India starts working on its own Seaplane

[Vikramaditya]

No, fuselage shape issue.
Carefully observe the fuselages of all seaplanes you have ever seen, they are made like enclosed boats to float on surface of water.

Saras fuselage design isn't applicable for it, we need new design.

You are correct, what I am saying is, design based on current saras design which is possible....

 

[Bahamut]

can't we convert NAL Saras in seaplane.....

Wings are preferred to be top mounted as they corrode less and have less impact.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

You are correct, what I am saying is, design based on current saras design which is possible....

How will you do that?
Base of fuselage is to be made like a boat.
Almost all seaplanes use that shape and we aren't having any problem there either. Why bring Saras here?

 

[AnantS]

@Indx TechStyle Saras is based on Myasishchev Duet M 102

 

[Indx TechStyle]

@Indx TechStyle Saras is based on Myasishchev Duet M 102

So?
Can M102 float on water?
I'm not in of idea of adding floats on it's feet now.

 

[AnantS]

So?
Can M102 float on water?
I'm not in of idea of adding floats on it's feet now.

Post is in reply to India starts working on its own Seaplane where you asserted India-ness of Saras. Saras does have design issues inherited from Russian design. For seaplane - . Saras would require complete redesign. Why bother? Start ab initio

Now coming to Seaplane-- why bother unless plan is to setup shore to shore and shore to inland transport options or there is explicit requirement for Dornier Sized Sea Plane. I am with @mattster on this one. Use that money to shape India's own strategic airlifter. Seaplanes can come later, for armed forces requirement: it can be aquired from outside.

 

[ezsasa]

Post is in reply to India starts working on its own Seaplane where you asserted India-ness of Saras. Saras does have design issues inherited from Russian design. For seaplane - . Saras would require complete redesign. Why bother? Start ab initio

Now coming to Seaplane-- why bother unless plan is to setup shore to shore and shore to inland transport options or there is explicit requirement for Dornier Sized Sea Plane. I am with @mattster on this one. Use that money to shape India's own strategic airlifter. Seaplanes can come later, for armed forces requirement: it can be aquired from outside.

Nowhere it is mentioned that the requirement is from defence forces, probably coming from civilian ministries.

Aviation ministry has also put a request for 10 dorniers this year.

 

[AnantS]

Nowhere it is mentioned that the requirement is from defence forces, probably coming from civilian ministries.

Aviation ministry has also put a request for 10 dorniers this year.

You mean 10 dornier seaplane? When the product is not even ready?

 

[ezsasa]

You mean 10 dornier seaplane? When the product is not even ready?

Nope, lighter civilian version for utilisation in smaller airports. Different from sea plane.

 

[AnantS]

Nope, lighter civilian version for utilisation in smaller airports. Different from sea plane.

The topic of discussion was seaplane based on Dornier. Not vanilla version of dornier. So did not understand context of your original post quoting me.

 

[ezsasa]

The topic of discussion was seaplane based on Dornier. Not vanilla version of dornier. So did not understand context of your original post quoting me.

Oops, should have made it clear...

I was trying to demonstrate that seaplane and civilian dornier requirement is part of the HAL's plan to diversify into civilian aero market. If this pilot plan succeeds, we might see a new segment in India's civilian aviation.

 

[AnantS]

Oops, should have made it clear...

I was trying to demonstrate that seaplane and civilian dornier requirement is part of the HAL's plan to diversify into civilian aero market. If this pilot plan succeeds, we might see a new segment in India's civilian aviation.

We are not so enthused about sinking money into seaplane, unless such requirement has been projected by civil aviation and that too for dornier sized plane. We would rather want HAL to spend energies in other more pressing areas.

Whereas land version of civvie dornier is perfect. Would be helpful in providing remote connectivity across India.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The sea place which will be design based on combat variant of DO-228 ..

This means it meant for Navy or coast guards ..

