India US Relations

skunk works

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what exactly are the US going to do here - i mean publicaly via so called direct state diplomacy . apart from what they can already do via NGO and everything else ?

kerala has a communist gov for now . they are not exactly big fans of US gov . these people pushed linux/open source software on gov/schools because they didnt want to give bill gates even 1 paisa - something that could have been tried on national level
Obligatory f**k Gates and f**k Microsoft products. How can one company make so many bad products.
 

Hari Sud

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US Hurt India by Arming an unstable State.

US has already spoken. What they spoke was that India’s refusal to listen to US about purchase of major Russian weapons by india (S-400), purchase of cheap Russian oil and finally not falling behind US in condemning Russian invasion of Ukraine is not sitting well with the current US Administration.

It took them 2 years to reorient American South Asia policy and finally they spoke. They did not blame India directly for not following the American dictates. They simply decided to upgrade the Pakistani Airforce with $450 million cost. What is included in this upgrade is not fully known but India hope that F-16 upgrade does not include the frame upgrade to carry nuclear weapons and worst of all 120 km Beyond Visual Range air to air missiles.

Pakistan was overjoyed with this announcement and India had a long face. A few mild and strong protests by india were of no avail. Even Modi’s rebuke to Putin that this is not era armed invasion directly meant for the US audience was of no avail.

All those Modi effort of 8 years to mend fences with America was of no avail. When the US Administration changed two years back, all that hard work done was dumped. The Democrats in US have never been friendly in our short and long memory.

Now what will be next Indian move after this jolt, nobody knows, but something has to be done to restore the balance. If we cancel proposed large Indian purchases of highly sophisticated UAVs and possible purchase of naval F-18 fighter jets for our aircraft carrier, India will be a bigger looser. Hence….. What next.

I will suggest that India become lukewarm to American proposal of QUAD. Although not much has been achieved in last PM/President meet in May this year in Tokyo, yet America wants concrete steps to safeguard the China Sea and Indo-Pacific. America has withdrawn from many bases the previous 7th US Fleet occupied, it wants QUAD to shoulder the responsibility to counter the threat from China. India‘s lack of interest could be shown by letting them know that American military supplies to Pakistan had increased threats to India in Indian Ocean itself hence they cannot be actively supportive.

For India QUAD had a value because it will prevent Pakistan and China jointly attacking India. Now India has to watch a spoiled Pakistan and aggressive China.

India’s hurt feeling could be further assuaged by sending $50 billion of FDI not FII to India to relocate some manufacturing business from China. That will help too.
 

AnantS

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And it was the Democrats who imposed sanctions on India in 1998, who blocked the Cyrogenic Engine, who continued Pak ties well into 2011. So yes, demonrats are evil liberals.
true, all I am saying is doesn't matter whos in power they are always in tune with deep state and had consistent in policy of carrot and stick. Trump was slight disruption in the usual see saw Ind-US relation(for internal US politics he was massive disruption - such a massive that their own republican oligarchs Bush family and many more spoke democrat language to criticize him)
 

Kumaoni

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true, all I am saying is doesn't matter whos in power they are always in tune with deep state and had consistent in policy of carrot and stick. Trump was slight disruption in the usual see saw Ind-US relation(for internal US politics he was massive disruption - such a massive that their own republican oligarchs Bush family and many more spoke democrat language to criticize him)
Americunts are subhumans so we can’t expect IQ from them.
 

assassin162

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US Hurt India by Arming an unstable State.

US has already spoken. What they spoke was that India’s refusal to listen to US about purchase of major Russian weapons by india (S-400), purchase of cheap Russian oil and finally not falling behind US in condemning Russian invasion of Ukraine is not sitting well with the current US Administration.

It took them 2 years to reorient American South Asia policy and finally they spoke. They did not blame India directly for not following the American dictates. They simply decided to upgrade the Pakistani Airforce with $450 million cost. What is included in this upgrade is not fully known but India hope that F-16 upgrade does not include the frame upgrade to carry nuclear weapons and worst of all 120 km Beyond Visual Range air to air missiles.

