India to buy $ 100 billion weapons, defence equipment

[LETHALFORCE]

Hopefully in the next 5-10 years we will have reached a point where most of our defense needs are met indigenously and we will not have to worry about these kind of things.

 

[proud_hindustani]

Arya the cold war is over and our relations with Russia will always be, but all nations have to look out for their interests and we are looking out for ours, just because we are expanding our supplier base it is not a message to Russia ,Russia is still a major supplier and will remain so in the forseeable future, we are buying but most of our strategic programs are still with Russia no one shares that relationship with us, but Israel is getting close. Russia offers us TOT and joint production and freedom that most other suppliers will not allow, and for this reason Russia will always be a top supplier.

wouldn't it be so great if USA, Russia, Israel and India join together for development of next generation military weapons with cutting edge technologies.:twizt: If this happens, China and Pakistan would spend sleepless nights

 

[dineshchaturvedi]

wouldn't it be so great if USA, Russia, Israel and India join together for development of next generation military weapons with cutting edge technologies.:twizt: If this happens, China and Pakistan would spend sleepless nights

USA does not need us, we are just getting to learn aviation and cannot add any value to them.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

wouldn't it be so great if USA, Russia, Israel and India join together for development of next generation military weapons with cutting edge technologies.:twizt: If this happens, China and Pakistan would spend sleepless nights

USA is unlikely to have anyone share in sensitive technology collaboration they like to have a buyer and seller relationship. Russia and Israel ae two countries where we share strategic relations and they are more than enough to collaborate with. We also have best pick of french weapons so we have many options. In many things we are working on now, Chinese and Pakistan are atleast a generation or 10-15 years behind some good examples: Brahmos 2 , PAK-FA, Barak, BMD etc... The best China can do is steal older generation technology or buy projects rejected by others in hopes of putting two wrongs together to make a right.

 

[blade]

Sir, as far as chinese strategy is concerned they have a completly different theory. They understand very well that how ever much they may brag about their cutting edge technology for a long time to come their defence tech is bound to fall behind the western standereds by atleast 15%. Just by adding a canard j 10 will never become typhon. The main point here is china dosnt look out for that extra 15% either. Their objective is to over power their enemy with the help of sheer numbers.We must be psychologically prepared to face about 700 odd j 10s in comming 10 years. Even though they will not be as powerful as Super hornet or su 30mki the sheer number will pose a great danger. Its true for other sections of the defence as well. As you can see almost 60% or more of their present battle ships & subs are just vintage stuff but still they are upgrading them to stay ahead in the number game. This is again a very careflly planned hoax to fool their own people and beat USA atleast in the number game. They are though trying very very hard to replace their existing fleet but currently no much decommisioning is taking place just to push the numbers up.Indian should try to understand it fast and take it very seriously. There was a time when our DRDO and other think tanks wasted hell lot of time in reinventing the wheels but now hopefully they dont get carried away by the sheen of hitech stuff which i am afraid that has already very much under the skin on indian military think tanks. India already produces a large number of home built stuff but of little inferior quality as per the western standered. They should be immidiately inducted and batch by batch upgradation would be the only solution. A huge thurst accross the northern border will see india in mess. another key point will be long range cruise missile tehnology which will nullify indian technical edge over china in airforce and partially in army. China has a large inventory of cruise missile which will be a nightmare for india in any confrontation.Rather than concentrating on very hitech and next generation brahmos india needs atleast 1000 cruise missiles of 1500 km range of avarage quality. Its modern day fad and fashion to downplay the strenth of numbers but indian planners who seem to have made india suffer time and again, if dont learn it fast then be ready for a shock. 20 years back india wanted to be germany of world war II era and now they want to become israel. Its really fun to watch that how much stupid and *****ic a country like india can become. Its a boon to india that its rival pakistan is an epitome of foolishness otherwise by now they could have screwed indian happiness , offered it a couple of tight slaps and taken the kashmir as well but thankx to pakistani *****s who responded to indian nuke test and saved us. I am proud to state that my predictions seldom miss to fructify and here i post one more such predictions ..just wait and see how successful our BMD research and developement turn out to be. It will be a unprecedented success on indian part. But can you tell me what dose it shows? It shows how much corrupted we are. Now New Delhi babus are scared of pak nukes and they are hell bent upon hving a strong BMD so just wait and see the result. Whereas we couldnt make our Kavery a success. what a shameeeee.Frankly speaking .. i personally want one more solid india bashing by china.sorry friends i may sound unpatriotic but i am serious about it .. the sooner it happense the better it is ..I personally owe a lot to chinese for 1962 for kicking india out of its Hindi chini bhai bhai dream and so we are here right now .. otherwise still some of out gnats whould have been flying.

