India refuses talks over Kashmir issue with Pakistan

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India refuses talks over Kashmir issue with Pakistan
ISLAMABAD: India on Thursday formally rejected Pakistan's proposal to hold exclusive talks on the issue of Kashmir and said it will only discuss the issue of terrorism alleged infiltration of militants with Pakistan, it has been learnt.
India's Secretary for External Affairs S. J. Shankar wrote a letter to Islamabad, in which it was mentioned that "India would not hold dialogue with Pakistan over Kashmir issue."
Indian High Commissioner in Islamabad Gotam Bambawale handed over the letter to Secretary Foreign Affairs Aizaz Chaudhry.
Earlier this month, a letter was written by Foreign Affairs secretary to his Indian counterpart Shankar, inviting him to visit Islamabad to hold bilateral talks on the disputed territories of Jammu and Kashmir.
"India has rejected the proposal saying that it would only hold talk with Pakistan on terrorism and the alleged infiltration of militants from the Line of Control (LoC)," said the Foreign Office.
"Suitable response would be delivered to New Delhi after thorough consultations," said the officials in Islamabad.
The letter written by Pakistan had highlighted the international obligation of both countries to resolve the Jammu and Kashmir dispute in accordance with the resolutions of the UN Security Council.
The offer by Pakistan was made despite the Independence Day speech of Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi in which he spoke about alleged human rights abuses in Balochistan, Azad Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan.
On August 12, Adviser to Prime Minister on Foreign Affairs Sartaj Aziz had offered a dedicated dialogue to India on Kashmir and observed that India’s policy of not engaging in a comprehensive dialogue with Pakistan was not conducive for peace in South Asia.
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aditya10r

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Hadd BAKRICHOD log hote hain yeh paki
Kabhi kabhi khushi HOTI hai ki hamar partition ho gaya aur main border ke uss taraf paisa nai hua
 
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@Kunal Biswas @sayareakd @pmaitra @Yusuf
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For these ill informed pakis, who do propaganda about India's violation of the resolution (and some Indians agree).
United Nations Security Council Resolution 47:
http://www.un.org/en/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=S/RES/47(1948)
Page: no. 4:
Screenshot_2016-08-26-13-52-22.png

Page no. 5
Screenshot_2016-08-26-13-53-36.png

As we can see, there is mention of Plebiscite inside the J&K,
Entire responsibility of conducting the plebiscite and administrating the entire state, providing security to the state.
Pakistani infiltrators and tribes can't considered Kashmiri people, nor PoK belongs to the Pakistan. They'll have to withdraw infiltrators and legally, PoK must get back to the Indian Administration till the result of plebiscite.
India can be abide for resolution only if Pakistan gives PoK back, stop it's intruders and insurgents.
@tsunami expressed concerns of sanctions over the possible war. So man, we can't be sanctioned annexing.
India has a legal claim over it.:)
 

tsunami

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.
@tsunami expressed concerns of sanctions over the possible war. So man, we can't be sanctioned annexing.
India has a legal claim over it.:)
Bro I know UN resolution about Kashmir.
But we do not have anything to do with Baluchistan(Atleast it's not disputed). My entire point was regarding possible war of Baluchistan not POK. But the moment we cross international border and enter in sindh situation is much worse.
And world might come up with sections. (I know you were not mentioning a scenario like that but some people were doing that).
 
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Bro I know UN resolution about Kashmir.
But we do not have anything to do with Baluchistan(Atleast it's not disputed). My entire point was regarding possible war of Baluchistan not POK. But the moment we cross international border and enter in sindh situation is much worse.
And world might come up with sections. (I know you were not mentioning a scenario like that but some people were doing that).
Well, there's a point too, if we don't have enough support to declare Baluchistan disputed or invading it, pakistan too possesses way weaker voice to make us sanctioned. We too know, given India's new position, most of countries gonna remain silent.;)

And let's not make strategies publicly on forum till the correct time comes. This thread is for defending India's stance according to international law.
Let's show our goodwill.
 

