India puts embargo on import of 101 defence items to boost 'self-reliance': Rajnath Singh

fire starter

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This guy is a <redacted>!! License production is always better than direct import??!! Really??!! How, exactly??

Mod: foul Language redacted..
well if any private company is doing license manufacturing then expect that within few years they will come out of their own product related to that and it also gives experience.
 

ArgonPrime

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With licensed production at least you are indigenously developing the products creating supply chains which will help in maintenance
Experiences so far do not corroborate your theory. HAL has been license manufacturing jets for decades and still, we are completely dependent on the foreign suppliers for their spare support which we need to import from the respective OEMs - be it Mig 21s or Jags or SUs.

and supporting local companies.
Support local companies should be the least of concerns for any armed forces.
Take example of K-9 vajra which is build by L&T or su-30 in which 20+ million $ for each su-30 is build by local private sector i think at least some local involvement is better than nothing.
Only if it's just the rotables and consumables that are manufactured under license. But merely assembling weapons platforms from imported kits is never gonna be an economically sound practice. It doesn't give us any, and I repeat any practical advantage for all the extra hassle and extra money spent. Do you know that a so-called indigenously manufactured MKI costs the exchequer twice as much as it would if imported directly from the OEM?? And what do we have to show for this - I'll tell you what - NOTHING!! A big fat nothing.
 

ezsasa

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Only if it's just the rotables and consumables that are manufactured under license. But merely assembling weapons platforms from imported kits is never gonna be an economically sound practice. It doesn't give us any, and I repeat any practical advantage for all the extra hassle and extra money spent. Do you know that a so-called indigenously manufactured MKI costs the exchequer twice as much as it would if imported directly from the OEM?? And what do we have to show for this - I'll tell you what - NOTHING!! A big fat nothing.
Going in reverse the value chain is not a bad idea either, just like reliance. Reliance started with vimal first and gradually went in reverse direction to petroleum.

but yes, it is an issue when you get stuck in one stage for too long, in this case screwdriver-giri.

in HAL'S case they haven't done that bad either, when they got firm mandate from GoI to create an domestic ecosystem, they did it as in the case of LCA & Dhruv sub-components within the country.

It all boils down to policy mandate at the top from GoI.
 

Assassin 2.0

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Support local companies should be the least of concerns for any armed forces.
Good luck with that but most of the professional militaries are future minded and support technological developments. If they will not support local equipments then they should not also cry for expensive spares and strategic vulnerability which that provides but seeing how thing's are growing IA is also acknowledging this.
Experiences so far do not corroborate your theory. HAL has been license manufacturing jets for decades and still, we are completely dependent on the foreign suppliers for their spare support which we need to import from the respective OEMs - be it Mig 21s or Jags or SUs.
Well it's the failure of HAL. But non the less still HAL have successfully indigenous Sukhoi su-30MKi.
We have reached Phase - 4 which means HAL is building engine frame everything. "saying completely dependent isn't factual when you see Government reports.
We have indigenously updated the structure of su-30mki to use it with bhramos and many others system of multiple origins are integrated by india.

Well in case of MIG-21 we were manufacturing technically everything for that aircraft from engines to frame updates.

An Indian facility that makes Su-30MKI jets may shut down, toppling 400 local suppliers

An executive with the industry lobby group Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce & Industry, said 400 local suppliers that build about 6,000 components worth $12.5 million for each Su-30MKI fighter may also shut down if no new orders are placed with HAL.
Well we are utilizing tot that's why private sector is able to build these equipment in the first place.

Rolls-Royce Turbomeca Adour engine which is used in jaguar aircrafts UK transferred some tot to india and by using that we have developed indigenous Blades for that engine.

HAL HTFE-25
Also uses many Russian technologies which hal received in tot to develop this engine

Only if it's just the rotables and consumables that are manufactured under license. But merely assembling weapons platforms from imported kits is never gonna be an economically sound practice. It doesn't give us any, and I repeat any practical advantage for all the extra hassle and extra money spent. Do you know that a so-called indigenously manufactured MKI costs the exchequer twice as much as it would if imported directly from the OEM?? And what do we have to show for this - I'll tell you what - NOTHING!! A big fat nothing.
No it doesn't cost twice and that is not the fault of HAL if you go and read su-30mki deal you will get to know idiotic act by indian Mod anr politicians which agreed on local production of aircraft with imported Raw materials

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livemint.com/Politics/D4BrJrynbpn7qjet1fX7lO/Indigenous-Sukhoi30MKI-costlier-than-Russian-SU30-as-speci.html?facet=amp( even tho we can made them indigenously) this is part of the deal and because of this we price of aircraft gets increased and low manufacturing of scale compared to Russians.
Anyway few millions doesn't bug and when we spend on local equipment we save forex reserve.


Screenshot_20200810-155411~2.jpg
 
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Bhadra

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View attachment 55982

Gripen officially out of MMRCA?
Those are good clarifications especially about indigenous content to be considered by at the same time a let-off for systems like HAL helicopters like Rudra and LCH and LCA which they say is build with Indian specifications but with al foreign mal.. Arjun is also in the same category....
 