 

[sandeepdg]

If India invests even a quarter of this 100 billion $ pie into the domestic defense sector by upgrading our defense labs engaged in crucial and cutting edge R&D, institutions, ordinance factories and sophisticated private supplier networks, i think we can be more or less self reliable in almost the entire gamut of military hardware and technologies.

 

[jakojako777]

wouldn't it be so great if USA, Russia, Israel and India join together for development of next generation military weapons with cutting edge technologies.:twizt: If this happens, China and Pakistan would spend sleepless nights

Yeah, that would be great!
But what is even better is to keep feet on the ground and stay realistic!:twizt::twizt::twizt:
In my modest opinion your comment has nothing (by far) to do with reality!
Under glossy polish of friendly "reset" of Russo-USA relations there is not even shadow of any trust or true friendliness...
Proxy Georgian war ABM radar in Czech and Patriots in Poland now mobile anti ballistic missiles in East Europe, Ukraine, new USA military bases on Black Sea, conflict over oil rich Arctic region, infiltration of military bases in oil rich Caspian region (to mention only few conflict areas..)

China is (NOT India) Russia's 1st allay in possible conflict with USA & NATO.
Israel is (still) 1st allay of USA that never had very good relations with Russia
If India tries to bring Israel in PAK FGFA program you'll see what is going to happen with Indo-Russian relations.:sporty55:

 

[F-14]

i would like to differ jako both the A-50I and the Su-30MKI has both Russian and Isralie tech in it and the Indian A-50I was born out of a Trilatral agreement between Russia India and Israle the Russians have Also allowed us recalibarte their LFG's with a slotam upgarde packages so your worries about israle throwing a sppaner in the works if it is integrated into any Indo-Russian Jv is totally unfounded

 

[jakojako777]

i would like to differ jako both the A-50I and the Su-30MKI has both Russian and Isralie tech in it and the Indian A-50I was born out of a Trilatral agreement between Russia India and Israle the Russians have Also allowed us recalibarte their LFG's with a slotam upgarde packages so your worries about israle throwing a sppaner in the works if it is integrated into any Indo-Russian Jv is totally unfounded

I'm glad that we differ - (that is main reason to have forum ).
Sorry for my English I probably don't express my opinion in right way.
By mentioning PAK FGFA as example I wanted to say that Russia would never
participate with Israel in major strategic project for simple lack of trust(not to leak information to USA) if nothing else.

A-50I and SU-30MKI are Indo-Israeli cooperation and it was normal to sign "Trilateral agreement " be cause it was Russian tech involved also.

But I'm sorry I still don't find that argument is prove that I am wrong...
Mention ONE Russo-Israeli important military cooperation please?
I have NONE in my head!
I've heard some story about possible Russo-Israeli plane cooperation from somebodies "wet" dreams.
If Russia doesn't care any longer about secrecy and security(I do NOT think it is the case) then they should better look at Japan as much better candidate than Israel.
Russia is still in friendly relations with enemies of Israel like Iran,Syria, Yemen (in last 2 they hope to have naval bases)
Why would they chose Israel for such cooperation and spoil relations with Arab(Muslim) world? To get access to some high tech that Israel have stolen from USA ?!
Don't think so.......to much to lose for so little to gain.......:viannen_10:

 

[jakojako777]

Just to give more examples of Russian friendly attitude towards Arab world I'll mention that they have given recently 10 MIG-29 to Lebanon for FREE !
Also they gave 50 BMP's and 3(?) helicopters for FREE to Palestinians.

We all know who is their enemy.................

 

[bengalraider]

The Americans are coming ,and their going all out and the Mod is in bed with them ;one indication while many firms are being blacklisted on the basis of trivial allegations while Lockheed martin remains in the MMRCA race even after proof of espionage done by it within the Indian MoD, the writing is clear on the wall gentlemen the political masters have spoken the united states is India's next military partner.

Defence ministry sources say Hartwick was removed as CEO after Lockheed Martin was found in possession of two folders containing classified information relating to defence purchases. According to this account, these folders found their way to the corporate headquarters of Lockheed Martin, in Bethesda, Maryland, USA. There, in January 2009, they were mistakenly placed on the desk of an officer unfamiliar with Lockheed Martin’s operations in India. Reading the “Government of India, Ministry of Defence” heading on the file, the Lockheed Martin official referred the folders back to the Indian defence ministry in New Delhi.

Since then, a furious defence ministry has been trying to ascertain how Lockheed Martin obtained those folders and whether ethical standards had been flouted. Since January, through the Aero India 2009 air show in February, where Lockheed Martin displayed its products, including the F-16 IN fighter, the defence ministry has trodden cautiously with Lockheed Martin, without actually taking action against the company.

