India S-400 Acquisition - News Updates and Discussions

[AmoghaVarsha]

There is too much confusion regarding the number of radars and launchers. Seems its intentional.

Batteries, battalions, squadrons, units all kinds of words have been used.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Delivered

 

[Shashank Nayak]

Anything on India buying S-500 ?

 

[Covfefe]

No chance, US will sanction the hell out of India. This may be one time waiver and a slap of the wrist kinda sanctions on some companies, but buying S500 after their protests will be like taking a leak on their faces. Plus by the time Ruskies S500 gets Operational, India's BMD program will have done significant progress

Anything on India buying S-500 ?

 

[Shashank Nayak]

No chance, US will sanction the hell out of India. This may be one time waiver and a slap of the wrist kinda sanctions on some companies, but buying S500 after their protests will be like taking a leak on their faces. Plus by the time Ruskies S500 gets Operational, India's BMD program will have done significant progress

That one time waiver line is bu** .. India will continue buying Russian weapons.. Although S-500 will probably be a red line with CAATSA sanctions..

 

[Covfefe]

That one time waiver line is bu** .. India will continue buying Russian weapons.. Although S-500 will probably be a red line with CAATSA sanctions..

Any big ticket item, hardly. A dozen of old Migs and Sukhois won't matter to the Muricans. They just don't want the Indian money to be part of oxygen that keeps the Ruskies defence industry alive.

 

[ezsasa]

Any big ticket item, hardly. A dozen of old Migs and Sukhois won't matter to the Muricans. They just don't want the Indian money to be part of oxygen that keeps the Ruskies defence industry alive.

China is a bigger client to Russia than India.

 

[Covfefe]

China is a bigger client to Russia than India.

A sliding away client, in defence hardware terms. Major contribution is coming from their indigenous efforts. Indian hardware contribution from Ruskies has also declined- more towards western ones. Muricans know this and want to take away the oxygen from Russian defence industries- they know that China will slide away on its own, and Indians can be pressurised thru the way of sanctions and the offer for Murican weapons. Piecemeal orders from Egypt and Turkey and other African nations won't keep the industry alive(interestingly when China is eating into that market share already) without backing of bigger nations like China and India, especially when Russia's domestic defence budget has gone to gutters. Much will unfold depending on Muricans approach to China- if they decide to take them on , they'll have to cut down on Anti-Russia rhetoric, otherwise they might end up being routed out from Asia altogether like Afghanistan. India, for sure, won't downgrade it's ties with Ruskies and Chongs simultaneously given the geography.

 

[vampyrbladez]

A sliding away client, in defence hardware terms. Major contribution is coming from their indigenous efforts. Indian hardware contribution from Ruskies has also declined- more towards western ones. Muricans know this and want to take away the oxygen from Russian defence industries- they know that China will slide away on its own, and Indians can be pressurised thru the way of sanctions and the offer for Murican weapons. Piecemeal orders from Egypt and Turkey and other African nations won't keep the industry alive(interestingly when China is eating into that market share already) without backing of bigger nations like China and India, especially when Russia's domestic defence budget has gone to gutters. Much will unfold depending on Muricans approach to China- if they decide to take them on , they'll have to cut down on Anti-Russia rhetoric, otherwise they might end up being routed out from Asia altogether like Afghanistan. India, for sure, won't downgrade it's ties with Ruskies and Chongs simultaneously given the geography.

Russians will continue to sell equipment to India whether the US likes it or not. Sanctioning India is not same as with Turkey.

By sheer size, military strength, economy, population, strategic positioning and global clout, an ally of India will be more dominant in the Indo Pacific.

