India set to grow faster than China in 2010: World Bank

Vladimir79

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Well, honestly, I hope china would be the one on the top for ever. But of course, it is impossible.

Anyway, I'm still exciting to see how india manages to takeover china on the development speed. As i have pointed out before, india is going through a complete different developing road, which has never been tried before. If india can succeeded, it would be a good news for the whole world.

Go, go, go, india
India has its problems, but its strong foundations in democracy and capitalism will see that those problems are corrected over time.

jai hind
 

Vladimir79

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If the rural power is the major reason for growth then it's not a stable growth, because it will all depend on Monsoon.
The future of rural India does not rely on the Monsoon. It relies on developing the countryside by tying them into the modernisation of the rest of the country which increases economic diversification away from agriculture based society.

The Luxuries of the city??? I never seen any data to support that India is doing better than China, kindly provide some links.
India's economics are based on private domestic consumption and is a far healthier growth model. As percentage of GDP, India is 20% ahead of China.

The Hindu Business Line : Domestic consumption holds the key to India’s turnaround


The increase of Chinese domestic consumption keeps outperforming that of the whole Chinese economy in the past several years. If I remeber it right, the rate is average 15% on year to year basis. For example, China is the biggest auto market in the world now, and the trend will continue for years to come.
As a percentage of GDP, China is performing poorly as the vast wealth being made in China is going to a couple thousand billionairs and multi-millionaires. The auto market in China is artificial... 50% tax rebate and $2,000 government subsidy for each one. You are losiing money m8, not making it. Your exports have dropped below India.

Suzuki, Hyundai?s Indian Car Exports Beat China?s (Update2) - Bloomberg.com
 

masterofsea

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Indian economy is heavily dependent on foreign BPO,finance and service industry.Thus india economy won't recovery till the global economy start to grow.
 

p2prada

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Indian economy is heavily dependent on foreign BPO,finance and service industry.Thus india economy won't recovery till the global economy start to grow.
Indian BPO companies are still hiring and there has been no case of laying off workers during the recession. Actually the recession helped the BPO. More business came their way. The rest of the Service industry in India is independent of the rest of the world. Only IT sector and trade was affected by recession.

Even the IT sector gave the recession excuse to stop hiring and save money.
 

badguy2000

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"According to the McKinsey Global Institute, consumers earning more than Rs 1,000,000 a year will total 24 million by 2025, which will be larger than China's comparable segment. "
Rs1,000,000.00=130,000 RMB

do you know how many CHinese have a yearly income of 130,000+?
and
do you know what a life a Chinese with a yearly income of 130,000 can live ?


:icon_salut:
 

Vladimir79

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Rs1,000,000.00=130,000 RMB

do you know how many CHinese have a yearly income of 130,000+?
and
do you know what a life a Chinese with a yearly income of 130,000 can live ?


:icon_salut:
Actually Rs1,000,000 =147,500 RMB to be exact. Chinese middle class is estimated at 80 million but that baseline is only 60,000 RMB. 200,000+ RMB is around 1% or 13+ million. Most of China's wealth is held by 400,000 millionaires and 130 billionaires.
 

badguy2000

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Actually Rs1,000,000 =147,500 RMB to be exact. Chinese middle class is estimated at 80 million but that baseline is only 60,000 RMB. 200,000+ RMB is around 1% or 13+ million.
where did you get the data "Chinese middle class is estimated at 80 million but that baseline is only 60,000 RMB"?

Chinese National statistic administration?

after reading the data you cited.....I just have nothing to do but "surround to watch":

Since when have I become one of "mid-class"?

If I were one of "mid class",then 300 million CHinese at least should be "mid-classed " by you overnight,because of your magic definition of "mid-class"!.....
do you know what a life a guy like me,who is "mid-classed by you overnight,live?

Without the help from my parents, I could not buy my appartment. After my parents paid the down payment ,I still have to pay 50% of my salary for bank loans......I can afford a car, but I can not afford the license and park-fees of a car......and now you tell me suddenly that I am one of glory "mid-class".........

hahahaha...............for the sake of God, you are not CHinese revenue officials,otherwise you would be thrown out of windows by angry Chinese taxpayers who are "mid-classed" by you overnight........