Lockheed Martin India head takes off in a hurry

 

[jakojako777]

The Americans are coming ,and their going all out and the Mod is in bed with them ;one indication while many firms are being blacklisted on the basis of trivial allegations while Lockheed martin remains in the MMRCA race even after proof of espionage done by it within the Indian MoD, the writing is clear on the wall gentlemen the political masters have spoken the united states is India's next military partner.



Lockheed Martin India head takes off in a hurry

writing is clear on the wall gentlemen the political masters have spoken the united states is India's next military partner

If all this is true than Russia is heading for the trouble...with so many strategical cooperation's already signed with India something will definitely go wrong if India makes such radical turn towards USA...
It is really disappointing to hear that........>

 

[LETHALFORCE]

The Americans are coming ,and their going all out and the Mod is in bed with them ;one indication while many firms are being blacklisted on the basis of trivial allegations while Lockheed martin remains in the MMRCA race even after proof of espionage done by it within the Indian MoD, the writing is clear on the wall gentlemen the political masters have spoken the united states is India's next military partner.



Lockheed Martin India head takes off in a hurry

I don't know if we will be USA's military partner there are still many powerful people in the Indian services who are firmly in the Russian camp, USA has tried to convince the world that the cold war is over but for many it is still alive and kicking especially in the Indian military establishment.

 

[bengalraider]

I don't know if we will be USA's military partner there are still many powerful people in the Indian services who are firmly in the Russian camp, USA has tried to convince the world that the cold war is over but for many it is still alive and kicking especially in the Indian military establishment.

If the Americans have one thing on their side it is money, i have heard rumors of millions going into party coffers (political party), the military establishment in India may want Russian gear, but the strings of power are not their's to pull these strings are held in the hands of masters who are in the american camp(the Americans won't hurt the Israeli procurements they want the Russian piece of the pie).

@Jako it won't be anything that abrupt , if the Americans have money the Russians have Natashas, The weapons business is a dirty one and slowly but surely the Americans at the moment seem to be winning.

 

[bengalraider]

@LF


I work in a place where i can get a fair idea of the people visiting Delhi and let me tell you the Americans are coming in all guns blazing , the IA's FMBT seminar last year had Raytheon as the main sponsor during the seminar the IA officers were given sales pitches on a wide variety of Raytheon equipment by sales people Raytheon had brought down for the event.

 

[jakojako777]

@Jako it won't be anything that abrupt , if the Americans have money the Russians have Natashas, The weapons business is a dirty one and slowly but surely the Americans at the moment seem to be winning.[/QUOTE]


Is this some kind of joke??!!Russians have Natashas??!? Are you trying to tell me that national strategic interests can be exchanged for whores (even if world class but all the same whores)?!
With such decadent elite how possibly you can become next Super Power(which considering your number is not such immodest ambition)?!
One doesn't trade built trust you have with Russia for dollars!
Today there is NO country in the world that can trust USA 100%!
Personally I'm sure that Obama will turn his back even to Israel before he leaves office! USA is in troubles and plays only ONE game -to STAY in power! They play only short term "friendships"based on short term interests. Those who don't see that are BLIND!
I know Russians are not perfect but they proved that can be TRUSTED!

I can understand that you talking common sense by saying that it will not happen in abrupt way...but it might start with MMRCA for example huh?

 

[bengalraider]

Is this some kind of joke??!!Russians have Natashas??!? Are you trying to tell me that national strategic interests can be exchanged for whores (even if world class but all the same whores)?!
With such decadent elite how possibly you can become next Super Power(which considering your number is not such immodest ambition)?!
One doesn't trade built trust you have with Russia for dollars!
Today there is NO country in the world that can trust USA 100%!
Personally I'm sure that Obama will turn his back even to Israel before he leaves office! USA is in troubles and plays only ONE game -to STAY in power! They play only short term "friendships"based on short term interests. Those who don't see that are BLIND!
I know Russians are not perfect but they proved that can be TRUSTED!

I can understand that you talking common sense by saying that it will not happen in abrupt way...but it might start with MMRCA for example huh?

This is no joke it's called marketing and winning friends however morally corrupt it may be! it is sad but yes personal interest does come before national interest for many around the world(even in Russia). Look at the amount of corruption that was prevalent within the Russian military in the early nineties some still remains and nevertheless Russia does remain a viable military power.The United States military/political elite are no saints either,the corruption is having and will continue to have an effect on military mordenisation in India but the pace though slow will continue to build. as for nation states and trusting them the only nation state we can trust completely with our security is neither Russia nor the united states, as for it starting with the MMRCA let's just say it has already started look at the no. of deals Russia has lost over the years to competing foreign powers in india. we shall have to face such problems for as long as we continue to dangle multi-billion dollar carrots in front of foreign weapon makers only when we grow as a weapon producing nation ourself and built our own systems can this corruption be curtailed(not stopped entirely). in conclusion i would like to state that the only nation India can trust for her safety and security is INDIA.

