India should give Pakistan its Kargil

[JHA]

Only way can we hope to regain Pok is when Pakistan is again divided into two parts...Cut off the mineral rich Balochistan and see the magic...

 

[pmaitra]

Might as well permanently cut them off by taking Aksai Chin.

Sir, correct me if I am wrong, but how will taking Aksai Chin cut off Gilgit-Baltistan from China?

 

[pmaitra]

India can't do a Kargil. In most border disputes, the smaller belligerent stands at a diplomatic advantage, unless of course the larger belligerent is a veto power.

If India covertly or overtly violates Pakistan-administered territory, apart from the obvious military action from Pakistan, it will be facing a Pakistan Army that is cushioned by China and/or US. Given India's size, it can probably never enjoy that geopolitical cushion.

I agree. A smart power will cause the other side to launch an attack and then retaliate with overwhelming force; just like Russia did with Georgia.

I wonder, whether alleged presence of PLA in Gilgit-Baltistan would be a legitimate reason for an invasion by India? Should we wait for the US to take out the Pakistani nukes?

IMHO, India desperately needs:

• To get land access to Afghanistan and Central Asia
• To cut off China's access to Pakistani ports

 

[pmaitra]

I would rather see India arming Murri and Bugti tribes to teeth with latest kalashnikovs and RPGs and open a training camp for them in IRAN/Afghanistan...Rest assured we will not need to do any Kargil...

Why use own human resources to go each time on site..Just outsource the job..

IMHO, it could backfire onto India itself.

Many examples exist:

• India helping LTTE
• US helping Mujahideen against USSR
• Pakistan helping Mujahideen and Taliban

The good thing is:

• Balochistan does not share a border with India
• India also helped Mukti Bahini but after Bangladesh's independence, they went back to civilian life

 

[The Messiah]

Only way can we hope to regain Pok is when Pakistan is again divided into two parts...Cut off the mineral rich Balochistan and see the magic...

If we cant take back our land then how can be divide there's ?

 

[Armand2REP]

Sir, correct me if I am wrong, but how will taking Aksai Chin cut off Gilgit-Baltistan from China?

It won't, I meant to say take all the North Areas.

 

[Yusuf]

The point seems to be lost on you guys. The KH runs right across GB, see the map. India does not have to go mad like pakistan and take a whole area of their side. Pick and chose points which we can supply and hold and also have the KH in range. This cannot lead to an all out war. Skirmishes yes, but then we will hold the peaks and have the advantage. Pakistan could have expanded the skirmish of Op Meghdut in 84 to a war but didnt.

What we are doing here is actually a defensive pre-emptive operation. We need to control that highway before it is turned into a "Cuba like" crisis for India. The day they have DF-21s there, it would mean that the chinese have well secured that area with more troops, SAMs et all and we can forget about the whole region.

Now it is up to the Army to convince the govt about the gravity of the situation if the intel confirms Chinese troops presence in GB and mount such an operation. If the road is cut off, the chinese will lose interest in everything else. Above all else, its our land.

 

[JHA]

Who says we will divide theirs....?
We will not be supporting any armed rebellion..We will just facilitate them (in stealth mode ) to get armed and trained ..We may even condemn their attacks on Pakistani army...
I just wnt them to have top class russian equipments ..We will just have to finanace and then enjoy the show with popcorn..

 

[deepak75]

Though our temptation to redeem the supreme sacrifices made by our heroes in Kargill would warrant us paying their Army buffons in the same vein many times over but...... by not being militarily hostile to them, we are hurting them the most.....we are taking away the prime most reason of their unity and their affliction to Pakistan or that "anomaly of unions" = Indiaphobia.

So in my view, we should only keep out in all overt forms and just see them divert their perpetually hostile energies internally towards each other. Why risk a few bullets when our silence and resilience is enough to do the job in current parlance.....

But that does not mean that an overt plan should not be continued to be discussed in some war room in India. I am sure, it must already be the case......

 

[pankaj nema]

The only way we can attack Pakistan is after a terror attack.
Lets us face reality. Kashmir and Arunachal are LIVE DISPUTES.

INDIA is holding what Pakistan and China CLAIM belongs to them

Does anybody here wants India to make a massive BLUNDER.