Most of China's wealth is held by 400,000 millionaires and 130 billionaires.
pardon,where do you get such a data?

in fact,most of CHinese wealth is held by one billionnaire,that is ,the "state".

In china,all land,most infrastructures,most importants enterprises and assets are all owned by the "state".
 

Vladimir79

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where did you get the data "Chinese middle class is estimated at 80 million but that baseline is only 60,000 RMB"?

Chinese National statistic administration?

after reading the data you cited.....I just have nothing to do but "surround to watch"
The Chinese Bureau of Statistics states 60,000 - 500,000 RMB is middle class. Euromonitor International says that 80m have achieved that as of last year.

: Since when have I become one of "mid-class"?

If I were one of "mid class",then 300 million CHinese at least should be "mid-classed " by you overnight,because of your magic definition of "mid-class"!.....
80% of Chinese make from $751 to $2,500 based on IMF and Euromonitor statistics.

hahahaha...............for the sake of God, you are not CHinese revenue officials,otherwise I would be blackmailed by your terrible definition of "mid-class" to bankrupt.
Its your own statistics bureau... feel free to google it.

pardon,where do you get such a data?

in fact,most of CHinese wealth is held by one billionnaire,that is ,the "state".

In china,all land,most infrastructures,most importants enterprises and assets are all owned by the "state".
According to the Asia times, last year there were 300,000 millionaires accounting for 40% of total household banque savings. Considering Forbes magasine says there are 400,000 millionaires in 2009, that numbers is up 25% in just one year. Now, over half of all savings are likely being held by a few hundred thousand people.
 

badguy2000

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The Chinese Bureau of Statistics states 60,000 - 500,000 RMB is middle class. Euromonitor International says that 80m have achieved that as of last year.

: Since when have I become one of "mid-class"?



80% of Chinese make from $751 to $2,500 based on IMF and Euromonitor statistics.



Its your own statistics bureau... feel free to google it.
guy, you are soo CCTVed....

do you know how "chinese statistics bureau" was bashed by common chinese ,after those chinese like me knew that they were "mid-classed" overnight?

According to the Asia times, last year there were 300,000 millionaires accounting for 40% of total household banque savings. Considering Forbes magasine says there are 400,000 millionaires in 2009, that numbers is up 25% in just one year. Now, over half of all savings are likely being held by a few hundred thousand people.
pls, don't tell it to me...I am working for a chinese bank.....here 20% of clients own 80% of total household savings...
 

p2prada

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If I were one of "mid class",then 300 million CHinese at least should be "mid-classed " by you overnight,because of your magic definition of "mid-class"!.....
From what I have heard, Chinese middle class is around 500 million(40% of pop). Should increase to 80% of the population by 2025 according to current growth estimates.

Indian middle class is 400million(40% of pop) as of today. A middle class person's daily earning should be $10-20 per day.
 

Vladimir79

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guy, you are soo CCTVed....

do you know how "chinese statistics bureau" was bashed by common chinese ,after those chinese like me knew that they were "mid-classed" overnight?
What Chinese perceptions of middle class being are not the issue.

well,first many chinese millionaires and billionaires are used to keeping a low profile.
Probably because they are stashing billions in offshore accounts. Tick that up to the wealth disparity.

pls, don't tell it to me...I am working for a chinese bank.....here 20% of clients own 80% of total household savings...
So you have first hand account of the problem. Thank you for the confirmation.
 

no smoking

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India has its problems, but its strong foundations in democracy and capitalism will see that those problems are corrected over time.

jai hind
I believe these problem will be solved by time. But I am not sure if india's democracy will play any positive role in this procedure since the same domocractic system failed to push the economy development in past 60 years.
 

nitesh

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I believe these problem will be solved by time. But I am not sure if india's democracy will play any positive role in this procedure since the same domocractic system failed to push the economy development in past 60 years.
This is BS of nth degree. How does this explains continuous Indian growth?
 

no smoking

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From what I have heard, Chinese middle class is around 500 million(40% of pop). Should increase to 80% of the population by 2025 according to current growth estimates.

Indian middle class is 400million(40% of pop) as of today. A middle class person's daily earning should be $10-20 per day.
I realy hope what you said is true. But it is not the fact.