 

[jakojako777]

This is no joke it's called marketing and winning friends however morally corrupt it may be! it is sad but yes personal interest does come before national interest for many around the world(even in Russia). Look at the amount of corruption that was prevalent within the Russian military in the early nineties some still remains and nevertheless Russia does remain a viable military power.The United States military/political elite are no saints either,the corruption is having and will continue to have an effect on military mordenisation in India but the pace though slow will continue to build. as for nation states and trusting them the only nation state we can trust completely with our security is neither Russia nor the united states, as for it starting with the MMRCA let's just say it has already started look at the no. of deals Russia has lost over the years to competing foreign powers in india. we shall have to face such problems for as long as we continue to dangle multi-billion dollar carrots in front of foreign weapon makers only when we grow as a weapon producing nation ourself and built our own systems can this corruption be curtailed(not stopped entirely). in conclusion i would like to state that the only nation India can trust for her safety and security is INDIA.

Yeah...I get it .
What you say is:"it is all part of the game, no need to get excited"

If I may just suggest that it is naive to think that :
corruption once deeply rooted has reason to stop to exist only be cause India will start to produce domestically.
It just doesn't make sense.

Once thief always thief....
Where is the money and other values so are the thieves.
They'll find the way to make profit out of it Indian product also!
I don't think that corruption as moral corrosion has anything to do with origin
of product.

Apart from that of course it is better for India to produce on your own .
I'm just disappointed that there is not even little real "friendship" and trust present in Indo-Russian relations after so many years !...
And that you see Russia the same way as USA?!...
I hope that not everybody see that way Indo-Russian relations.
I think that military cooperation is very important for both countries....

On the other hand if everything is just empty words and diplomacy and nobody can trust nobody than that will be very difficult to establish on national level that trust and absence of corruption.
Unless you believe that patriotism is magic word and answer for all problems.
Anyway corrupted (like you've said) are not patriots...
Also, corruption is not everywhere normal, like for example in some parts of Europe.

Scandinavian countries in general have very low level of corruption.
Very often if they have some corruption it is brought in with emigrants and not local population.
So corruption is very much in mentality of the nation......:sporty55:

 

[tarunraju]

There is a thin line that separates 'patriotism' from 'nationalism'. The latter is a little extreme, and is abundantly found in some Eastern European countries. Indian civil society is patriotic, not nationalistic. Of course, it's not just 'Natasha's' that make Russians clinch our deals, but that the mutual affinity between India and Russia makes sure that in the post Cold War era, American influence doesn't overrun us, and we don't end up being made pawns in the Sino-American dipoly. Indo-Russian friendship ensures quick access to new technologies, and helps Russian programs, since we contribute to development and program-costs too. Hence, the Russians don't sand-bag their technologies.

For example, it is this friendship that made sure that we will get a fifth-generation fighter around the same time Russia gets it. If such a friendship didn't exist, and we bought rusty shit from the Americans, they would have sold F-16s, and probably made sure we flew F-18s till the late 2020's. It also made sure we have workhorse MBTs such as the T-90, and its development (T-90M), which offers decent performance at lesser costs compared to western tanks. The Russians never sand-bag or withold their technologies to us. As a result of this good business practice, they end up with billions of dollars from here. The greater incentive for Russia is to make sure the US, EU, or China is denied of that business (while not being anti-competitive).

 

[jakojako777]

There is a thin line that separates 'patriotism' from 'nationalism'. The latter is a little extreme, and is abundantly found in some Eastern European countries. Indian civil society is patriotic, not nationalistic. Of course, it's not just 'Natasha's' that make Russians clinch our deals, but that the mutual affinity between India and Russia makes sure that in the post Cold War era, American influence doesn't overrun us, and we don't end up being made pawns in the Sino-American dipoly. Indo-Russian friendship ensures quick access to new technologies, and helps Russian programs, since we contribute to development and program-costs too. Hence, the Russians don't sand-bag their technologies.

For example, it is this friendship that made sure that we will get a fifth-generation fighter around the same time Russia gets it. If such a friendship didn't exist, and we bought rusty shit from the Americans, they would have sold F-16s, and probably made sure we flew F-18s till the late 2020's. It also made sure we have workhorse MBTs such as the T-90, and its development (T-90M), which offers decent performance at lesser costs compared to western tanks. The Russians never sand-bag or withold their technologies to us. As a result of this good business practice, they end up with billions of dollars from here. The greater incentive for Russia is to make sure the US, EU, or China is denied of that business (while not being anti-competitive).

WOW, right on the spot colonel!
I will not say another word, not to spoil this deep and well balanced comment!
(I just hope it was addressed to me:Laie_60A
Thanks!:thank_you2: