India US Relations

[srevster]

sure.

in the 80's Japanese used to take these risks, now Americans are taking it, 10-20 years from now Indians may start taking these risks. these are trends, they come and go across time and space. 800 years ago, Indian merchants used to build grand bazaars and temples in arab countries for the towns they did business in, its was an VC investment of that time.

Do the penniless college graduate appreciate VC funding? Yes.
Does the government of India appreciate VC finding ? Yes.
Is it the need of the hour in India? Yes.
Is it a charity being done with goodness from heart? No.
Is it a business model? Yes.
Will the trend change in the future? Yes.

Agreed with everything you said.

 

[Optimistic Nihilist]

You have a stupid belief that Indian Americans don’t carry values or tradition. You are trying to desperately to put me in a bucket. This has nothing to do with religion. Indians carry a VIP culture they adopted from British Raj. Coming to America helped me decolonize. I don’t consider others beneath me.

your first trope is that Indian Americans forsake culture in order to succeed by sucking up to the white man.

you belittle my worth saying I’m not values here more than a coolie. But that reeks of jealousy.
My response BC is that what is wrong with being a coolie. It’s someone who works hard, makes an honest wage providing a service to others. Looking down on coolies is not Indian culture . It’s what the British Raj used to do. You reek of corruption and look down on merit.

looking down and judging fellow Indians is a mindset weak Indians carried. It’s the same trait British used to divide and conquer Indians. Why can’t you support the Indian American community and instead say; we are there for you if you need us. Your attitude reeks of incompetence and small mindedness.

You smell of insecurity and panic. What, did I hit a nerve? Why did you get so worked up? I never said ALL indian-Americans abandon their values. I've met a LOT who have, but there a few who don't. It's easy to tell which category you fall in. Don't worry, I know what you mean by "decolonize".

Again, I am not accusing all Indian-Americans of subservience and sycophancy. Only you.

And I didn't call you a coolie. I said you're a brown coolie. A brown sepoy, if you will. People who, during colonization, used to oppress, mock and look down upon their own people and served the British.

No one here judged you, at first. You were the one who started abusing, labeling and insulting people here. If you can't handle the heat, then get out of the kitchen. Don't talk shit if you can't handle the response. Either rectify your behavior and talk in a respectful way or take it like a man when you are responded in kind.

I don't need to treat Indian-Americans any differently than how I treat anybody else. You'll get what you give. If you talk like a human being, then I'll talk to you with a similar kind of attitude. You start abusing people back in India because they are so inferior than you who lives in America and earns dollars and hobnobs with beautiful white people, get ready to face similar abuse in return.

And god forbid, that I get jealous of you. I would rather live on a modest sum, but have a strong connection to my people, my religion, my culture and my history, than be a self-loathing billionaire.

 

[Cheran]

India, atm, is at the most pro US stand ever, i believe.

If US needs commitments like cornering Iran, severely curtailing Russian relationship or saying "yes" to each & every resolution that US brings in UN, that would be a non starter.

There are huge chunks of the Indian population that are virulently/inherently anti US like Islamists & Communists. They make public anti US statements. This does not necessarily mean that any future dispensation that forms with the help of this demographic will work to curtail relations.

Relationship should be based on mutual respect & mutual NON FRACKING INTERFERENCE.

IF the incumbent American regime thinks that it can trash "non interference" to appease a section of its loud domestic constituents then things will be in a slippery slope.

So the newly appointed Ambassdor, if approved by India, will have his work cut out - find new areas of convergence & eliminate irritants, not create new ones.

 

[srevster]

You smell of insecurity and panic. What, did I hit a nerve? Why did you get so worked up? I never said ALL indian-Americans abandon their values. I've met a LOT who have, but there a few who don't. It's easy to tell which category you fall in. Don't worry, I know what you mean by "decolonize".

Again, I am not accusing all Indian-Americans of subservience and sycophancy. Only you.

And I didn't call you a coolie. I said you're a brown coolie. A brown sepoy, if you will. People who, during colonization, used to oppress, mock and look down upon their own people and served the British.

No one here judged you, at first. You were the one who started abusing, labeling and insulting people here. If you can't handle the heat, then get out of the kitchen. Don't talk shit if you can't handle the response. Either rectify your behavior and talk in a respectful way or take it like a man when you are responded in kind.

I don't need to treat Indian-Americans any differently than how I treat anybody else. You'll get what you give. If you talk like a human being, then I'll talk to you with a similar kind of attitude. You start abusing people back in India because they are so inferior than you who lives in America and earns dollars and hobnobs with beautiful white people, get ready to face similar abuse in return.

