India will continue strong defence ties with Russia

[sorcerer]

Only a fool would not mark the kind of warmth of friendship present in this statement.
It is highly lamentable that GoI is signing LEMOA, CISMOA, Lemur, Femur etc, with the villains, the Yanks. Yet, nothing in that direction with our Russian brothers.
This counts as one of the biggest failures and also one of the biggest hypocrisies of Modi Govt.

Right. USDoD is fighting a losing propaganda war against Russia. A singular TV channel RT is sufficient to debunk all the propaganda of an entire DoD machinery.

With each one what they offer!! India is trying to take in the best of what it can in the "window of opportunity".

I think India and Russians are using each others defense infrastructures for repairs and like for so long..and that "trust" part between India and Russia is already cultivated and established.

With the US
GoI would be seeing it as opportunity presented now to gain some momentum in some key areas of regional security.

Havent we seen the Nehruvian era throwing away opportunities presented by Mr.Time.

If almost all nations are doing the "balancing act" with the palette of opportunities with each other despite the differences... then why shouldnt India try and do the same "balancing act"?

 

[armyofhind]

Russian brothers

I dont suppose there is any question of brotherhood here.
In international relations, there is no question of brotherhood or friendship. There is just self interest and thats it. Nobody does anything for anyone out of benevolence.

Yet, nothing in that direction with our Russian brothers.

And the Russians do not deserve any kind of logistical pact with them too. They have an unpleasant history of trying to leech us of money. Case in point - INS Vikramaditya, Su-30 Engine supply, T-90 armor and gun specs and TOT.

This counts as one of the biggest failures and also one of the biggest hypocrisies of Modi Govt.

To the contrary, this govt is making a smart move by not putting all eggs in one basket.

So while we have Chinook, Apaches and agreements like LEMOA with US, we still have deals for collaboration on PAK-FA with the Russians.

 

[spikey360]

I dont suppose there is any question of brotherhood here.
In international relations, there is no question of brotherhood or friendship. There is just self interest and thats it. Nobody does anything for anyone out of benevolence.

Here we go again. Yet another post preaching us importance of deception, villainy and hypocrisy in international relationships due to 'national interests' and 'economic logic'.
I do hope these standards which you preach and hope you follow are advocated strictly for international and not personal relationships.

And the Russians do not deserve any kind of logistical pact with them too. They have an unpleasant history of trying to leech us of money. Case in point - INS Vikramaditya, Su-30 Engine supply, T-90 armor and gun specs and TOT.

Oh and what did the Yanks do to deserve this pact? Broadcast their TV serials in HD channels 'on the same day as US premiere'?
But seriously, what did the US do for Bharat? Ever?

To the contrary, this govt is making a smart move by not putting all eggs in one basket.

So while we have Chinook, Apaches and agreements like LEMOA with US, we still have deals for collaboration on PAK-FA with the Russians.

Another typical middleman attitude. No wonder Russia is up there amongst the world's most sovereign and powerful nations. Could you elucidate what eggs you are putting in whose basket with CISMOA and LEMOA?

 

[spikey360]

With the US
GoI would be seeing it as opportunity presented now to gain some momentum in some key areas of regional security.

So, now we need to lean on the Yanks for regional security?
From your words one would get the idea that Bharat is becoming weaker by the passing day and playing a losing game, if not for the US.

If almost all nations are doing the "balancing act" with the palette of opportunities with each other despite the differences... then why shouldnt India try and do the same "balancing act"?

Which are these "almost all" nations which are balancing everything? Kindly enumerate.

 

[Arjun25]

India To Buy Kalibr Cruise Missiles From Russia

 

[Arjun25]

India & Russia Will Set Up $300 Million Logistics Hub For Su30MKI

 

[armyofhind]

Here we go again. Yet another post preaching us importance of deception, villainy and hypocrisy in international relationships due to 'national interests' and 'economic logic'.
I do hope these standards which you preach and hope you follow are advocated strictly for international and not personal relationships.

No need to get personal here unless you want it to become a mud-slinging match or a battle of rhetoric. That'll be useless and entirely avoidable.
I think Ive written quite clearly "INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS" so your rhetorical question here is irrelevant.

If you really believe that the Russians have supported us out of "brotherly love", then you're most welcome to backup that claim with facts. All ears.

As far as my appreciation goes, India has nothing in common with Russia for it to support us like a friend. We dont share their ideology, we dont share their demographics, and neither are we an erstwhile communist power.