HariPrasad-1

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Right step in right direction I have been advocating this for a long long time I am happy to see that those items which I had been advocating to put in negative list are are put in negative list in reality as if this policy is made by me. Very nice, go ahead there is no point in importing Bullets, rifles and artillery shells now when we are race of space and nuclear superpower.
 

Bhadra

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14.5 AMR fires three calibers of special varieties of ammunition not made in India. So there is no atmanirbharata in that heavy iron piece given to BSF..

If they are launching Kounkurs missile and launcher testing kit now after donkey's years of IA having a wire-guided Second Generation SACLOS missile Konkurs means DRDO has not much of plans to make NAG and MPATGM .... they have given up//

Konkurs and Milam -2T both are wire-guided second-generation SACLOS missiles and Milan 02T is a single warhead missile good for Mujahids/terrorists in Afghanistan but not good for modern battle conditions where tank technology has to stage of defeating a fattu missile attacks.. .. so what kind of atmanirbharta would that be..
 

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Shri Rajnath Singh, Hon’ble Raksha Mantri inaugurated BEML’s Industrial Design Centre virtually in the presence of Hon’ble RRM; Secy. Defence; Secy. Defence (Production) amongst others. IDC will focus on implementing Human Factors,benchmarking & Ergonomics.

1597070429602.png


 

cannonfodder

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I looked at this initiative but do not really understand it. Like these restrictions can be circumvented very easily (with some amount of mental gymnastics).

Let me elaborate with only 2 examples from my side as I am more familiar with these two:
1. LCA like fighter aircraft import is blocked; But then LCA is currently in light weight category. IA can always argue that F16/F21/Gripen E/C etc are medium weight category and hence restriction do not apply to them. F35 is single engine, so we cannot bring restriction with respective to single engine fighters as well.

2. LCH is light combat heli. But again IA/IAF can always argue that hey Apache is totally different heavy category helicopter. So we will buy 50 of them and give lolipop of 25 LCH orders until XXX is integrated/improved. In short this policy is no guarantee of support to home built systems and does nothing really.

The proof of the success of "Atmanirbhar: make in india" is orders.. improvement in R&D spending to make better products. Also in reality it make sense to import 70% (home)-30% (high end imported) complementing local platforms. Like ok we have Astra-1 (pretty good) but that does not mean we don't need Meteor/AIM-20 like long range BVR to maintain upper hand. Just giving example not applicable to all cases.

@porky_kicker I looked through some of your posts. Can you clarify my doubts if you have any clarity?
 

Raj Malhotra

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I looked at this initiative but do not really understand it. Like these restrictions can be circumvented very easily (with some amount of mental gymnastics).

Let me elaborate with only 2 examples from my side as I am more familiar with these two:
1. LCA like fighter aircraft import is blocked; But then LCA is currently in light weight category. IA can always argue that F16/F21/Gripen E/C etc are medium weight category and hence restriction do not apply to them. F35 is single engine, so we cannot bring restriction with respective to single engine fighters as well.

2. LCH is light combat heli. But again IA/IAF can always argue that hey Apache is totally different heavy category helicopter. So we will buy 50 of them and give lolipop of 25 LCH orders until XXX is integrated/improved. In short this policy is no guarantee of support to home built systems and does nothing really.

The proof of the success of "Atmanirbhar: make in india" is orders.. improvement in R&D spending to make better products. Also in reality it make sense to import 70% (home)-30% (high end imported) complementing local platforms. Like ok we have Astra-1 (pretty good) but that does not mean we don't need Meteor/AIM-20 like long range BVR to maintain upper hand. Just giving example not applicable to all cases.

@porky_kicker I looked through some of your posts. Can you clarify my doubts if you have any clarity?

Dheek pakde ho, import lobby still dominates
 

porky_kicker

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I looked at this initiative but do not really understand it. Like these restrictions can be circumvented very easily (with some amount of mental gymnastics).

Let me elaborate with only 2 examples from my side as I am more familiar with these two:
1. LCA like fighter aircraft import is blocked; But then LCA is currently in light weight category. IA can always argue that F16/F21/Gripen E/C etc are medium weight category and hence restriction do not apply to them. F35 is single engine, so we cannot bring restriction with respective to single engine fighters as well.

2. LCH is light combat heli. But again IA/IAF can always argue that hey Apache is totally different heavy category helicopter. So we will buy 50 of them and give lolipop of 25 LCH orders until XXX is integrated/improved. In short this policy is no guarantee of support to home built systems and does nothing really.

The proof of the success of "Atmanirbhar: make in india" is orders.. improvement in R&D spending to make better products. Also in reality it make sense to import 70% (home)-30% (high end imported) complementing local platforms. Like ok we have Astra-1 (pretty good) but that does not mean we don't need Meteor/AIM-20 like long range BVR to maintain upper hand. Just giving example not applicable to all cases.

@porky_kicker I looked through some of your posts. Can you clarify my doubts if you have any clarity?
Yes it depends on the military and the bureaucrats , if they want to import they can find loopholes .

All depends on how the list is drafted , the accompanying conditions in the list must be very detailed and explicit inorder to deter any circumvention through loopholes.
 

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