You guys never talk of the effects of BLUNDERS in military AND GEO STRATEGIC MATTERS

I think we will START a two front war because of this BLUNDER.

The current Geo political situation is in favour of Pakistan because of the ongoing War on Terror .
The Karakoram High way is Chinese Property .The whole world knows it.

So we are basically attacking China.The question is then WHAT NEXT .

1 Pakistan will play the victim .It will get the help of US AND OIC help because of the war on terror
2. China attacks North east and Ladakh .

The two front war that we are preparing for is when India is ATTACKED and not India attacks China and Pakistan

 

[deepak75]

The only way we can attack Pakistan is after a terror attack.
Lets us face reality. Kashmir and Arunachal are LIVE DISPUTES.

INDIA is holding what Pakistan and China CLAIM belongs to them

Does anybody here wants India to make a massive BLUNDER.

You guys never talk of the effects of BLUNDERS in military AND GEO STRATEGIC MATTERS

I think we will START a two front war because of this BLUNDER.

Hi Pankaj,

If starting the war serves our purpose best and if it is the only course of action that we can take then none of the reasons above should (and I am sure would) deter India in attacking militarily. So there should be a clear understanding and preparation to even fight a two front war if necessary. However, that said, my view is that our objectives are better achieved in the current geo-political scenario by being watchful but overtly non-hostile towards Pakistan.

Like I said above, our silence is being golden here while bullets will only be silver relatively.

The current Geo political situation is in favour of Pakistan because of the ongoing War on Terror .
The Karakoram High way is Chinese Property .The whole world knows it.

I do not look at it that way. I think that instea of Chinese property, Karakoram will be their biggest liability..... too many reasons to think so. The chinese have not even tasted an iota of the resistance that they are going to face from the Islamists and believe me bro..... they will face that resistance. What makes it worse that the Islamist resistance will also risk lightiing up Xinxiang which is currently a dry tinderbox in China. So your thoughts on Karakoram being Chinese property are not as foregone conclusions as you are currently assuming.

So we are basically attacking China.The question is then WHAT NEXT .

1 Pakistan will play the victim .It will get the help of US AND OIC help because of the war on terror
2. China attacks North east and Ladakh .

The two front war that we are preparing for is when India is ATTACKED and not India attacks China and Pakistan

Any war between India and China will take these nations back by several years. So if there is no war up to 2012 when the Chinese communist party changes guard.... rest assured then there will be never a war worth its name between India and China. We will then resume on focussing on fighting each other to the last Pakistani or.... whatever is left of them..... or the last Afgan or the last Vietnamese or ........... who knows what the future holds?????

 

[pmaitra]

Though our temptation to redeem the supreme sacrifices made by our heroes in Kargill would warrant us paying their Army buffons in the same vein many times over but...... by not being militarily hostile to them, we are hurting them the most.....we are taking away the prime most reason of their unity and their affliction to Pakistan or that "anomaly of unions" = Indiaphobia.

So in my view, we should only keep out in all overt forms and just see them divert their perpetually hostile energies internally towards each other. Why risk a few bullets when our silence and resilience is enough to do the job in current parlance.....

But that does not mean that an overt plan should not be continued to be discussed in some war room in India. I am sure, it must already be the case......

Very well said! India should go to war only and only when all other avenues are closed. One needs to realise, that, Kashmir is a question of ambition for Pakistan; while it is a question of survival for India.

India must destroy it's internal enemies, not by killing them, but by making them it's friends. We know how relatives of Ibrahim Lodhi invited Babur to invade India. We have elements in India who are willing to invite invaders. We have had many invasions from the North, viz: Aryan invasion, Mongol/Mughal invasion, Persian invasion and Chinese invasion.

Muhammad bin Tughlak always feared a Mongol invasion. Mongols often sent in spies and collaborated with their Indian agents. Muhammad bin Tughlak made sure that these traitors are given exemplary punishment. They were crushed under the feet of elephants, in public. The idea was to create terror in the minds of potential invaders. I wish India adopted the same policy against our current threats. Alas, we have so called 'human rights', that, quite paradoxically, refuses to recognise the human rights of our brave soldiers!

