India to increase troops along China border

[IBRIS]

, I am afraid that India will have to give up M-line and Asai CHin one day.

And you my friend will die waiting for the day when India will give up M-line. In reality it will never happen, even if you bring your entire 4ft munchurian army at our doorsteps.:tank:

 

[Known_Unknown]

If India can not narrow sino-India economy gap and stop sino-india power balance worse to India, I am afraid that India will have to give up M-line and Asai CHin one day.

Badguy, use some of your famous Chinese logic and realism here. The greatest gap between the Chinese and Indian power quotients was during 1991 to 1997, when the Indian economy was yet to take off.

If China could not force or coerce India to accede to your demands then, you seriously think that it will happen in the future as India grows stronger economically and militarily? In fact, it was during the 1990s, when there was the greatest disparity in strength of the two countries that India conducted its nuclear tests and officially named China as "enemy number one".

Even in 1962, let me remind you, China tried to grab AP by defeating Indian forces, occupying AP's towns and asking Nehru to negotiate ceasefire. Even then, Nehru refused to surrender and negotiate until China had gone back across the McMahon line. And you did so.

You have to be delusional to think that India will give up AP.

 

[no smoking]

Yes, brother. Things was like what you say before,i.e. Chinese govt wanna resolve it but Indian govt denied due to its narrow nationalist. But now things has changed. The Chinese one insist the return of Southern Tibet(so-called AP).

Oh? That is a news for me.

Can you provide any link for this? Some official cofirmation.

 

[great_han]

Oh? That is a news for me.

Can you provide any link for this? Some official cofirmation.

Yup, at least the evidence of Tawang belonging to Xizang(Tibet) is convicing. It should reunite with its motherland. The Indians inherited from the British and illegal occupied it.

The map of disputed area ÖÐÓ¡±ß½ç̸ÅнøÈëµÚ¶þ½×¶Î Ñ°Çó¡°Ò»À¿×Ó¡±¿ò¼Ü-ËѺüÐÂÎÅ
Chinese insist the return of Tawang even citizen exchange.
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[Known_Unknown]

Yup, at least the evidence of Tawang belonging to Xizang(Tibet) is convicing. It should reunite with its motherland. The Indians inherited from the British and illegal occupied it.

The map of disputed area ÖÐÓ¡±ß½ç̸ÅнøÈëµÚ¶þ½×¶Î Ñ°Çó¡°Ò»À¿×Ó¡±¿ò¼Ü-ËѺüÐÂÎÅ
Chinese insist the return of Tawang even citizen exchange.
Ó¡±¨³ÆÖйú¼á³ÖÒªÇ󽫴ïÀµ³öÉúµØ¹é»¹Öйú-ËѺüÐÂÎÅ

Yes, Tawang should re-unite with Tibet as soon as Tibet reverts to its old status of being the protectorate of China. Until it is occupied by China however, India will keep Tawang safe.

There is also enough concrete evidence of Aksai Chin being part of Kashmir, and never of Tibet. So when are you returning Aksai Chin to India?

 

[great_han]

Yes, Tawang should re-unite with Tibet as soon as Tibet reverts to its old status of being the protectorate of China. Until it is occupied by China however, India will keep Tawang safe.

There is also enough concrete evidence of Aksai Chin being part of Kashmir, and never of Tibet. So when are you returning Aksai Chin to India?

Hi, dude. I wanna remind you, Aksai Chin is part of China's Xijiang Region now. And there is no Indian residents there. While lots of tibetans living in Tawang. What's more, one of the Dalai was born in Tawang. How do you know the Tibetans dont want it back?
P.s. Xizang(Tibet) was not occupied by force, but peacefully liberated through negotiation. You can check up your history book if fight occured in Tibet in 1951.
P.S.again, The J&K area itself is disputed.

 

[nimo_cn]

I believe no Indian here will controvert that Britain's colonial ruling over India before 1945 is illegal. But the funny thing here is no Indian agree that the M-line, which was raised by British during the time when India was illegally colonized, is illegal. And the more hilarious thing is India seems to very happy to inherit this illegal M-line from the British Empire, you must regret why British hadn't created more M-lines between China and India.
Everything that is in the interest of India shoud be justified, everything that is not in interest of India should be condemned?