Pakistan was overjoyed with this announcement and India had a long face. A few mild and strong protests by india were of no avail. Even Modi’s rebuke to Putin that this is not era armed invasion directly meant for the US audience was of no avail.

All those Modi effort of 8 years to mend fences with America was of no avail. When the US Administration changed two years back, all that hard work done was dumped. The Democrats in US have never been friendly in our short and long memory.

Now what will be next Indian move after this jolt, nobody knows, but something has to be done to restore the balance. If we cancel proposed large Indian purchases of highly sophisticated UAVs and possible purchase of naval F-18 fighter jets for our aircraft carrier, India will be a bigger looser. Hence….. What next.

I will suggest that India become lukewarm to American proposal of QUAD. Although not much has been achieved in last PM/President meet in May this year in Tokyo, yet America wants concrete steps to safeguard the China Sea and Indo-Pacific. America has withdrawn from many bases the previous 7th US Fleet occupied, it wants QUAD to shoulder the responsibility to counter the threat from China. India‘s lack of interest could be shown by letting them know that American military supplies to Pakistan had increased threats to India in Indian Ocean itself hence they cannot be actively supportive.

For India QUAD had a value because it will prevent Pakistan and China jointly attacking India. Now India has to watch a spoiled Pakistan and aggressive China.

India’s hurt feeling could be further assuaged by sending $50 billion of FDI not FII to India to relocate some manufacturing business from China. That will help too.
As if this is the first step. First they undermined it through activating AUKUS showing that they only trust their anglo saxons brothers. Biden after coming to office and even before that had made it clear where he stands. India adjusted it's policies with Pakistan and China just before Biden took office. Nothng surprises us.
Regarding how to reply. We just have to keep strengthening BRICS and that is the perfect answer. Some big military deal between India and Russia at this moment will also be perfect. ALSO, QUAD is a joke, non starter as US is not willing to help us out economically or in military technology in lieu of us doing their bIdding in Pacifics. They want us to be their loyal dog and that too for free.
 

Samaritan

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US Hurt India by Arming an unstable State.

US has already spoken. What they spoke was that India’s refusal to listen to US about purchase of major Russian weapons by india (S-400), purchase of cheap Russian oil and finally not falling behind US in condemning Russian invasion of Ukraine is not sitting well with the current US Administration.

It took them 2 years to reorient American South Asia policy and finally they spoke. They did not blame India directly for not following the American dictates. They simply decided to upgrade the Pakistani Airforce with $450 million cost. What is included in this upgrade is not fully known but India hope that F-16 upgrade does not include the frame upgrade to carry nuclear weapons and worst of all 120 km Beyond Visual Range air to air missiles.

Pakistan was overjoyed with this announcement and India had a long face. A few mild and strong protests by india were of no avail. Even Modi’s rebuke to Putin that this is not era armed invasion directly meant for the US audience was of no avail.

All those Modi effort of 8 years to mend fences with America was of no avail. When the US Administration changed two years back, all that hard work done was dumped. The Democrats in US have never been friendly in our short and long memory.

Now what will be next Indian move after this jolt, nobody knows, but something has to be done to restore the balance. If we cancel proposed large Indian purchases of highly sophisticated UAVs and possible purchase of naval F-18 fighter jets for our aircraft carrier, India will be a bigger looser. Hence….. What next.

I will suggest that India become lukewarm to American proposal of QUAD. Although not much has been achieved in last PM/President meet in May this year in Tokyo, yet America wants concrete steps to safeguard the China Sea and Indo-Pacific. America has withdrawn from many bases the previous 7th US Fleet occupied, it wants QUAD to shoulder the responsibility to counter the threat from China. India‘s lack of interest could be shown by letting them know that American military supplies to Pakistan had increased threats to India in Indian Ocean itself hence they cannot be actively supportive.