 

[Known_Unknown]

How is this scenario possible? Here's a more detailed picture of the KKH:

First of all, the KKH is a considerable distance away from the LoC. Even if we do not take the terrain into account, the closest the KKH passes to the LoC is right across from Srinagar, overlooking Manshera. Luckily that is a junction of two highways, the KKH and a smaller unnamed highway in the map. Even if the IA were to disrupt that junction, there is another route to the KKH from Peshawar to Besham and Gilgit, so that effort would be completely futile.

The other option would be to go deeper into Pakistani territory from Kargil across to the Nanga Parbat and surrounding area. To do that though, we will first need to capture and control both Khaplu and Skardu, otherwise the Pak Army could easily outflank the IA's advance and form a wedge between the advancing Indian troops and the LoC, isolating them in the process. Also, that area is a considerable distance inside PoK and there will need to be a series of peaks leading from the Indian side into Pak that will first need to be captured for support.

But all this is hypothetical. Without terrain maps, more detailed information about the road network and towns/villages etc in the area, it is impossible to plan any scenario.

 

[Yusuf]

An attack after a terror attack will be a full fledged war, use of cold start and God knows what it will end up with.

The current contingency plan in the wake of the Chinese moves in PoK should make India look at the strategy of having clear view of the highway and the activities taking place there. The only way it can be done is to sneak in and up on them. Few of those peaks which dont even have a name but just a number. The closest points to the KH from the Indian side is in the Kargil sector. If we can manage to sneak in form the northern area of Kashmir, we can also get close to the Skardu AFB of the Pakistanis. A few peaks on Pak occupied western region of Kashmir would also serve us well.

 

[hit&run]

Am i missing some thing Yusuf sir?

 

[pankaj nema]

If India PROVOKES China will China stay quiet.
How would we FEEL If China "ANNOUNCES" 20 BILLION Dollars Aid to Pakistan

The GOVT of India in all its wisdom AND AFTER much deliberation has formulated a policy of
NOT PROVOKING CHINA

If Pakistan attacks India or there is another big terror attack Then India has EVERY RIGHT to go after pakistan.
Then Even China will stay AWAY .

But if try to make mischief in POK by occupying peaks then we are PROVOKING CHINA .

POK is a place in which CHINA has COMPLETE INTEREST .Because The road and rail links That China is planning from western China to Arabian Sea will go through POK.

There is NO SENSE in provoking China

 

[hit&run]

Another one

 

[Agantrope]

The only way we can attack Pakistan is after a terror attack.
Lets us face reality. Kashmir and Arunachal are LIVE DISPUTES.

INDIA is holding what Pakistan and China CLAIM belongs to them

Does anybody here wants India to make a massive BLUNDER.

You guys never talk of the effects of BLUNDERS in military AND GEO STRATEGIC MATTERS

I think we will START a two front war because of this BLUNDER.

The current Geo political situation is in favour of Pakistan because of the ongoing War on Terror .
The Karakoram High way is Chinese Property .The whole world knows it.

So we are basically attacking China.The question is then WHAT NEXT .

1 Pakistan will play the victim .It will get the help of US AND OIC help because of the war on terror
2. China attacks North east and Ladakh .

The two front war that we are preparing for is when India is ATTACKED and not India attacks China and Pakistan

Whatever may be case, Leaders need to lively involved in the actions with their military strategist else we will bite the dust. When talking of reality, LOC will long ever remains as like a international border and the international maps will show the J&K as disputed territory, China talk claiming the AP, nothing going to change in any days in soon later, say atleast 10 years or what. We need some time to beef up our muscles, now Pakistan has every rite to black mail the US else US will have face the sh*t from both the Chins and the beoble's rebublic of bakistan

 

[Yusuf]

Also, India should do something about the Tajik Base that has been lying idle. From the base there, India can easily mount airstrikes on the KH. Supplies should not be an issue. Only problem to find out is what kind of assets the chinese have in that area to deter air strikes or even a pre emptive one on our Tajik base.

 

[sayareakd]

Also, India should do something about the Tajik Base that has been lying idle. From the base there, India can easily mount airstrikes on the KH. Supplies should not be an issue. Only problem to find out is what kind of assets the chinese have in that area to deter air strikes or even a pre emptive one on our Tajik base.

yusuf it is helicopter base, i dont think Tajiks will allow us to operate fighters as they wont want to take panga with nuke Pakistan on our expense.