The fact is most of chinese just get out of poverty and is stuggling to get the "middle class" life as you said.

According to my personal experience, only when your monthly income reach 8000RMB, you can start a "middle class" life.
 

badguy2000

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From what I have heard, Chinese middle class is around 500 million(40% of pop). Should increase to 80% of the population by 2025 according to current growth estimates.

Indian middle class is 400million(40% of pop) as of today. A middle class person's daily earning should be $10-20 per day.
Chinese definition of "mid-class" is much more strict than India's and very close to west standard,
IMHO,only provided that all the following are all managed at the same time, one chinese family can be labeled as "mid-class" in china.

1. the family should have a decent stable family yearly income...in coastal china, it should be 200,000 RMB at least ( about 1.5 million Rupees) . In inland china, the threshold can be loosened to 100,000RMB(0.7 million Rupees).

2. the family should own two houses at least.
many CHinese young white-collars like me maybe can earn 100,000 RMB(1.5 million rupees) or more every year.but because the price of houses rockets soooo fast, they still can not buy their house for time being and have to live in rented house.
Those chinese young white-collars can not be labeled as "mid-class" yet.

3. one of the couple should have a stable decent job ,such as bankers,doctors,teachers,civil servants ....etc.

CCP's offical loose definition of "mid-class" is bashed sooo fiercely ,just because the definition does't take the "ownership of houses" into consideration.

For example, I maybe can earn 100,000 RMB(0.7 million rupees) every year,but one apparment cost so much that I have to pay 70,000 RMB to banks,then only 30,000 RMB
(0.21 million Rupees) are left for me........how can I be labeled as "mid-class",when I am in fact is the slavery of my house?

that is why CCP was laughed at so fiercely ,when CCP fished out such a loose definition of "mid-class" .
that is also why so many young chinese like me feel so angry and funny ,when We found so many "slavery of houses" became " mid-class" overnight.......
 

badguy2000

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I realy hope what you said is true. But it is not the fact.

The fact is most of chinese just get out of poverty and is stuggling to get the "middle class" life as you said.

According to my personal experience, only when your yearly income reach 8000RMB, you can start a "middle class" life.
maybe you mean "monthly income reach 8000 RMB",don't you?

a yearly income of 8000 RMB just makes you as poor as beggars in CHina.
 

badguy2000

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M8... I think you are confused on rupee value. 100,000 RMB is only Rs600,000, not 1.5m. And official classification of middle class is 60,000RMB+. It may vary from location, but that is the median benchmark. 80 million Chinese make that.

that is why I insist that you be CCTVed tooooo much........

only 80 million CHinese make that??????

Maybe where I am living is not CHina.....:twizt:

BTW,sir,1 RMB=about 7 rupess, I think.so 200,000 RMB = 1.4-1.5 million Rupees...
 

Vladimir79

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sir,1 RMB=about 7 rupess, I think.so 200,000 RMB = 1.4-1.5 million Rupees...
that is why I insist that you be CCTVed tooooo much........

only 80 million CHinese make that??????
I see you editted your post... There is no reason to hide your oversight.

Maybe where I am living is not CHina.....:twizt:
Maybe you living in revision land... I don't know. :viannen_51:
 

p2prada

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Chinese definition of "mid-class" is much more strict than India's and very close to west standard,
IMHO,only provided that all the following are all managed at the same time, one chinese family can be labeled as "mid-class" in china.

1. the family should have a decent stable family yearly income...in coastal china, it should be 200,000 RMB at least ( about 1.5 million Rupees) . In inland china, the threshold can be loosened to 100,000RMB(0.7 million Rupees).

2. the family should own two houses at least.
many CHinese young white-collars like me maybe can earn 100,000 RMB(1.5 million rupees) or more every year.but because the price of houses rockets soooo fast, they still can not buy their house for time being and have to rent house.
Those chinese young white-collars can not be labeled as "mid-class" yet.

3. one of the couple should have a stable decent job ,such as bankers,doctors,teachers,civil servants ....etc.

CCP's offical loose definition of "mid-class" is bashed sooo fiercely ,just because the definition does't take the "ownership of houses" into consideration.