Oh and what did the Yanks do to deserve this pact? Broadcast their TV serials in HD channels 'on the same day as US premiere'?
But seriously, what did the US do for Bharat? Ever?

Nothing. when did I say that the Yanks did anything?
We have ordered equipment from them to which the Russians dont have a contemporary as far as performance or combat record goes. So thats the logical choice.

Another typical middleman attitude. No wonder Russia is up there amongst the world's most sovereign and powerful nations. Could you elucidate what eggs you are putting in whose basket with CISMOA and LEMOA?

Russia's returning status as a centre of power in the east is most welcome. The global balance of power would shift towards a median. But do you really think India can match that yet? Unlikely.

As far as CISMOA or LEMOA goes, their importance is being blown out of proportion. They are routine agreements which the US signs with any nation to increase cooperation with them. So what's the harm?

 

[sorcerer]

So, now we need to lean on the Yanks for regional security?
From your words one would get the idea that Bharat is becoming weaker by the passing day and playing a losing game, if not for the US.

Noooo...Not leaning on Yanks..
We have to accept one fact that Indian ocean is becoming more and more of a transit hub for many nations. India is taking the lead initiative to make it more safe and free for every nation despite chinese claims of hegemony in the region.

Bhrath is not becoming weaker ..its becoming SMARTER by trading smart in diplomatic deals presented by every participant who wants to protect their interest in the IOR..

International routes are everyones responsibility and India is taking the Lead initiative as India has a good reputation of abiding by the contractual rules and International arbitrations unlike some ass nations.

Bharath becoming weak is just a perception or how someone look at things..Its not ..in actuality Bharath is becoming Smarter and Getting Support as it is showing the guts to play a lead role in ITS REGION.
We can get this from the fact how nervous the chinese are feeling despite them trying to down play affairs.

Which are these "almost all" nations which are balancing everything? Kindly enumerate.

Japan trying to go ahead with Russia keeping the differences aside.
http://www.business-standard.com/ar...-ties-with-vladimir-putin-116090200279_1.html

Russian-US cooperation on HEU
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megatons_to_Megawatts_Program

Russians are providing tech to china..c'mon Being close to India didn't prevent Russia to sell its latest tech to china!!
We got a lot of such discussion on this very forum.
Aint it all a kind of balancing act for national interest of every nation?

 

[spikey360]

As far as CISMOA or LEMOA goes, their importance is being blown out of proportion. They are routine agreements which the US signs with any nation to increase cooperation with them. So what's the harm?

I'll tell you what the harm is. It is like aiding the hand which feeds the enemy.
USA sends aids, jets and pulls several strings so that Pakistan survives as an entity. Something which Bharat is aiming to dismantle since 1965. It also send warships to aid Pakistan during 1971 war. Atleast the logic enemy of enemy=friend makes sense. What you are suggesting is friend of enemy = friend. Completely preposterous and dangerous.
These will harm Bharat in the long run when Yanks camp here and suddenly decide one fine day, hey, let's make war in neighbourhood and use these bases as re-supply zones. Of course, there is this "clause" of this being peace time agreement, void during war. However, war does not have rules. Given a choice, one would like to keep the friend of our enemy as far from our military assets as possible. And if this does not sound like a logical to you, then, all the luck.

We have ordered equipment from them to which the Russians dont have a contemporary as far as performance or combat record goes. So thats the logical choice.

Chinook? Apache?
You make us laugh.
Have you ever heard of Mi26? Heard of Mi24?
Are you aware of their modernised versions being in service with Russian armed forces as well as Indian Armed Forces?

If you really believe that the Russians have supported us out of "brotherly love", then you're most welcome to backup that claim with facts. All ears.

Ok. 1971. Why did the erstwhile USSR send Soviet Cruisers, Destroyers and Nuclear submarines to support India?
Because we had signed a pact of Peace, Friendship and Cooperation. I hope you do not deny that fact. And certainly Indira Gandhi did not sign those pacts with people she did not consider friends of the Indian people.
Also note the kind of support we received from the Russians after Smiling Buddha and Pokhran nuclear tests. When US were hitting us with sanctions, the Russians kept supplying us with whatever we required. Hope you see the facts and not deny them. It is wise to remember history when approaching international relations.

 

[spikey360]

Japan trying to go ahead with Russia keeping the differences aside.
http://www.business-standard.com/ar...-ties-with-vladimir-putin-116090200279_1.html

Russian-US cooperation on HEU
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megatons_to_Megawatts_Program

Russians are providing tech to china..c'mon Being close to India didn't prevent Russia to sell its latest tech to china!!
We got a lot of such discussion on this very forum.
Aint it all a kind of balancing act for national interest of every nation?