 

[Known_Unknown]

Hi, dude. I wanna remind you, Aksai Chin is part of China's Xijiang Region now. And there is no Indian residents there.

So what? It was still annexed illegally, because it is part of Kashmir. Though the state itself may be disputed between India and Pakistan, neither of the two countries disputes the fact that Aksai Chin is part of Kashmir.

While lots of tibetans living in Tawang. What's more, one of the Dalai was born in Tawang.

No, Indians live in Tawang, and Tawang residents have Indian passports. So what if one of the Dalai Lamas was born in Tawang? One other Dalai Lama was also born in Mongolia, so is Mongolia part of China too? Lol!

In any case, China refuses to recognize the authority and institution of the Dalai Lama, so to use that institution to put forward a territorial claim on India is absurd.

How do you know the Tibetans dont want it back?

Which Tibetians? The one that you say are living there? They seem to be satisfied with the status quo. They've never been riots in Tawang unlike in Lhasa or other places under Chinese control.

If you were honest in asking yourself that question, you might have asked how you can be sure that the Tibetians in Tibet want to be part of China?

Xizang(Tibet) was not occupied by force, but peacefully liberated through negotiation. You can check up your history book if fight occured in Tibet in 1951.

According to my knowledge, Xinjiang and Tibet are two different territories. And Tibet was not "peacefully liberated", since the Tibetians have, since the "liberation", tried multiple times to "liberate" themselves of Chinese control. The documentation, photos, videos etc are there for all to see. The near extinction of the Tibetian cultural heritage, monastaries, and killings of monks during the Cultural Revolution are also well documented.

P.S.again, The J&K area itself is disputed.

The ownership of J&K is disputed, not its boundaries.

 

[Known_Unknown]

I believe no Indian here will controvert that Britain's colonial ruling over India before 1945 is illegal. But the funny thing here is no Indian agree that the M-line, which was raised by British during the time when India was illegally colonized, is illegal. And the more hilarious thing is India seems to very happy to inherit this illegal M-line from the British Empire, you must regret why British hadn't created more M-lines between China and India.
Everything that is in the interest of India shoud be justified, everything that is not in interest of India should be condemned?

Let's put aside for the moment the fact that China has no standing in the boundary settlement between Tibet and India.

Even so, there is a principle of international law, by which all successor states inherit their colonial boundaries. In short, the boundaries of British India were inherited by the successor state, the Republic of India. And since agreement for the boundary between Tibet and India was duly signed and sealed, there was no question of "illegality" of the McMahon Line.

Uti possidetis juris - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know that the Chinese generally have scant regard for international law and jurisprudence, so I'm not really surprised that the CCP propaganda doesn't include this nugget of information as standard fare in your history textbooks.

 

[nimo_cn]

Let's put aside for the moment the fact that China has no standing in the boundary settlement between Tibet and India.

Even so, there is a principle of international law, by which all successor states inherit their colonial boundaries. In short, the boundaries of British India were inherited by the successor state, the Republic of India. And since agreement for the boundary between Tibet and India was duly signed and sealed, there was no question of "illegality" of the McMahon Line.

Uti possidetis juris - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know that the Chinese generally have scant regard for international law and jurisprudence, so I'm not really surprised that the CCP propaganda doesn't include this nugget of information as standard fare in your history textbooks.

I am really not surprised to hear that. Like i said, Everything that is in the interest of India shoud be justified, everything that is not in interest of India should be condemned. India does not only inherit the illegal M-line from British Empire but also the evil imperialism.

 

[p2prada]

If China is capable of taking Tawang by force, you would have done so in the 90s. Heck the PLA pussied out of a two front war in 1985-86(ask OOE), so what makes you think you can do the same now?

The Chinese have to contend with Taiwan, Japan and the US in the east, Russia in the North and India in the south, not to mention Taliban and Al Qaeda in the west. If you go to war against India, the other 2 sides are sure to make political moves detrimental to China. You simply have far too much to lose militarily and diplomatically.