And god forbid, that I get jealous of you. I would rather live on a modest sum, but have a strong connection to my people, my religion, my culture and my history, than be a self-loathing billionaire.

Gandhi wanted the same thing. Why don’t you go spin cotton in the villages. Your mindset needs is inhibiting India’s growth potential.

economic wealth brings longer human life, more opportunities and greater security

what are you smoking, you called me a brown coolie. If it wasn’t direct, it was inferred by the tone of your post. I will call people names if they are being stupid. I will educate them in the hopes that they adjust their mindset.

India’s major problem is it’s class structure. You are projecting that class structure onto American society. I have been trying to explain to you that this is one of the things America has got right. India would benefit from removing its VIP culture and instead focusing on merit. Middle class is merit based; but there are no avenues to generate generational wealth in India working for MNCs. For that you need wealth creation vectors like VC funding and startups. For that India depends on America to help assist us. If you want to alienate the Indian american diaspora as brown cookies; then you want my sympathy and respect. Why would I respect someone who calls me derogatory things.

Lol, the fact that I’m not a coolie who seeks white approval is pissing you off. Tu kon hai BC, to call me a coolie. Tera aukat kya hai? Do you issue medals and certificates to outstanding people, does the Indian government take your opinion when determining who is Indian enough. I have that certification from the government thank you and I have rights as per those documentation. Your opinion doesn’t supersede that. I have a right to pursue the best opportunities available to me, if that it is India; I will shift base. Currently those opportunities are best available in the US. I am shrewd and have no white man telling me what to do. That belief is just colonial PTSD.

 

[ezsasa]

India’s major problem is it’s class structure. You are projecting that class structure onto American society. I have been trying to explain to you that this is one of the things America has got right. India would benefit from removing its VIP culture and instead focusing on merit. Middle class is merit based; but there are no avenues to generate generational wealth in India working for MNCs. For that you need wealth creation vectors like VC funding and startups. For that India depends on America to help assist us. If you want to alienate the Indian american diaspora as brown cookies; then you want my sympathy and respect. Why would I respect someone who calls me derogatory things.

what is this "class structure" in India? elaborate.

 

[Optimistic Nihilist]

Gandhi wanted the same thing. Why don’t you go spin cotton in the villages. Your mindset needs is inhibiting India’s growth potential.

economic wealth brings longer human life, more opportunities and greater security

what are you smoking, you called me a brown coolie. If it wasn’t direct, it was inferred by the tone of your post. I will call people names if they are being stupid. I will educate them in the hopes that they adjust their mindset.

India’s major problem is it’s class structure. You are projecting that class structure onto American society. I have been trying to explain to you that this is one of the things America has got right. India would benefit from removing its VIP culture and instead focusing on merit. Middle class is merit based; but there are no avenues to generate generational wealth in India working for MNCs. For that you need wealth creation vectors like VC funding and startups. For that India depends on America to help assist us. If you want to alienate the Indian american diaspora as brown cookies; then you want my sympathy and respect. Why would I respect someone who calls me derogatory things.

Lol, the fact that I’m not a coolie who seeks white approval is pissing you off. Tu kon hai BC, to call me a coolie. Tera aukat kya hai? Do you issue medals and certificates to outstanding people, does the Indian government take your opinion when determining who is Indian enough. I have that certification from the government thank you and I have rights as per those documentation. Your opinion doesn’t supersede that. I have a right to pursue the best opportunities available to me, if that it is India; I will shift base. Currently those opportunities are best available in the US. I am shrewd and have no white man telling me what to do. That belief is just colonial PTSD.

Lmao, the fuck did Gandhi come in? Are you having a mental breakdown?

"I will call people names if they are being stupid. I will educate them in the hopes that they adjust their mindset."

Great. I'll do the same then. I'll call you a brown coolie since you are acting like one, in hope that you will change your mindset.

You want a discussion, you'll get one. You want a barrage of abuses, you'll get that too. Again, you abused first, stop crying like a bitch and don't repeat it the next time or else accept it. If you won't abuse, you won't get abused in return. We are not here to listen to your lectures, either talk to us as equals or fuck off.

You can work wherever you want, what you don't have a right is to lecture others because apparently "they are inferior" because they're not working in America like you. Don't be an American bootlicker and reform your attitude. We are not inferior or lower than you, so drop your supercilious attitude and abuses, or else you'll be called out like the chutiya you are.

It may shock you to learn that people value a lot of other things than just wealth. Just because USA throws us a few crumbs from its plate won't make us forget our history and the negative part that the West has played and is still playing today.

 

[srevster]

what is this "class structure" in India, elaborate.