================

Full RFI : http://www.hal-india.com/Common/Uploads/TenderDoc/3386_TenderPDF1_RFI.pdf

 

[sthf]

Something that came out of Dornier's stable.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornier_Do_X

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Cross Posting
EXCLUSIVE: As India-Japan Deal Drifts, HAL Amphibian Aircraft Plan Surfaces
Shiv Aroor Feb 23 2017 10 30 AM

An India-Japan deal for ShinMaywa US-2amphibious aircraft remains elusive and has slipped down the ladder in a tightening matrix of procurement priorities for the Indian Navy. But Livefisthas learnt of related activity in India which suggests firm and continuing interest from the Indian Navy and Coast Guard in the capability to meet missions including ‘search and rescue, inter-island communication, rapid response duties and reconnaissance of islands’.

India’s HAL has quietly taken forward what is apparently its least known aircraft development effort. In fact, you’re likely hearing about it for the first time here on Livefist: a seaplane variant of the Dornier Do-228 light transport aircraft that HAL builds under license at Kanpur. It started in October 2015 — a year after India and Japan announced negotiations on the US-2 — when HAL quietly called the attention of global airframers and design houses proposing a partnership to design a seaplane around the Do-228 platform. The spare 13-page RFI plainly stated that HAL was looking to put the Do-228 out to sea and wanted help re-designing the platform for the role, while providing tech specs of aircraft.

While HAL hasn’t revealed what the RFI resulted in, it became clear earlier this month that the company is still interested in pursuing plans of spinning off an amphibious aircraft. Three aeronautical engineers from HAL’s Aircraft Research & Design Centre (ARDC) in Bengaluru presented a paper at the Aero India Seminar this month titled ‘Conceptual Design of Amphibious Aircraft’. The paper, Livefist has learnt, offered what HAL described as ‘An optimized design approach addressing key features like hydrostatic stability, dynamic stability, wave handling, and water performance is conceptualized with due care for aerodynamic characteristics and overall performance figures‘.

A fleet of over 100 Do-228 aircraft currently fly with the Indian Navy, Indian Air Force and Indian Coast Guard, with more on order. HAL has also indicated it will be unveiling a civilian version of the aircraft later this year.

HAL’s plans are ambitious, but understandable at several different levels. For starters, making the Do-228 a seaplane isn’t HAL’s original idea. In 2010, Australian firm Tigerfish Aviation announced it was looking to fit a Do-228 in the Philippines with its patented Retractable Amphibious Pontoon Technology or RAPT (figure below).

HAL is also fully aware that while an India-Japan deal for US-2 amphibians languishes and is buffeted by price concerns, a real opportunity exists to exploit the tried and tested Dornier platform already in service, with all attendant depot and maintenance facilities, with the Indian armed forces (apart from a possible civil version for the airline and tourism industry). Importantly, HAL anticipates correctly that the requirement for an amphibian capability is likely to only become more pronounced in the months and years ahead. Sending out feelers on a possible partnership to either strap on seaplane module on the Do-228 or convert the platform with a redesigned undercarriage is worth it, and could definitely be a driver for more orders. The Do-228 hauls a lot less weight than a US-2 among other things, but HAL may be correctly betting on the familiar Do-228 platform, given the Coast Guard and Navy have already exploited it beyond the logistical role for active maritime patrol and intelligence gathering.

It is perhaps gratifying, in the circumstances, that this isn’t an ab-initio/clean sheet development plan. The HAL effort appears to be a unilateral effort for the moment — there has been no formal proposal to the Indian Navy on a Do-228 seaplane (the Indian Navy is aware of the Dornier Seastar flying boat, but isn’t interested). HAL sources said the company wants to get all the groundwork in place before it makes a possible pitch to the Indian Navy and Coast Guard possibly in 2018.

 

[vikasdangi]

It's always good to develop our own amphibious plane..Since it's in our past experience that when our country approached to acquire certain version of hardware it's always been denied..Like the cryogenic engine tech which was blocked by US or the super computer's system..Our engineers and scientists developed far far superior technology which have given much better performance ..So let's encourage and build our own plane..Jai hind.

 

[Tactical Frog]

Something that came out of Dornier's stable.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornier_Do_X

Woa !
Heavy, but we froggies can beat this :

http://www.pionnair-ge.com/spip1/IMG/jpg/Late631-1948-GE-BMorand-061-pionnair.jpg

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latécoère_631