In case there is a war and you are pushed back with a lot of loses, you will completely lose face in the international arena. If India wins, its a big victory. If there is a stalemate, India still wins. If India loses China will be ostracized by the international community for being the aggressor state and put Tibet back into the limelight, which China does not want. So, you tell me where you stand. India likes the status Quo on both the Pakistan and China front. India is in the most comfortable position in both disputes.

 

[mattster]

If the Chinese ever get into a major border conflict with India - its going to be a complete game-changer for South-East Asia.

All the ASEAN countries from Vietnam to Malaysia all the way down to Australia are going to get much closer to the US and will seriously start arming themselves. Japan will also drastically change its defensive posture.

Already Malaysia and Singapore are arming themselves heavily. Malaysia even has submarines now. Even a chinese dominated Singapore dont fully trust China.

So far all these countries are taking China's claim of "peaceful rise" at its word. If there is a significant border conflict with India, then its game over !!

These countries will significantly up their defense spending and countries like Japan and Australia may even go nuclear. That will turn the geo-strategic equation for China in South-East Asia and the Malacca Straits region completely on its head.

 

[ajtr]

Indians are fighting in vain over boundary.As chinese says on this forum that they ruled tibbat in say some 0000000 century so it gives them right to annex it.As same way indian buddist annexed chinese in 000000 century sipritually so it give india according to chinese binary logic to annex china forcefully.:twizt: so my dear indians please dont fight over the black mark of british colonialism---the machmohan line.Just rise and go beyond that and claim whole of china and south east asia,south asia,pussia central asia.let the greater bharat spread from gandhara to japan. and that truly was the greater ancient india

 

[no smoking]

Yup, at least the evidence of Tawang belonging to Xizang(Tibet) is convicing. It should reunite with its motherland. The Indians inherited from the British and illegal occupied it.

The map of disputed area ÖÐÓ¡±ß½ç̸ÅнøÈëµÚ¶þ½×¶Î Ñ°Çó¡°Ò»À¿×Ó¡±¿ò¼Ü-ËѺüÐÂÎÅ
Chinese insist the return of Tawang even citizen exchange.
Ó¡±¨³ÆÖйú¼á³ÖÒªÇ󽫴ïÀµ³öÉúµØ¹é»¹Öйú-ËѺüÐÂÎÅ

Do you have the link saying that india has agreed china's pro-80s proposal?

 

[badguy2000]

If the Chinese ever get into a major border conflict with India - its going to be a complete game-changer for South-East Asia.

All the ASEAN countries from Vietnam to Malaysia all the way down to Australia are going to get much closer to the US and will seriously start arming themselves. Japan will also drastically change its defensive posture.

Already Malaysia and Singapore are arming themselves heavily. Malaysia even has submarines now. Even a chinese dominated Singapore dont fully trust China.

So far all these countries are taking China's claim of "peaceful rise" at its word. If there is a significant border conflict with India, then its game over !!

These countries will significantly up their defense spending and countries like Japan and Australia may even go nuclear. That will turn the geo-strategic equation for China in South-East Asia and the Malacca Straits region completely on its head.

now a principle shoule be told to you:

1. if you have only 5 nuke-bombs,you will be looked on as a "threaten" to everybody,just like N.korea .

2. If you have 5000 nuke-bombs ,you will be looked on as " the defender of world peace",just like USA.

the principle also can be applied to national power.
1.when CHina is less powerful than USA, CHina now is looked on as a "threaten" by India and many other countires.

2.If china were to be as powerful as USA,or even more powerful, then CHina would be looked on as "the defender of world peace".

 

[ajtr]

now a principle shoule be told to you:

1. if you have only 5 nuke-bombs,you will be looked on as a "threaten" to everybody,just like N.korea .

2. If you have 5000 nuke-bombs ,you will be looked on as " the defender of world peace",just like USA.

the principle also can be applied to national power.
1.when CHina is less powerful than USA, CHina now is looked on as a "threaten" by India and many other countires.

2.If china were to be as powerful as USA,or even more powerful, then CHina would be looked on as "the defender of world peace".

I think there is some confusion in ur logic of "threatened" and "the defender of world peace".As i decipher it-- u mean to say that the country who has more nukes is defender of world peace and country which has less nukes is looked as threatened.

