India will never buy Russian Su35 or Mig 35 as India has already developed those technologies

MiG-29SMT

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You should re-watch the video. The discussion is about why India would not buy Su-35 its not about capabilities.
Su-35 will be compared to Su-30MKI if it is considered to procurement. What advanced Russian AESA radar you are talking about that is present in Su-35.
Have a rational thought before harping on Russian band wagon. Your response seems to be a typical amateurish response instead of providing technical comparison. A typical knee-jerk reaction.
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Russia has EASA radars on Su-57 and MiG-35

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Vivek k

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Russia has great techs. but India now has developed key technologies that are the foundations for a domestic MIC that will help provide large quantities of weapon systems at a cheaper cost and also allow integration of weapons from western and Russian source. In addition the money stays in the economy and also provides good paying jobs to Indians. India should continue to collaborate with its old friend Russia but not at the cost of local jobs and development.
 

Tshering22

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What is so great about Su-35 that India doesn't have?
- Greater range by 3x
- Greater payload by 2.5x
- Supermaneuvrability like no other jet on earth
- A proven base of EW suite

But essentially the manoeuvrability and load-carrying capacity.

Tejas is pretty potent with many technologies but it is not right to compare the jets. They are completely different roles.

We are on the right track though so buying Su-35s is not ideal.

Tejas Mk1A + Tejas Mk2 + AMCA + Rafale +Su-30MKI is a good mix for the next 20+ years.
 

Dark Sorrow

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- Greater range by 3x
Su-30 MKI : 3000 km
Su-35 : 3600 km
- Greater payload by 2.5x
Su-30 MKI : 8130 kg
Su-35 : 8000 kg
- Supermaneuvrability like no other jet on earth
Debatable, Su-30 MKI is equally good
- A proven base of EW suite
We already have Israeli and Indian developed EW systems which are more than capable than Russian EW
Tejas is pretty potent with many technologies but it is not right to compare the jets. They are completely different roles.
The comparison is between Su-35 and Su-30 MKI
We are on the right track though so buying Su-35s is not ideal.
Agreed
Tejas Mk1A + Tejas Mk2 + AMCA + Rafale +Su-30MKI is a good mix for the next 20+ years.
Agreed
 

IndianHawk

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Su-30 MKI : 3000 km
Su-35 : 3600 km

Su-30 MKI : 8130 kg
Su-35 : 8000 kg

Debatable, Su-30 MKI is equally good

We already have Israeli and Indian developed EW systems which are more than capable than Russian EW

The comparison is between Su-35 and Su-30 MKI

Agreed

Agreed
For maneuvering su30mki has 3D thrust vectoring ! Does su35 has it ?? If not then surely su30mki has advantage in maneuvering.
 

no smoking

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For maneuvering su30mki has 3D thrust vectoring ! Does su35 has it ?? If not then surely su30mki has advantage in maneuvering.
Su-35 does have 3D thrust.
Su-30 MKI is the first Russian fighter jet with thrust vectoring. At the time it was designed and built, Russians didn't have much experience on this. So, basically, Su-30 MKI and its engine were more like designs of experimental purpose. That is why Russian airforce itself didn't buy this type of design at the time.
With the data accumulated by Su-30 MKI service, they finally got enough knowledge and experience of TVC. Su-35 is the final product of these data: they re-design the whole internal structure, flight control, etc, to suit the TVC. And more importantly, with a new deeply upgrade engine.
 

MiG-29SMT

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Su-35 does have 3D thrust.
Su-30 MKI is the first Russian fighter jet with thrust vectoring. At the time it was designed and built, Russians didn't have much experience on this. So, basically, Su-30 MKI and its engine were more like designs of experimental purpose. That is why Russian airforce itself didn't buy this type of design at the time.
With the data accumulated by Su-30 MKI service, they finally got enough knowledge and experience of TVC. Su-35 is the final product of these data: they re-design the whole internal structure, flight control, etc, to suit the TVC. And more importantly, with a new deeply upgrade engine.
that is not true.

When they sold the technology, the Su-30 was thorughly tested, India got operational experience, but the jet was tested in the early 1990s in Russia on Su-35 and Su-37.

India got an early version why? Su-35 relies upon a more complex flight control system, it flew in 2008, so the Su-30MKI was a well designed aircraft it was finally tested before being sold to India, India got a final product.

What India got was basically a twin seat Su-35/Su-27M
1637624674372.png

this is the twin seater Su-35
1637624719108.png


 
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MiG-29SMT

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For maneuvering su30mki has 3D thrust vectoring ! Does su35 has it ?? If not then surely su30mki has advantage in maneuvering.
Su-35 has the advantage due to higher powered engines.

To understand Su-30MKI you have to understand two factors, first the canards were added to increase control on the first Su-27M, which basically is a Su-33, but let us remember Su-27M had a bigger heavier radar so the canards did add additional lift to offset the added weight.