For example, I maybe can earn 100,000 RMB(0.7 million rupees) every year,but one apparment cost so much that I have to pay 70,000 RMB to banks,then only 30,000 RMB
(0.21 million Rupees) are left for me........how can I be labeled as "mid-class",when I am in fact is the slavery of my house?

that is why CCP was laughed at so fiercely ,when CCP fished out such a loose definition of "mid-class" .
that is also why so many young chinese like me feel so angry and funny ,when We found so many "slavery of houses" became " mid-class" overnight.......
All of what you have posted is true; in India, China and also the first world developed countries too.

Owning a house does not mean you have to be middle class. A lot of Business men in India do not own houses for the simple fact of avoiding taxes. They live in rented houses. My grandma has rented out her villa to a scientist family at 0.3million a month. That family has no house of their own, but they are obviously classified as above middle class.

Middle class does not have a proper definition. Different countries have different definitions. One proper way of looking at middle class is by their spending features. If a person is able to spend on food, health, education etc and is still left with 30% of his salary for other purposes, then he can be termed as middle class.

1. the family should have a decent stable family yearly income...in coastal china, it should be 200,000 RMB at least ( about 1.5 million Rupees) . In inland china, the threshold can be loosened to 100,000RMB(0.7 million Rupees).
With these figures, the cost of living in China is way higher than in India. An engineering college graduate in India will earn between Rs 0.2 to 0.3 million and will still lead a more than comfortable bachelor's life. Rs 1.5 million/year is enough for him to buy a house within 5 years(without a loan), considering a 3 bedroom flat in Bangalore's suburbs costs Rs 3 to 4 million along with a decent car and will still be left with half the money.
 

Rage

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Chinese definition of "mid-class" is much more strict than India's and very close to west standard,
IMHO,only provided that all the following are all managed at the same time, one chinese family can be labeled as "mid-class" in china.

1. the family should have a decent stable family yearly income...in coastal china, it should be 200,000 RMB at least ( about 1.5 million Rupees) . In inland china, the threshold can be loosened to 100,000RMB(0.7 million Rupees).

2. the family should own two houses at least.
many CHinese young white-collars like me maybe can earn 100,000 RMB(1.5 million rupees) or more every year.but because the price of houses rockets soooo fast, they still can not buy their house for time being and have to live in rented house.
Those chinese young white-collars can not be labeled as "mid-class" yet.

3. one of the couple should have a stable decent job ,such as bankers,doctors,teachers,civil servants ....etc.

CCP's offical loose definition of "mid-class" is bashed sooo fiercely ,just because the definition does't take the "ownership of houses" into consideration.

For example, I maybe can earn 100,000 RMB(0.7 million rupees) every year,but one apparment cost so much that I have to pay 70,000 RMB to banks,then only 30,000 RMB
(0.21 million Rupees) are left for me........how can I be labeled as "mid-class",when I am in fact is the slavery of my house?

that is why CCP was laughed at so fiercely ,when CCP fished out such a loose definition of "mid-class" .
that is also why so many young chinese like me feel so angry and funny ,when We found so many "slavery of houses" became " mid-class" overnight.......

Irrelevant. The distinction arises because of the differences in local PPP in terms of a local consumer basket of goods. In India, a salary of $1080 for instance, can buy you $5225.80 of a basket of goods calculated as per the World Bank's purchasing power parity multiples. In China, an average salary of $2500 can buy you $8330.30 of a basket of goods. That equates to a PPP multiple of 4.838 vs 3.33 for India and China.


In addition, here's something you should know about India's middle class:

- Land and property holdings account for about 51% of wealth, with 30% in cash and deposits

- Average middle class families of 4.3 people typically lives 900sqf apartments; 71% own properties, and 9% have a mortgage

- Household savings are low at 13% of annual income; mainly to meet emergency needs, healthcare and education costs.

- Very high aspirations for children with 43% wanting their kids to get a master’s degree and 29% a doctorate


The CLSA, India and the NCAER defines 'middle class' as households, whose income ranges between Rs. 2-10 lakh: $4,000 to $21,000 (at 2001-02 prices) annually. Which is what McKinsey Global Institute uses in its book, Bird of Gold.
 

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