tsunami

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Well, there's a point too, if we don't have enough support to declare Baluchistan disputed or invading it, pakistan too possesses way weaker voice to make us sanctioned. We too know, given India's new position, most of countries gonna remain silent.;)

And let's not make strategies publicly on forum till the correct time comes. This thread is for defending India's stance according to international law.
Let's show our goodwill.
That's the only point where I beg to differ. Many countries and foreign firms have just investing in India. Also many are still thinking of investing. But they have not invested so much that we can imagine India in a new position. That's I am fine with anything covert but thinking about anything overt before 2025 and hoping no harm will come to us economically is a little bit over optimistic.

And trust me I am a normal IT employee, If i can think of these things then Porkis too. So don't worry I am in no position to reveal strategies for the country :p Don't know about you though :)
 
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That's the only point where I beg to differ. Many countries and foreign firms have just investing in India. Also many are still thinking of investing. But they have not invested so much that we can imagine India in a new position. That's I am fine with anything covert but thinking about anything overt before 2025 and hoping no harm will come to us economically is a little bit over optimistic.

And trust me I am a normal IT employee, If i can think of these things then Porkis too. So don't worry I am in no position to reveal strategies for the country :p Don't know about you though :)
I'm not talking about the investment only.
I'm talking about position in international politics, military and economy as well.
 

aditya10r

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I'm not talking about the investment only.
I'm talking about position in international politics, military and economy as well.
if invading balochistan is our primary plan
then it will be expensive
we will need to have a very capable navy able to project power anywhere in the IOR+staright of homruz
a good air force(which is still some 15-20 years away)
an army with proper equipment and planning......
all this is some 15-20 years away before we become top 3 economy and dont fuck up with anything
+waging a war is very expensive
the best thing we should do is to acquire every goddamn business at which pakis are doing pretty good like cotton industry and agriculture
 

spikey360

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There shall be no talks one hopes. The blood of innocent brothers and sisters killed in Pak sponsored Islamic terrorism cries for revenge. It is our duty to avenge them.

Let us annihilate Pakistan from the face of the earth.
 

spikey360

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if invading balochistan is our primary plan
then it will be expensive
we will need to have a very capable navy able to project power anywhere in the IOR+staright of homruz
a good air force(which is still some 15-20 years away)
an army with proper equipment and planning......
all this is some 15-20 years away before we become top 3 economy and dont fuck up with anything
+waging a war is very expensive
the best thing we should do is to acquire every goddamn business at which pakis are doing pretty good like cotton industry and agriculture
Disagree with you except for the proper equipment and planning part. You can never plan for an invasion 15-20 years away. 2/3 years away, yes. You cannot know if there will be that country or not after so many years or if it will become more powerful than yours or will wither away into insignificance.
Anyway, what we would need to do before everything would be to snatch Pakistan nuclear jewels. Either that, or develop a very very reliable ~90% anti-air and anti BM systems. Anything less than that and we'll have to deal with nuclear bombs.
 

aditya10r

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Disagree with you except for the proper equipment and planning part. You can never plan for an invasion 15-20 years away. 2/3 years away, yes. You cannot know if there will be that country or not after so many years or if it will become more powerful than yours or will wither away into insignificance.
Anyway, what we would need to do before everything would be to snatch Pakistan nuclear jewels. Either that, or develop a very very reliable ~90% anti-air and anti BM systems. Anything less than that and we'll have to deal with nuclear bombs.
No sir I was saying it will take 15-20 years to have a credible naval fleet and air power.only after then we can think about any direct military intervention.u ntil then we should supply the rebel arms,plant some moles in the govt. And army and fill their blood with drugs and their economy with fake currency,occupy every goddamn business and become an industrial hub in the next 20 years so that we would be militarily and economically ready for any military action from our side.
Our navy has good quality of ships but needs to grow at least twice in the next 2 decades
Our air force may be ready by 2030-35.
By 2030-35 we can expect our army to be more than ready to raze down any force.
And economically I can expect our economical size to be 8-9 times more than what it is today by MER.
+Bonus point
Before launching an invasion we should declare emergency in the country so that no human right NGO or any pro pak/pro China voices could be heard.
Attack will have to be swift and fast
The entire campaign should not last more than 15 days because if it goes beyond that it will strain our economy and increase international political pressure.
It will be quite difficult to keep iran quite because it wants a price of land from Baluchistan.
And if we fail to disintegrate PORKILAND then it will be a failure.
We may succeed in destroying PORKILAND and even de nuclearizing them but the sympathy will go on their side.
WE WILL HAVE TO PLAY IT SAFE AND FAST.
wait for the right time
And as for you disagreement with me
VICTORY LOVES PREPARATION.we should keep conducting cold start doctrine exercises and sometimes something like operation brasstacks
 