He made a statement that I am a brown coolie. That implies that coolies are beneath him. He is putting me into a class and trying to justify that he is of a better class by trying to measure me up.

firstly that statement implies are people you look down on.

within India, people ask which family you are from. People ask what your parents do. People are judged based on how they dress or the type Of clothing they wear.

at tirupati temple I can call favors to cut the line. That is class structure. People have different subsidies or affirmative quotas based on their caste instead of income.

there is a lot of tribalism in India. People don’t identify with the nation over their tribe or society.
This isn’t culture, this is just playing into colonial propaganda. India hasn’t fully decolonized. I’m making the argument that Indian Americans are more decolonized compared to Indians in India who still support some of the colonial institutions

 

[srevster]

Lmao, the fuck did Gandhi come in? Are you having a mental breakdown?

"I will call people names if they are being stupid. I will educate them in the hopes that they adjust their mindset."

Great. I'll do the same then. I'll call you a brown coolie since you are acting like one, in hope that you will change your mindset.

You want a discussion, you'll get one. You want a barrage of abuses, you'll get that too. Again, you abused first, stop crying like a bitch and don't repeat it the next time or else accept it. If you won't abuse, you won't get abused in return. We are not here to listen to your lectures, either talk to us as equals or fuck off.

You can work wherever you want, what you don't have a right is to lecture others because apparently "they are inferior" because they're not working in America like you. Don't be an American bootlicker and reform your attitude. We are not inferior or lower than you, so drop your supercilious attitude and abuses, or else you'll be called out like the chutiya you are.

It may shock you to learn that people value a lot of other things than just wealth. Just because USA throws us a few crumbs from its plate won't make us forget our history and the negative part that the West has played and is still playing today.

Ok you win I’m a brown coolie. Please take your participation award and let the adults talk.

 

[Optimistic Nihilist]

Ok you win I’m a brown coolie. Please take your participation award and let the adults talk.

Haven't seen much adult-like behavior. You have an insufferably filthy tongue. The real heroes of this world are the people who have to tolerate you on a daily basis.

 

[srevster]

Haven't seen much adult-like behavior. You have an insufferably filthy tongue. The real heroes of this world are the people who have to tolerate you on a daily basis.

Arrey bhai if you got nothing new or meaningful to say; move on.

 

[Optimistic Nihilist]

Arrey bhai if you got nothing new or meaningful to say; move on.

You first.

 

[srevster]

india has the capacity to take over global leadership from US. It will be a peaceful transition unlike the US China situation.

why will it be peaceful?

1) large diaspora
2) fastest growing immigrant group
3) good people to people relations
4) investments with good visibility and transparency, without state control.
5) more open markets, predictable leadership under modi
6) no national security threats from India

why US will cede control?

1) India has a youthful population
2) uS will age
3) most productive work in the Us is done by hardworking immigrants.
4) these immigrants will eventually equal or outnumber the current white Anglo Saxon population.
5) it is in America’s best interest to choose the best option
6) Indians are considered people who have high emotional intelligence, good moral compass and largely focused on personal growth

the Two nations will naturally gravitate towards partnership. The Indian diaspora will become politically more powerful; perhaps even more powerful than the Jewish lobby. The effects of that are already being felt.

 

[ezsasa]

He made a statement that I am a brown coolie. That implies that coolies are beneath him. He is putting me into a class and trying to justify that he is of a better class by trying to measure me up.

firstly that statement implies are people you look down on.

within India, people ask which family you are from. People ask what your parents do. People are judged based on how they dress or the type Of clothing they wear.

at tirupati temple I can call favors to cut the line. That is class structure. People have different subsidies or affirmative quotas based on their caste instead of income.

there is a lot of tribalism in India. People don’t identify with the nation over their tribe or society.
This isn’t culture, this is just playing into colonial propaganda. India hasn’t fully decolonized. I’m making the argument that Indian Americans are more decolonized compared to Indians in India who still support some of the colonial institutions

By that logic, class structure and tribalism exists in US too, and we have come to a situation where american tribalism is not allowing India to heal it's own old wounds now a days.

We can see this american tribalism, dominant tribalism called liberalism is in power these days.

Nighat abbas (BJP spokesperson) and nidhi razdan (NDTV presenter )went thru the same scam, nidhi razdan got an oped printed in NYT and Nighat abbas case was not. This is tribalism of another name.

class is a societal construct, not necessarily linked to biology.

few examples new tribes in US created for itself in recent years :

- vegan vs rest
- liberals vs rest
- DC vs Marvel
- apple vs microsoft (attempted but did not sustain)
- flat earthers vs rest

within 200 years, murica has managed to create new tribes over and above religion, ethnicity and race.