Shinzo Abe visting Russia is being considered path-breaking. Therefore, consider the chill which existed in their relations already. And no, a visit does not necessarily mean cooperation. Even Modi visited Pakistan.
As for US and Russia cooperation goes, they all happen in paper. In reality all these cooperation are heavily clouded by domestic politics. Russia used to sell cryogenic engines to NASA. Now, due to US politics, NASA is not buying anymore and US astronauts have to go through Baikanour into ISS. So the interaction of both these countries are on the levels of compulsion, mandated strictly by the MAD theory.
As far as China goes, they were always on the Russian side. We should make Russia join our side and ask them to tame China as well. Instead of using that kind of leverage we are throwing it away on a nation which aids and abets Pakistan.
Shame.

 

[sorcerer]

Shinzo Abe visting Russia is being considered path-breaking. Therefore, consider the chill which existed in their relations already. And no, a visit does not necessarily mean cooperation. Even Modi visited Pakistan.
As for US and Russia cooperation goes, they all happen in paper. In reality all these cooperation are heavily clouded by domestic politics. Russia used to sell cryogenic engines to NASA. Now, due to US politics, NASA is not buying anymore and US astronauts have to go through Baikanour into ISS. So the interaction of both these countries are on the levels of compulsion, mandated strictly by the MAD theory.
As far as China goes, they were always on the Russian side. We should make Russia join our side and ask them to tame China as well. Instead of using that kind of leverage we are throwing it away on a nation which aids and abets Pakistan.
Shame.

Modi visited pakistan and pakistan did what exacty India expected it to do..That showed the world how dented pakistan is.
Meaning we can expect pakistaniyat at any given point of time. Whores like pakistan don't do deals..they do tricks!!

Absolutely...Mere visits doesnt necessarily mean cooperation..but cooperation is what comes after the leads visit to each others nation..something that happened along the lines of US with India and INdia with USA.

GoI should get things done with the new understanding with US and NOT go UNDER the influence of US. This part is the tricky part and hope GoI plays it well.

Its not about having leverage..but India should truly have the weight behind the leverage to get things done. The aircraft carrier construction incident is a reminder that India should look at many options in real world but still give advantage to our trusted partner Russia.

USA abets pakistan thats sure..and US cannot be trusted at all..and India knows it better than anyone..but if India could corner , isolate, pakistan and stop the funding it gets from US which pak was flaunting on terrorism, till we put our own checks in place to counter pakistan..thats in a way good!

India has cripped pakistan many times despite pak having GOOD support of USA..that itself shows that INDIA doesnt require US help in tackling pakistan or totalling it. We all know India's proven record in fighting war and winning it. USA knows it much better by now.

As I said...get whatever we can when the opportunity presents itself..get to a higher ground and not lean on any affiliations too much.

 

[sorcerer]

Defence Ties With US Will Not Affect Relations With Russia: Indian Envoy
Indian Ambassador to Russia Pankaj Saran today rejected suggestions that his country's relationship, especially, the growing defence ties with the US, would affect relations with Russia.

'' The foreign policy of India which we pursue, and particularly our relations with Russia are completely independent of our relations with any other country,'' Mr Saran said in an interview to Russian news agency Interfax.

He said that despite all major changes in the world, relationship with Russia was the only one that remained by large unchanged, and had rather grown even stronger over time.
''We have no political differences. We have a lot of trust and mutual confidence in each other and above all there is today a good and positive relationship between our Prime Minister and the President of Russia,'' .

Mr Saran's response came in reply to the question as to whether
The military contracts with the USA and the fact that the US had declared India as its majir defense partner mean that India was turnibg to the US, which might harm relations with Moscow.

Replying to another question, the Ambassador said India was holding discussions with Russia on modernizing its military, air force and navy. ''Right now I would say that we are in discussion on many platforms, and and S-400 defence system was one of them,'' he said.

Mr Saran underlined that India wanted to change the India-Russia Defence relationship from that a buyer and seller to that of collaborators. ''We have invited the Russian defense industry and the Russian defense establishment and factories and enterprises to participate in the establishment of joint ventures, in co-production and in the transfer of technologies to Indian companies under the Make in India program.

When asked whether New Delhi considered the four-party talks on Afghanistan (USA, China, Pakistan and Afghanistan) as effective, Mr Saran said no outsider could find a solution to Afghanistan.