Besides India is working on XRSAM and BMD which makes the S500 redundant.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

A sliding away client, in defence hardware terms. Major contribution is coming from their indigenous efforts. Indian hardware contribution from Ruskies has also declined- more towards western ones. Muricans know this and want to take away the oxygen from Russian defence industries- they know that China will slide away on its own, and Indians can be pressurised thru the way of sanctions and the offer for Murican weapons. Piecemeal orders from Egypt and Turkey and other African nations won't keep the industry alive(interestingly when China is eating into that market share already) without backing of bigger nations like China and India, especially when Russia's domestic defence budget has gone to gutters. Much will unfold depending on Muricans approach to China- if they decide to take them on , they'll have to cut down on Anti-Russia rhetoric, otherwise they might end up being routed out from Asia altogether like Afghanistan. India, for sure, won't downgrade it's ties with Ruskies and Chongs simultaneously given the geography.

First 2+2 with Russia, Logistics agreement with Russia.. India is doing the sort of things with Russia now, that was once reserved for US and its minions.
And the chief reason for this, is how the US fled from Afghanistan handing over the nation to the Taliban / ISI, after legitimizing Taliban .. while still continuing to court Pakistan after the debacle.. India is pretty much isolated in the region, and re-building ties with Russia and Iran is the only way to get things back on track, and for India to have some say in regional affairs..

 

[Shashank Nayak]

Any big ticket item, hardly. A dozen of old Migs and Sukhois won't matter to the Muricans. They just don't want the Indian money to be part of oxygen that keeps the Ruskies defence industry alive.

There will be big ticket Russian items too.. let's not come to Conclusions too quickly.. Remember, if push comes to shove some day in the future, the French too can be forced by the US to sanction India, but that is not the case with Russia..

 

[Shashank Nayak]

The weekend was a good show of a French counter punch to Muricans for their AUKUS surprise. They pulled off a massive Rafale deal with UAE, with Biden laying out umpteen conditions for the delivery of 50 scaled down F-35s..
To top it off, Macron personally met Prince Salman, whom no western leader has met after the Khashoggi affair.

 

[ezsasa]

The weekend was a good show of a French counter punch to Muricans for their AUKUS surprise. They pulled off a massive Rafale deal with UAE, with Biden laying out umpteen conditions for the delivery of 50 scaled down F-35s..
To top it off, Macron personally met Prince Salman, whom no western leader has met after the Khashoggi affair.

whenever I read such comments on macron, first thing that pops up in my head is this image

 

[Covfefe]

First 2+2 with Russia, Logistics agreement with Russia.. India is doing the sort of thing switch Russia now, that was once reserved for US and its minions.
And the chief reason for this, is how the US fled from Afghanistan handing over the nation to the Taliban / ISI, after legitimizing Taliban .. while still continuing to court Pakistan after the debacle.. India is pretty much isolated in the region, and re-building ties with Russia and Iran is the only way to get things back on track, and for India to have some say in regional affairs..

Rebuilding relations with Russia isn't just Indian interest, it's also Russia's. They know that India won't forever remain their defence client and hence the push for a broad based relationship in the field of energy, technology and other economic areas. 2+2 is pretty standard diplomatic exercise for strategic partners- until now it was with Jap, US and Australia, and now with the Ruskies. Like Indians, Russians too don't trust the Chongs- so broadbasing is in their interest too. Might have some silent consent from the Muricans as well (my individual speculation- given that they too want to renegotiate with Iran and seeking China's and Ruskie help for that). And that logistics agreement is more like a diplomatic monkey balancing act- Russian armed forces do not even regularly operate in the IOR and India does not have any bases in the areas they actually do.
Iran is very unpredictable and Pakistan is a whore- China has some leverage with Iran and the Muricans all the leverage with Pak(regardless of what the Lahori anchors sing in favor of China). Taliban are also struggling- don't see the Chongs or the Ruskies bankrolling them. There is no clear order in the region. As i mentioned in the previous post too, a lot will depend on American response- if they try to fight everyone in the region simultaneously- Chongs, Ruskies and the Iranians, then definitely India will backtrack. Otherwise, if they are willing to make concessions to the Iranians and the Ruskies(problem is America always acts rationally other than the cases where Israel's interests coincide) , western alignment suits India's interests more

 

[Covfefe]

There will be big ticket Russian items too.. let's not come to Conclusions too quickly.. Remember, if push comes to shove some day in the future, the French too can be forced by the US to sanction India, but that is not the case with Russia..