Tirupati example is a case of privilege, not class system. privileged people exist in all societies not just in India. the triangle in the society always applies where ever you are, and when ever you are. there will be only a few people at the top and lots of people at the bottom.

 

[srevster]

By that logic, class structure and tribalism exists in US too, and we have come to a situation where american tribalism is not allowing India to heal it's own old wounds now a days.

We can see this american tribalism, in this case american tribalism called liberalism.

Nighat abbas (BJP spokesperson) and nidhi razdan (NDTV presenter )went thru the same scam, nidhi razdan got an oped printed in NYT and Nighat abbas case was not. This is tribalism of another name.

class is a societal construct, not necessarily linked to biology.

few examples new tribes in US created for itself in recent years :

- vegan vs rest
- liberals vs rest
- DC vs Marvel
- apple vs microsoft (attempted but did not sustain)
- flat earthers vs rest

within 200 years, murica has managed to create new tribes over and above religion, ethnicity and race.

Tirupati example is a case of privilege, not class system. privileged people exist in all societies not just in India. the triangle in the society always applies where ever you are, and when ever you are.

Yeah agreed. My point here is instead of bitching, we should do something about it. The Indian diaspora is and we don’t appreciate being called names. Some examples include

1) changing California textbooks
2) getting Modi higher profile in US
3) Creating awareness by celebrating Indian festivals in US. Celebrating Holi, Diwali here
4) creating awareness of Indian culture and ethos (sharing Indian food, teaching recipes that the locals learn to appreciate)
5) creating temples in USA
6) Funding Indian languages in American universities
7) joining American government positions
8) becoming executives in large companies
9) buying property and investing in India
10) creating community support groups for Indian kids here to learn languages, culture .
11) removing strategic weaknesses and colonial hangovers from India and teach kids to be confident and have a good compass
12) the cultural shift in how Indians are integrating into American society is huge compared to the 90’s and 2000’s. Diwali potential federal holiday
13) lastly employing Americans who learn to appreciate Indian entrepreneurs

 

[srevster]

Yeah agreed. My point here is instead of bitching, we should do something about it. The Indian diaspora is and we don’t appreciate being called names. Some examples include

1) changing California textbooks
2) getting Modi higher profile in US
3) Creating awareness by celebrating Indian festivals in US. Celebrating Holi, Diwali here
4) creating awareness of Indian culture and ethos (sharing Indian food, teaching recipes that the locals learn to appreciate)
5) creating temples in USA
6) Funding Indian languages in American universities
7) joining American government positions
8) becoming executives in large companies
9) buying property and investing in India
10) creating community support groups for Indian kids here to learn languages, culture .
11) removing strategic weaknesses and colonial hangovers from India and teach kids to be confident and have a good compass
12) the cultural shift in how Indians are integrating into American society is huge compared to the 90’s and 2000’s. Diwali potential federal holiday
13) lastly employing Americans who learn to appreciate Indian entrepreneurs

Livermore temple

Holi at Stanford

Diwali

Lastly kicking ass

 

[ezsasa]

Yeah agreed. My point here is instead of bitching, we should do something about it. The Indian diaspora is and we don’t appreciate being called names. Some examples include

1) changing California textbooks
2) getting Modi higher profile in US
3) Creating awareness by celebrating Indian festivals in US. Celebrating Holi, Diwali here
4) creating awareness of Indian culture and ethos (sharing Indian food, teaching recipes that the locals learn to appreciate)
5) creating temples in USA
6) Funding Indian languages in American universities
7) joining American government positions
8) becoming executives in large companies
9) buying property and investing in India
10) creating community support groups for Indian kids here to learn languages, culture .
11) removing strategic weaknesses and colonial hangovers from India and teach kids to be confident and have a good compass
12) the cultural shift in how Indians are integrating into American society is huge compared to the 90’s and 2000’s. Diwali potential federal holiday
13) lastly employing Americans who learn to appreciate Indian entrepreneurs

Please do, and lot's more to be done. CAIR is a good example to emulate, may Indian diaspora become more powerful than CAIR. but at this point in time, is Indian diaspora more powerful than CAIR, the answer is no.

Just that, don't view India from the lense of what Indian eduction system taught you about India. the colonial hangover on the way Bharat is perceived within India and outside has not gone yet. we are trying and will take time. it's just been only 70 years, you can't compare a 70 year old system to a 200 year old system.

Time is linear, first mover advantage is a thing.

 

[hit&run]

Kindly stop addressing each other.

Thanks for otherwise engaging & good debate. Learning a lot.