If it is so then at the height of cold war USSR had more nukes weapons then USA but USSR was never looked upon as "the defender of world peace" infact usa had more allies than the communist USSR any time had?So from that lesson in history china will never be accepted as defender but it will always remain threatened even if it grows powerful than usa?and its the ideology of china which makes its threatened not the defender of peace....

 

[badguy2000]

I think there is some confusion in ur logic of "threatened" and "the defender of world peace".As i decipher it-- u mean to say that the country who has more nukes is defender of world peace and country which has less nukes is looked as threatened.

If it is so then at the height of cold war USSR had more nukes weapons then USA but USSR was never looked upon as "the defender of world peace" infact usa had more allies than the communist USSR any time had?So from that lesson in history china will never be accepted as defender but it will always remain threatened even if it grows powerful than usa?and its the ideology of china which makes its threatened not the defender of peace....

you say so just because CHinese has not be powerful too long and you has not be used to a powerful China yet.

guy,just stay on in the world for ten years ,you will gradually get accustomed to a more and more powerful china.

Besides ,you will find that you have to learn Chinese language and scripts, however much you dislike CHina or chinese.

 

[great_han]

It seems somebody has forgotten who was the ally of USSR in the Cold War.

 

[p2prada]

I believe no Indian here will controvert that Britain's colonial ruling over India before 1945 is illegal. But the funny thing here is no Indian agree that the M-line, which was raised by British during the time when India was illegally colonized, is illegal. And the more hilarious thing is India seems to very happy to inherit this illegal M-line from the British Empire, you must regret why British hadn't created more M-lines between China and India.
Everything that is in the interest of India shoud be justified, everything that is not in interest of India should be condemned?

Nope British rule over India was neither legal nor illegal. At that time there was no international law that judged who ruled over whom and Geneva convention and what not. So, legal or illegal is a matter of where you stand.

The British beat us, took over, ruled over us, created a boundary that was acceptable to both govts(British India and Tibet) of the time and that was that.

Out come the Maoists with their craze for territory and subjugating people. They, a third party force, unilaterally decided M-line was illegal after running an illegal coup. The unilateral decision of the CCP saying the M-line is illegal is itself..... illegal.

So, don't give that illegal brouhaha crap over here. India has been following all legal procedures ever since the UN was setup. It is Pakistan and China who have been committed to all the illegal activities with no regard for international law. Nuclear Proliferation, Terrorism, supporting Despot regimes, Human trafficking, Human rights abuses, Drug Trafficking etc etc all start from either China or Pakistan. North Korea would have been a democracy and the Taliban would not have existed if it wasn't for the two countries breaking law over and over and over again.

 

[p2prada]

now a principle shoule be told to you:

1. if you have only 5 nuke-bombs,you will be looked on as a "threaten" to everybody,just like N.korea .

2. If you have 5000 nuke-bombs ,you will be looked on as " the defender of world peace",just like USA.

the principle also can be applied to national power.
1.when CHina is less powerful than USA, CHina now is looked on as a "threaten" by India and many other countires.

2.If china were to be as powerful as USA,or even more powerful, then CHina would be looked on as "the defender of world peace".

Silly logic. It is your ideology that matters and your thought process and not your hardware. Hardware can always be destroyed, but spirit lives on. The US has managed to create a non-hegemonic identity after the demise of the USSR and is therefore expected to do the job of the policeman. They follow democratic ideals that are accepted by even the smallest countries in the world. Their decisions can be challenged by international bodies and the economy is a role model to all other countries including China.

But, China is different. China is still looking at hegemonic designs even after being woefully weaker than the US, so it is difficult to imagine a stronger China being more progressive in Human ideals. China still has a closed economy and a distrustful govt. Most govts exercise caution when dealing with China and will continue to do so no matter how powerful China becomes. So, forget about being the protector of world peace, defender of justice, modern day Robin Hood etc etc. It does not suit your current image. All those uber cool titles belong to democratic countries.

Heck, Japan has a deadlier military than both our countries. But, their ideology and constitution makes that kind of power acceptable to all countries.