For India QUAD had a value because it will prevent Pakistan and China jointly attacking India. Now India has to watch a spoiled Pakistan and aggressive China.

India’s hurt feeling could be further assuaged by sending $50 billion of FDI not FII to India to relocate some manufacturing business from China. That will help too.
This was always coming , If you look carefully the chemistry between the Biden and Modi from the start , you will release this. Trump supported India much more than any other US precedent ever .
my view is that US India relations will remain like this and we should not expect much out of it.
US actually is our first enemy , They always sided with India's enemies.
It is very nature of US to drag their partners in war and use them and their resources. They tried this with India too by taking advantage of Galwan but India played hard ball. People may feel like India surrendered to China , but it is not advisable to go for war unless it's last resort for country like ours.
I do not question the Indian Armed forces , they can take on any technology and country for that matter , but economy is main heart in today's world and war is easiest way to drain your economy so restrained with China was in the interest of the nation and we did well so far.
US loosing it's plot on energy and so on the economy , oil countries are siding with Russia and it's going to skyrocket soon in winter making EU suffer.UK is on verge of decline , US is loosing their allies and Ukraine war will decide emergence of new axis and world dependence on dollar will look for the alternate options
If oil producing countries decides to boycott dollar trade , it will start beginning of the end of dollar dependent economy.
I see US invading any other midlist country to disturbed the oil market to take control of world energy market.
 

anirban8

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This was always coming , If you look carefully the chemistry between the Biden and Modi from the start , you will release this. Trump supported India much more than any other US precedent ever .
my view is that US India relations will remain like this and we should not expect much out of it.
US actually is our first enemy , They always sided with India's enemies.
It is very nature of US to drag their partners in war and use them and their resources. They tried this with India too by taking advantage of Galwan but India played hard ball. People may feel like India surrendered to China , but it is not advisable to go for war unless it's last resort for country like ours.
I do not question the Indian Armed forces , they can take on any technology and country for that matter , but economy is main heart in today's world and war is easiest way to drain your economy so restrained with China was in the interest of the nation and we did well so far.
US loosing it's plot on energy and so on the economy , oil countries are siding with Russia and it's going to skyrocket soon in winter making EU suffer.UK is on verge of decline , US is loosing their allies and Ukraine war will decide emergence of new axis and world dependence on dollar will look for the alternate options
If oil producing countries decides to boycott dollar trade , it will start beginning of the end of dollar dependent economy.
I see US invading any other midlist country to disturbed the oil market to take control of world energy market.
I think it is good that US is playing the pak card might buy us some years of peace with our larger neighbour which would be crucial for our economic development
 

NoobWannaLearn

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r/Indiandefence is filled with nri liberals lmao when you counter them you get nothing but jibes of being a rw and bhakt
 

ezsasa

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Do you support the nuclear deal? There are times where I think that we shouldn't have gone for the nuclear deal.
nuclear deal was not just about the nuclear tech, which didn't happen anyways since that company itself went under later.

it was a moment in history where a historical geo-political wrong got corrected, there was no reason for India-U.S diplomatic relationship to be premised on acrimony any longer, especially since cold war was over for some years by then. 123 nuclear deal was one of the first geo-political agreements where India U.S signed a dotted line.

nuclear deal opened flood gates to access to tech and products. there is an interview by an ex-ISRO chairman where he was saying project were stuck because of not being able to buy a single wafer.

India was already a trillion $ economy by then, americans knew India will grow in the future.

if we add up pros and cons since then, i think it would be a net positive. we are a regional player, we have to learn to manage relationships instead of shunning them.
 

Hari Sud

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What does economic and political instability leads to in Pakistan

With economic and political stability at the bottom of the barrel and then floods ravaging havoc in southern Pakistan, one can always start speculating what is next for Pakistan. It probably is getting ready for military take over once again. Currently the foreign policy is run by the Army. Very soon the economy will be in the hands of the Army also. All they need is an excuse or instability developing with civil government‘s failure or failed upcoming election results etc.