spikey360

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By 2030-35 we can expect our army to be more than ready to raze down any force.
And economically I can expect our economical size to be 8-9 times more than what it is today by MER.
These are all speculations and extrapolations. For Pakistan, our Navy, Army and AF are enough.
Also remember as years progress, if Status Quo exists, China will keep multiplying their fleet as will USA and Russia. So comparatively, we will still remain #3 or #4.
Numbers won't win wars. Preparation and Strategy will. This is what thousands of years of warfare has taught us.
 

aditya10r

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sever post: 1197171 said:
These are all speculations and extrapolations. For Pakistan, our Navy, Army and AF are enough.
Also remember as years progress, if Status Quo exists, China will keep multiplying their fleet as will USA and Russia. So comparatively, we will still remain #3 or #4.
Numbers won't win wars. Preparation and Strategy will. This is what thousands of years of warfare has taught us.
But this time we will have to execute every damn thing coz no world power will gonna come an save us and the Chinese will come for sure.
They won't attack us but they will send a carrier battle group to save their investments.
Economically we will be 3rd largest for sure and will be a middle income economy by then standards.
Numerical advantage is required and this we need it more than ever because we never faced a this big threat and there is no country backing us.
 
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@spikey360
I guess we literally need a fleet not only to invade Pak but stop third party intervention as well.
In 1971, we had USSR to protect ourselves from USA and UK, this time, US, Russia or China, nobody is going to involve on our side. In fact, they can send fleet to support pak.
We need strategy as well as a bigger Navy.
One of the fleet to invade Baluchistan and other fleets covering around (must have teeth) to stop any foreign intervention till we complete our task in Baluchistan. I guess we used Soviet for same purpose for Bangladesh, stopped US till BD liberation.
 

aditya10r

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@spikey360
I guess we literally need a fleet not only to invade Pak but stop third party intervention as well.
In 1971, we had USSR to protect ourselves from USA and UK, this time, US, Russia or China, nobody is going to involve on our side. In fact, they can send fleet to support pak.
We need strategy as well as a bigger Navy.
One of the fleet to invade Baluchistan and other fleets covering around (must have teeth) to stop any foreign intervention till we complete our task in Baluchistan. I guess we used Soviet for same purpose for Bangladesh, stopped US till BD liberation.
That's what I was saying...................................................
 

spikey360

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@spikey360
I guess we literally need a fleet not only to invade Pak but stop third party intervention as well.
In 1971, we had USSR to protect ourselves from USA and UK, this time, US, Russia or China, nobody is going to involve on our side. In fact, they can send fleet to support pak.
We need strategy as well as a bigger Navy.
One of the fleet to invade Baluchistan and other fleets covering around (must have teeth) to stop any foreign intervention till we complete our task in Baluchistan. I guess we used Soviet for same purpose for Bangladesh, stopped US till BD liberation.
Yes, we need a fleet. Yes, we have a fleet.
Is it big? Not as big as we'd like to have.
Is it small? No.
Is it capable of withstanding war with Pakistan today? Yes.
Will it be able to face Pak+USA? Yes.
Who are our friends? Russia, Japan, Iran, France and Israel to some extent.
Among them who might send us supplies and backup if war breaks out today? Russia, France and Israel to some extent.
Which is a more potent force? Pak+USA or India+allies: India+allies