''This is the lesson we have learnt during the last many years in other parts of the world you cannot impose a solution, a solution has to come from within Afghanistan.''
The first and most important requirement in Afghanistan is that all external interference and external intervention must stop, he stressed.

I do not believe that any self-styled group can find a solution to Afghanistan. Without the involvement of the counties of the region it will be very difficult to find a solution to the problem in Afghanistan. India has always been ready to help Afghanistan find a solution, whether it is between India and Afghanistan or in any other format,'' he said.

Source>>

 

[Chinmoy]

Yes thats true...MTCR part is quite confusing..Dont know if there is some sort of delay in establishing the procedures with the membership.


The choice would be with the Range Kaliber is good at.
May be KALIBER will be a FILLER till our own NIRBHAY system matures.

“The strengths of the “Kalibr” are its high precision and the ability to hit well-protected objects, including control and air defence facilities centres”, Lavrov said. “The most important thing is the surprise effect. When there is an air raid, the enemy has time to react, but cruise missiles strike unexpectedly. In addition, “Kalibr” has an advantage – it can manoeuvre and hit the target from unexpected directions.”

He also drew attention to another important aspect of the export of new cruise missiles.

“’Kalibr’ has the feature of using high-precision satellite guidance, and hence, its application requires very close cooperation in the military sphere, as the Indians will have to grant access to the three-dimensional model of the Earth, maps, terrain and the GLONASS military frequencies,” said Lavrov. “Such opportunities are not just given to anybody, only the closest allies.
https://in.rbth.com/economics/defen...eks-calibr-cruise-missiles-from-russia_626215

...
This will sent the paki mujra group of paki defence establishment a strong message that Russian -India Partnership is still large and kicking .

As I suspected.......

India planning to buy Russian Kalibr cruise missiles, says report

http://www.janes.com/article/63407/india-planning-to-buy-russian-kalibr-cruise-missiles-says-report

However, when contacted by IHS Jane's , the Indian Navy categorically denied having asked Russia for its Kalibr missile system.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Russians have a monopoly on Indian cruise missiles. There are many things learned in nirbhay development that I am sure will reappear in the future. During development of Brahmos many things learned were use to develop imo the best Indian missile shaurya .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pmaitra]

The Kalibr cruise missile has terrain mapping guidance. It needs terrain data for it to follow a path. How does one acquire the data-set to feed the missile before it can be launched?

 

[spikey360]

The Kalibr cruise missile has terrain mapping guidance. It needs terrain data for it to follow a path. How does one acquire the data-set to feed the missile before it can be launched?

That kind of data can be obtained from a lot of private companies.

 

[sorcerer]

The UPA did not move forward at all on this strategic embrace during its decade in power. This is probably because it was caught up in the web of its own policy history on Nehruvian non-alignment, Indira Gandhi’s time as a satellite of the USSR, and pathological fear of Chinese umbrage carried over into the Manmohan Singh regime.

For, India, LEMOA, its own $150 billion defence shopping list inclusive of Make in India over the next decade and its Modi doctrine of “enlightened self-interest” puts it in a unique position. It’s the biggest defence purchase wish-list in the world.

Meanwhile, at this juncture of geo-political imperatives, a military alliance with the US acts as a great equaliser vis-a-vis China and gives India time to build up its independent military readiness. Besides, America is not willing, anymore than its NATO or ANZAC allies, plus the emerging realignments in South/South East Asia, to give China any kind of walkover in the world dominance stakes.

Instead, China will have to eat a little crow and re-evaluate its own options. It must realise that it is deeply isolated, with only a couple of unstable rogue states in the form of Pakistan and North Korea for company. China’s old “string of pearls” strategy of encirclement of India via inducements to Myanmar, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Afghanistan, Nepal, the Maldives, Bhutan etc., now lies in tatters. And Xi Jinping’s grandiose “belt and road” initiative, figuratively taking off from the Old Silk Route is viewed with suspicion in every part of its immediate neighbourhood.

As for India’s tried and tested ties with Russia, there will be no let up, and many military initiatives in parallel are indeed on the anvil. But yes, an edge of competition has already crept in and should work altogether in India’s favour. This has already been borne out in the nuclear power context, not only with Russia but also with France and the US—all supplying reactors and know-how.

http://www.sundayguardianlive.com/opinion/6309-china-should-worry-about-india-us-lemoa

 

[mayfair]

India and Russia can ill afford to distance each other. Do remember, that despite the "emerging bonhomie" in Indo-US relations, we are yet to purchase truly sensitive weapons systems from them and it's likely to stay that way.