All the foreign policy changes which came to light with Pakistani Army providing co-ordinates for Zawahiri killing, US right away approving $450 million F-16 upgrade to Old and out of date Pakistani airforce, US voting to allow $6 billion IMF loan, US Ambassador’s visit to occupied Kashmir, two US coast guard vessel visiting Pakistani ports after a lapse of 6 years, Pakistani Army Chief given red carpet welcome at Pentagon and most important of all….. removing Imran Khan from PM‘s job were not all isolated incidents. Diplomacy had been going on behind the scene for months with the Army and not with the civil government. These all changes happening so quick means that everything had been narrowed down to the last details and we only came to know it only now.

Precedents exist…. Ayub Khan took over in fifties after political instability, Yahya Khan and Zia Ul Haq took over after major military debacle and political instability and then last of all Musharraf wished war with India and not shaking hands. Hence all military takeovers came as a result of civilian failures.

Currently the economy is in the dumps, and has been in the dumps for greater part of last decade. It cannot import raw materials like cotton because no money hence textile mills have been shutdown and many more. There is no chance for improvements even if all the tranches of IMF loans arrive. Reasons…... the Army will grab a bulk of it. If the civilian government objects then the Army takeover is a near certainty.

When all this happens, the American Administration will smile from the sidelines and so will the Chinese who are hard pressed to get their $60 billion road completed or get any of their money back. Sick and tired Pakistani public will smile too as the Army gets all the internal political, economic and foreign policy powers.

Ayub, Zia or Musharraf could not change the economic fortunes of an average Pakistani, at all. They all came and went and nothing changed. That may happen all over again. Whether the Army will sound the war drums with India again, it is not certain. India has to ignore and continue with the task of economic build.
 

Indx TechStyle

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lol, in 90s it was said Republicans are evil towards India, and democrats/cue clinton's) are sympathetic to India in news articles :D
And it was the Democrats who imposed sanctions on India in 1998, who blocked the Cyrogenic Engine, who continued Pak ties well into 2011. So yes, demonrats are evil liberals.
true, all I am saying is doesn't matter whos in power they are always in tune with deep state and had consistent in policy of carrot and stick. Trump was slight disruption in the usual see saw Ind-US relation(for internal US politics he was massive disruption - such a massive that their own republican oligarchs Bush family and many more spoke democrat language to criticize him)
Democrats also contributed a lot to China's rise as well.

It isn't that either of US political factions likes India but Democrats have a special antipathy as far as India is concerned. Maybe, they believe in G2 project.
 

Suryavanshi

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Democrats also contributed a lot to China's rise as well.

It isn't that either of US political factions likes India but Democrats have a special antipathy as far as India is concerned. Maybe, they believe in G2 project.
Mate I don't think anybody likes us be it demorat, republicuck or green party.
Indian Polices need to be framed assuming that we enjoy no support from anywhere else in the world, if help does come than it is welcome,
 

Love Charger

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Mate I don't think anybody likes us be it demorat, republicuck or green party.
Indian Polices need to be framed assuming that we enjoy no support from anywhere else in the world, if help does come than it is welcome,
Our existence is in no one's interest sir.even
Bloody nepliyas wish unto us their ill will .
Less said about bakstanis , America and west the better.
Others don't care , we need a very self centred ,cold blooded and calculated foreign policy and ofcourse must not expect any undue favours from any country.
 

Varoon2

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Thing is, India is in no way responsible for communism, Stalinism or Putinism in Russia, or any Russian misdeeds in different places. The US( and the UK, particularly in the early years of the state) bears a large responsibility for Pakistan's behaviour, as well as its military orientation/domination. What the US and other countries give to Pakistan, directly impacts India. Whereas India's relations with Russia, now and through the last 60 years, is meant for India's benefit, Russia benefits by having an outlet to sell products and services to India. The US and the Western countries are not directly threatened by this arrangement. It's basically their greed that is affected. Greed or economic domination is not India's motivation vis-a-vis Pakistan.
 

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