Remember, USA has the power to project power throughout the world. So powerful are they, that they lost to
1 Viet Congs
2 Rag tag afghan millitants/Taliban in Afghanistan
3 Insurgents in Iraq
So what are the achievements of this great power in the last decade?
1 Morbidly afraid of Iranian boats in Strait of Hormuz
2 Dare not do anything in Ukraine to upset Russia
3 Doesn't dare poke China with a torpedo in SCS
4 Completely lost the plot in Libya and got overran by infant ISIS
5 Created ISIS in Syria, Iraq & Levante, yet completely unable to uproot Assad with it.
6 Shamed publicly and bombed publicly by Russia, both their children ISIS and Al-Nusra are biting the dust against Assad. US couldn't even muster the courage for a 'Humanitarian Intervention'

I could probably go on, the list is not exhaustive, but, you get the picture.
The US military does not exist in Transformer movie series my friend, it does in the real world. Real world is not as frail and weak as you think. It is not an easy thing to come in someone's backyard and uproot them.
USA has failed to successfully invade any country since WW2. What would make one think they are a great power anyway? Their power now only exists in their mouths and loins.

Therefore, I completely reject your view that they (USA) will have much success when they come into the Arabian Sea or Bay of Bengal in favour of Pakistan. These are our ponds, and we will sink every single boat USA sends, if we have to.
 
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Yes, we need a fleet. Yes, we have a fleet.
Is it big? Not as big as we'd like to have.
Is it small? No.
Is it capable of withstanding war with Pakistan today? Yes.
Will it be able to face Pak+USA? Yes.
Who are our friends? Russia, Japan, Iran, France and Israel to some extent.
Among them who might send us supplies and backup if war breaks out today? Russia, France and Israel to some extent.
Which is a more potent force? Pak+USA or India+allies: India+allies

Remember, USA has the power to project power throughout the world. So powerful are they, that they lost to
1 Viet Congs
2 Rag tag afghan millitants/Taliban in Afghanistan
3 Insurgents in Iraq
So what are the achievements of this great power in the last decade?
1 Morbidly afraid of Iranian boats in Strait of Hormuz
2 Dare not do anything in Ukraine to upset Russia
3 Doesn't dare poke China with a torpedo in SCS
4 Completely lost the plot in Libya and got overran by infant ISIS
5 Created ISIS in Syria, Iraq & Levante, yet completely unable to uproot Assad with it.
6 Shamed publicly and bombed publicly by Russia, both their children ISIS and Al-Nusra are biting the dust against Assad. US couldn't even muster the courage for a 'Humanitarian Intervention'

I could probably go on, the list is not exhaustive, but, you get the picture.
The US military does not exist in Transformer movie series my friend, it does in the real world. Real world is not as frail and weak as you think. It is not an easy thing to come in someone's backyard and uproot them.
USA has failed to successfully invade any country since WW2. What would make one think they are a great power anyway? Their power now only exists in their mouths and loins.

Therefore, I completely reject your view that they (USA) will have much success when they come into the Arabian Sea or Bay of Bengal in favour of Pakistan. These are our ponds, and we will sink every single boat USA sends, if we have to.
Buddy, US has denied to support us at first place as per their interests because India is also to be contained and occupied to a limited region as long as can be done.
Will China cover us,
Obviously no.
Russia is more leaned towards China.
Israel and Japan (to some extent due to PRC) are even falling short in own security.
As Iran too possess Baluchistan but our ally, it will either remain neutral or agalinst us, but won't support us at all.
Plus, if we really want to portray ourselves as a major force, we must do it ourselves after building a more capable force.


Yes, I know world isn't weak and we can't uproot someone easily in their backyards.
But it's our backyard,
Afghanistan, Iran, India who is mostly surrounding their country.
And the other major thing we need a strategy. With an obsolete strategy, you'll no matter how much quantity and quality of the military you possess.
 

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