It's more of a cautious embrace at best. India remains wary of Unkil Sam and rightfully so. I believe GoI has kept Russia in the loop over these developments. Russia too in the light of sanctions, realises that US and Western Europe still view them partly through the prism of Cold-war era..whether it's because the cold-war mandarins are at the head of politco-military-intelligence institutions in these countries, or the desire to never let Russia rise again, the objectives are the same. Do remember that India quietly stood by Russian positions both in Ukraine and Syria- showing the proverbial middle finger to the West and their local agents.

Russia is also wary of China, due to unresolved issues of the past and do remember that China has not renounced its claims over large tracts of Siberia and Kamchatka peninsula in particular. Of course, perennial stealing of Russian designs and calling them their own are always there.

If you read between the lines, Indo-Russian relations and agreements are where the real business seems to be done, all very quietly and unobtrusively. Indo-US relations are more flashy and pompous in comparison.

Eventually, what GoI is doing is pursuing our national interests and that requires some deft maneuvering and charting our own course.

 

[Chinmoy]

The Kalibr cruise missile has terrain mapping guidance. It needs terrain data for it to follow a path. How does one acquire the data-set to feed the missile before it can be launched?

Cartographic and Geoportal satellite feed are one of the most used data feed system.

 

[sorcerer]

Now, India turns to Russia for mega defence deals


Highlights

1. Defence ministry said negotiations for mega defence projects with Russia are "well on track"
2. India and Russia to jointly develop futuristic 5th generation fighter aircrafts
3. India is set to acquire S-400 Triumf advanced air defence missile systems from Russia

NEW DELHI: After a pronounced tilt towards the US in terms of defence deals and military-to-military ties over the last decade, further reinforced by the recent inking of the bilateral logistics pact+ , India has reassured Russia that their traditional strategic partnership will continue on its upward trajectory.

Defence ministry sources said negotiations for mega defence projects with Russia like joint development of the futuristic fifth generation fighter aircraft+ (FGFA) and Kamov Ka-226T light utility helicopters were "well on track" after being stalled for some time.

Similarly, major defence deals with Russia, ranging from the Rs 39,000 crore acquisition of five S-400 Triumf advanced air defence missile systems to the $1.5 billion lease of a second nuclear-powered submarine, are also in the offing.

India already operates a nuclear-powered Akula-II submarine christened INS Chakra, which was acquired on a 10-year lease from Russia in April 2012 under a $900 million deal inked earlier.

All this is reflected in the flurry of top-level bilateral meetings to be held in the coming days. The 16th meeting of the India-Russia Military Technical Cooperation Working Group, for instance, will be held on Wednesday and Thursday.

The Indian delegation will be led by the director-general of defence acquisitions in the meeting, which will include the inking of a joint protocol. Concurrently , the two countries will also hold a top meeting on shipbuilding, aviation and land systems, which will be co-chaired by the defence production secretary from India.

The fine balance India is trying to strike between the two erstwhile Cold War rivals is also evident in the way the Indian Army will hold combat exercises with US and Russian forces this month.

The 'Yudh Abhyas' exercise between US troops from Fort Louis and Madras Regiment soldiers will be held at Chaubatia in Uttarakhand from September 14 to 27. The 'Indra' exercise between Russian soldiers and Kuma on Regiment troops will be held at Vladivostok from September 22 to October 2.

After Indian, US and Japanese warships conducted the top-notch Malabar exercise off Okinawa in June, India and Russia will hold their Indra naval wargames in the Indian Ocean


"Russia was worried whether India wanted to continue complex projects like the FGFA. We have expressed our keenness to ink the final R&D design contract for the Indian 'perspective multi-role fighter' (based on the Russian FGFA called Sukhoi T-50 or PAK-FA) in 2016-2017," said a source.

India, however, has conveyed that it is not interested in the proposed joint development of the multi-role transport aircraft (MTA) due to the twin-engine plane's cost-viability, delivery timelines and failure to meet high-altitude requirements.



TOI had earlier reported that the US was currently unwilling to offer help to India in nuclear propulsion for the proposed construction of its largest-ever warship, the 65,000-tonne aircraft carrier INS Vishal. In effect, the US-Russia rivalry to woo India in the military arena continues.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...r-mega-defence-deals/articleshow/54039916.cms