then duly beheaded, was taken from Attock. We will rue the day. And now for the harsh words spoken by an increasingly distressed Nawaz Sharif.

Asif Zardari should even now do the right thing and, in keeping with the Charter of Democracy and his own promises, immediately ask his party to move the 18th Amendment removing all the undemocratic changes to our constitution made by the Commando. Who, by the way, has some gall too, smoking his fat Cohiba on television and lecturing us angrily. The man should be held to account for his many crimes, chief among which is the near destruction of the Pakistan Army.

Asif should also know that having Nawaz and Shahbaz Sharif disqualified through the courts will only make him look worse, and make them ever more popular.

P.S. The same crowds would have come out on to Swat’s roads had the Frontier government moved itself and all its minions to Saidu Sharif to govern from there. What good now to distribute 30,000 rifles among the villagers?! Poppycock again.

http://www.dawn.net/wps/wcm/connect...-newspaper/columnists/no,+a+thousand+times+no
 

musalman

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Your last line- Does it mean that this whole WoT that Pakistan is fighting is a Farce and that If necessary Shariah Law and Taliban Govt can take power in Pakistan??? I hope Not!
Answer to ur question is I think Yes :)
Regarding Sharia Pakistani will welcome it , coz its a good law
regarding Taliban / Saudis / AlQaeda ,well no way they are not welcome here.
 

Yusuf

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I'm at pains trying to differentiate between the terrorists and Pak Army. The only thing good for India is a semblence of order out there. Besides that we will continue to face terror attacks under ISI PA patronage.
 

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