Regards

 

[srevster]

Please do, and lot's more to be done. CAIR is a good example to emulate, may Indian diaspora become more powerful than CAIR. but at this point in time, is Indian diaspora more powerful than CAIR, the answer is no.

Just that, don't view India from the lense of what Indian eduction system taught you about India. the colonial hangover on the way Bharat is perceived within India and outside has not gone yet. we are trying and will take time. it's just been only 70 years, you can't compare a 70 year old system to a 200 year old system.

Time is linear, first mover advantage is a thing.

That’s the point I’m making. Indians view world through colonial lens. I call this colonial PTSD. To truly gain freedom, we need to grow past those limitations and gain mastery over our destiny. The first step in my opinion is developing empathy where we build each other up vs measuring others up to tear them down.

 

[Indrajit]

Yeah agreed. My point here is instead of bitching, we should do something about it. The Indian diaspora is and we don’t appreciate being called names. Some examples include

1) changing California textbooks
2) getting Modi higher profile in US
3) Creating awareness by celebrating Indian festivals in US. Celebrating Holi, Diwali here
4) creating awareness of Indian culture and ethos (sharing Indian food, teaching recipes that the locals learn to appreciate)
5) creating temples in USA
6) Funding Indian languages in American universities
7) joining American government positions
8) becoming executives in large companies
9) buying property and investing in India
10) creating community support groups for Indian kids here to learn languages, culture .
11) removing strategic weaknesses and colonial hangovers from India and teach kids to be confident and have a good compass
12) the cultural shift in how Indians are integrating into American society is huge compared to the 90’s and 2000’s. Diwali potential federal holiday
13) lastly employing Americans who learn to appreciate Indian entrepreneurs

You clearly have a connection to India but you are generalising when you suggest the Indian American community as a whole holds those views. Many do look down on India and some of it is intrinsic to their leaving India for greener pastures. One has to believe that the decision was correct and that will involve some disparaging of India to fortify one’s own decision.

As for the list that you have put out, quite a bit of it is debatable, both in intent and reach and is frankly irrelevant to those of us here. Things like textbooks, temples, festivals are important more to the Indian American community and not to us. Textbook fight probably had Indian Americans fighting on both sides and probably true for the Modi case too. Plenty of Indian Americans now provide the shoulders for the guns targeting India/Hindus. A bit of a double edged sword that because even if more Indian Americans are somewhat supportive, it’s those who aren’t who get the limelight. Even members of congress etc usually don’t prove to be India’s friends because of political compulsions and woke signalling. I think only one of the 5 is seen as fully supportive (Raja Krishnamoorthy) and several candidates are targeted because they are Hindus who are not “woke” enough to be non stop critical of Hindus/India.

All in all, a mixed bag.

 

[srevster]

You clearly have a connection to India but you are generalising when you suggest the Indian American community as a whole holds those views. Many do look down on India and some of it is intrinsic to their leaving India for greener pastures. One has to believe that the decision was correct and that will involve some disparaging of India to fortify one’s own decision.

As for the list that you have put out, quite a bit of it is debatable, both in intent and reach and is frankly irrelevant to those of us here. Things like textbooks, temples, festivals are important more to the Indian American community and not to us. Textbook fight probably had Indian Americans fighting on both sides and probably true for the Modi case too. Plenty of Indian Americans now provide the shoulders for the guns targeting India/Hindus. A bit of a double edged sword that because even if more Indian Americans are somewhat supportive, it’s those who aren’t who get the limelight. Even members of congress etc usually don’t prove to be India’s friends because of political compulsions and woke signalling. I think only one of the 5 is seen as fully supportive (Raja Krishnamoorthy) and several candidates are targeted because they are Hindus who are not “woke” enough to be non stop critical of Hindus/India.

All in all, a mixed bag.

Hmm, interesting perspective. India has a NET benefit. What one or two people do is irrelevant. You should look at the aggregate impact of cross border interactions. America although it sided with Pakistan, wanted India’s partnership. When Kennedy approached Nehru, he got non- alignment as response. America held the British accountable to their promise to hand over control. Pakistan willingly partnered with US because India’s non-aligned policy. They assisted India in 1962; helped with Tibet etc.

regarding interference; once again private organizations owned by select few billionaires. Indian intelligence needs to build protections against these mechanics. It’s already being done Rupay for example.

the American partnership with India means more economic prosperity for India. More integration of Indian economy on the world stage. Modi can emulate Deng and create another Kissinger within USA that is pro v india. Of course with greater engagement comes a few bad apples. What matters is whether the net benefit is worth it.

China capitalized on Their relationship with America and benefited. Of course there was interference iN China too, but they kept their heads down and focused on what matters; national prosperity.