This is the 1990s, so when India got the Su-30MKI, they asked for an extra pilot, the added canards were further enhanced by the Su-37 research, so the configuration was TCV nozzles, canards and twin seats.

the modern Su-35S has improved electronics and reduced weight, thus they deleted the canards because the lighter fuselage had higher thrust, and lower drag.

Su-30MKI can be retrofitted with AL-41s/117 engines perhaps even Type 30.

In general sense Su-35 is a pure fighter concept with multi role capability.

Su-30MKI a fighter with a strike capability too but it works more like an interceptor.

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we have to see the Su-30MKI has an equivalnet in the Su-35UB but the MKI is a customized version since the twin seater combat version was called Su-30, the single seat was Su-27M/Su-35, so the denomination Su-30MKI is just to name a twin seat version with full combat capability while the Su-35UB was only basically a trainer of the single seat Su-35/Su-27M
 
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MiG-29SMT

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Mig35 aesa is still not operational. And only 2 su57 are built. Russia is slacking.
The AESA technology is over estimated a lot, first regardles is PESA or AESA both use electromagnetic waves and both use electromagnetic steering.

In fact an AESA if it has low power will not will be able to JAM a PESA.
why? because jamming is no more than wave interference, and that is the same effect to steer the radar elecronically.

Russia is in no rush to add AESA because the main threat to aircraft are SAMs, have you seen Syria, Russia has not fired a single SAM to down F-22s or F-35s basically Syria is downing cruise missiles.

To intercept stealth aircraft you need several frequencies and a net of passive and active radars to do it, so the AESA in a single aircraft will not make a big difference in combat.

Su-35 has a lot of density power to cut through the jamming, adding the radars and SAMs you get a cheaper system.

And Syria proved it
 

no smoking

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that is not true.

When they sold the technology, the Su-30 was thorughly tested, India got operational experience, but the jet was tested in the early 1990s in Russia on Su-35 and Su-37.

India got an early version why? Su-35 relies upon a more complex flight control system, it flew in 2008, so the Su-30MKI was a well designed aircraft it was finally tested before being sold to India, India got a final product.
First of all, the early TVC technology tested in 1990s was only tech demonstration, the tests were not complete;

Secondly, I didn't say the Su-30 MKI wasn't a final product. If IAF accepted it, it certainly satisfied their standard. But as TVC was first time used, people didn't know how it was going to affect the jet body. This can only be found by years of flying. So, they still used the original Su-30 structure design. As the result, the life of some of components were much shorter. That is one of reasons the maintenance cost of Su-30 MKI was much higher.
 

MiG-29SMT

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First of all, the early TVC technology tested in 1990s was only tech demonstration, the tests were not complete;

Secondly, I didn't say the Su-30 MKI wasn't a final product. If IAF accepted it, it certainly satisfied their standard. But as TVC was first time used, people didn't know how it was going to affect the jet body. This can only be found by years of flying. So, they still used the original Su-30 structure design. As the result, the life of some of components were much shorter. That is one of reasons the maintenance cost of Su-30 MKI was much higher.
The Su-30MKI was a final product, when Russia sold it, it was not experimental, of course if you compare a early Su-30MKI to a modern and newer Su-30MS you see the newer aircraft has new updates. Su-35 entered in operational service, however Russia could not build it in higher numbers due to financial troubles.

There were a few dozen plus Su-35 operational. See it has canards.

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So the main production was took to India and only after 2010s Russia got the Su-30MKI in a Russian version.

Su-35 T-10M was so good that the Russians used for acrobatic teams.

However the Su-35S was chosen because it deleted the canards and got a better engine but it flew almost a decade after Su-30MKI

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Some were even operational but their number was small, Su-30MKI was so good that Russia has now more than 100 plus Su-30MS which in reality are Su-35UB upgraded
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This is Su-35UB

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HariPrasad-1

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Radar -> We have Uttam AESA Radar. If rumors are to be believed we shall be using scaled up version of Uttam AESA Radar on our Su-30MKI post mid life upgarde.
Engine -> As per the rumors on internet IAF was not keen on upgrading engine on Su-30MKI as cost-benefit analysis didn't show significant advantages.
Weapons -> What weapons are exclusive to Su-35 that are not available on Su-30 MKI? On the contrary most of Indian weapons are tested and integrated on Su-30MKI.
Avionic suite -> What differentiates SU-30MKI from rest of Su-30 platform is the advanced avionic suite which is a mix of French, Israeli and Indian avionic. What avionics Su-35 offers that surpasses our current suite in terms of performance and efficiency? In-fact we had replaced Russian avionics in Su-30MKI.
Very correct. We may have not replaced Russian Avionics but we have installed them from the begining may be after few intial induction.
 

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