In case of a conflict with the Chongs, I would trust Muricans more than the Ruskies.
In case of a conflict with Porks, I would trust the Ruskies more than the Muricans.
It's not a good situation to be in. India's fear of US sanctions and the good memories of Ruski support comes from the days of cold wars when we were aligned with the Ruskies (contrary to whatever sermons of NAM the Nehruvians preach). France can sanction India at the behest of the US- true, but even Russia can "delay"/ hold the delivery of war stores during any active conflict with the Chongs given how they have them by their economic balls. No one is Kosher and a prediction based on history alone might not be the best judgement

 

[Shashank Nayak]

In case of a conflict with the Chongs, I would trust Muricans more than the Ruskies.
In case of a conflict with Porks, I would trust the Ruskies more than the Muricans.
It's not a good situation to be in. India's fear of US sanctions and the good memories of Ruski support comes from the days of cold wars when we were aligned with the Ruskies (contrary to whatever sermons of NAM the Nehruvians preach). France can sanction India at the behest of the US- true, but even Russia can "delay"/ hold the delivery of war stores during any active conflict with the Chongs given how they have them by their economic balls. No one is Kosher and a prediction based on history alone might not be the best judgement

And that is why I said, India keeps all its option open.. India will not stop buying big ticket Russian items, just like it won't stop buying big ticket French or American items..
If the Americans threaten to stop selling big ticket items to India, if we don't stop buying Russian items, then so be it.. It is Uncle Sam's decision to make...
Happenings in Ukraine, suggest that US will have to dramatically strengthen its posture against Russia in Europe, if it wants to deter Russia. That will throw Resource constrained America's Pivot to Asia Plans off balance.
Perversely, This will further increase Murican dependence on India, to help deter China..

Modi to Biden:

Kar na Sanction Madarc*od

 

[JBH22]

Any big ticket item, hardly. A dozen of old Migs and Sukhois won't matter to the Muricans. They just don't want the Indian money to be part of oxygen that keeps the Ruskies defence industry alive.

That is the part where we should not align. Subsiding Russian MIC gives a sense of multi polar order. If their MIC collapse, it will be again free run for colonialism. Post WW2 it was Soviet weapons that prevent former colonies from being raped again.
Never put all your eggs in Yankee basket.

 

[Covfefe]

That is the part where we should not align. Subsiding Russian MIC gives a sense of multi polar order. If their MIC collapse, it will be again free run for colonialism. Post WW2 it was Soviet weapons that prevent former colonies from being raped again.
Never put all your eggs in Yankee basket.

The thing we all must definitely align is the creation of a domestic MIC, and till that time keep procuring based on our needs and diplomatic gains. There is no difference in being colonised by either the Imperialists or the Communists- for the oppressed, it's always bad. Ruskies didn't do less damage to India- economically, socially or otherwise. All the communist scum prevalent in academia and institutions has its roots in USSR's support.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

The thing we all must definitely align is the creation of a domestic MIC, and till that time keep procuring based on our needs and diplomatic gains. There is no difference in being colonised by either the Imperialists or the Communists- for the oppressed, it's always bad. Ruskies didn't do less damage to India- economically, socially or otherwise. All the communist scum prevalent in academia and institutions has its roots in USSR's support.

Yep.. Leverage Yankee, Ruskie, Frenchie mic to build our own mic.. while trying to keep all options open in the mean time...

 

[JBH22]

The thing we all must definitely align is the creation of a domestic MIC, and till that time keep procuring based on our needs and diplomatic gains. There is no difference in being colonised by either the Imperialists or the Communists- for the oppressed, it's always bad. Ruskies didn't do less damage to India- economically, socially or otherwise. All the communist scum prevalent in academia and institutions has its roots in USSR's support.

Our domestic MIC is yet to mature. To tell you the truth many things we do not have the know how or will to build quality products.
Russkies MIC can give us some leverage when choosing our weapons. If full pivot to US camp is done say bye bye to strategic independence or autonomy. We will become another japan at best or another Pakistan type randi at worst.