India S-400 Acquisition - News Updates and Discussions

[WARREN SS]

S400 has order book worth 15 Billion $ for exports by India China and turkey.

Why? What other over hyped equipment sold for such amount ?

You think airforce officers of India China turkey and Russia are all idiots who approved purchase of these systems for their nations.

Why don't you over hype something and sell it for 15 Billion $ abroad ? May be donate a billion or two of your profits to us poor forum members.


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It's more of Political gimmick for them

Not us

And S-400 adds nothing more apart from
Being Another platform for BMD

Rather we should invest in our own Missles development

A5 billion $ into our own programs gives big boost to R&D

We can also corporate
Raytheon or IAI for future projects

Development of system to our Own Iron dome

We already have Brain all we need is cash and 5 billion $ in big amount

 

[WARREN SS]

Dude you are simply trying to change the topic when I called you out for putting words in my mouth. Someone with a spine would have accepted his fault and moved on, but you are just a coward. My last post on the topic. I will not reply to you now even if you do.



Yes you definitely got me when you falsely claimed that Russia doesn't sell weapons to Pakistan and I busted you with RD93 and Mi 35. Minds of idiots work in mysterious ways.

You busted me with both Yeah right RD-93 is turbofan engine not weapons which Russian supplies to China

China further send it Pakistan there no direct link btw Russia and Pakistani's
And m-35 is not some pathbreaking technology but some 40 years old helos that provide for anti-terror op that yo after 20 years
Of Pakistani's begging in Kremlin



Russians multiple times assured India that they will not sell seriou military hardware
And India multiple time protested on selling Pakistani's
Serious military hardware in future
Like UHF radar ,Anti aircraft missiles and
Fighters etc


Learn Difference of real statergic Military hardware
You are just Gerrymandering facts now
To suit your ego

 

[WARREN SS]

You are talking to a moron. Just 5 posts ago he was claiming that s400, barak 8, akash are all similar

You a moron which claimed that S-400 can shot down aircrafts from 380 Km

A buffoon who didn't have idea that
Most fighters have MAWs and ECCM and DRFM's

And buffoon who didn't know
That all these platform work together which create multiple layers of air defence
With One operation command unit

I know what are ranges and character of each Airdefence Missile

Same as S-400 which is also a multiple layers air defence
With command operational unit

You are same moron who claimed Turbofan RD-93 engine as weapon that Russians selling to Pakistan

 

[WARREN SS]

Dude you are simply trying to change the topic when I called you out for putting words in my mouth. Someone with a spine would have accepted his fault and moved on, but you are just a coward. My last post on the topic. I will not reply to you now even if you do.

You are a just a armchair expert & Military wannabe fanboy who read
Things through internet

Never in your life you will able get ass around south block or in MOD

 

[WARREN SS]

What offsets is India getting from the S-400 deal?

Nothing Zillow

Russians buffoon still fooling us like cold war when they use to sell
There cheap crap to there slave Socialist congress party

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...set-clause-for-s-400/article25145591.ece/amp/

 

[WARREN SS]

That is a secret. But claims made by NSA Ajit Doval that all deals in Defence have Technology transfer shows that there is at least some technology transfer involved

No offset involve in this deal
Don't spread misinformation

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...set-clause-for-s-400/article25145591.ece/amp/

 

[uoftotaku]

No offset involve in this deal
Don't spread misinformation

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...set-clause-for-s-400/article25145591.ece/amp/

Yes...Russia has repeatedly refused to abide by Offset Clause (among other prominent violations of the DPP) but we continue to bend over backwards for them while expecting all other vendors to strictly comply or be blacklisted.

 

[Longewala]

1971 USA was Pakistani's Ally and we Allianed with USSR

THIS theory brust your argument about US not helping it Ally in the time of need

It's Pakistan dubious policy that failed there alliance

We were not aligned with USSR (they still chose to support us, which is what we got increasingly aligned AFTER 1971), and it was the US which chose to fully arm and support Napaks while knowing what was happening in East Napak - not because they were "alllies" or "friends", simply because they are opportunistic, immoral scum.

Yes, given the size of economy and trade makes sense to maintain close ties with the US, but never forget your history.

 

[Longewala]

Yes...Russia has repeatedly refused to abide by Offset Clause (among other prominent violations of the DPP) but we continue to bend over backwards for them while expecting all other vendors to strictly comply or be blacklisted.

There is a reason.
Here is a hypothetical scenario: no Russia.

Can you imagine any Western country selling us the equivalent of SU-30MKI for a mere 60-70 mn each, collaborating on a cutting edge missile like Brahmos or letting us lease / develop nuke subs?

 

[uoftotaku]

There is a reason.
Here is a hypothetical scenario: no Russia.

Can you imagine any Western country selling us the equivalent of SU-30MKI for a mere 60-70 mn each, collaborating on a cutting edge missile like Brahmos or letting us lease / develop nuke subs?

Imagine? Yes. If we had endeavored to develop as close a relationship we enjoy with Russia today with a Western country (say for eg France) over the years of the Cold War then yes for sure I can imagine such a scenario.

The fact remains that despite the official commitment to the red herring of Non-Alignment, we were for all intents and purposes aligned with the USSR and our political establishment put most if not all its eggs in that basket while ignoring the West. The West has basically repaid that by denying us critical technologies and that in diplomatic terms is fair game. The Russians on the other hand now openly and shameless exploit the situation by bending us over and having their way whenever critical tech is involved. The SU-30MKI might have cost 60-70m each to buy but how much do they cost the IAF to maintain every year? Are the prices of the spares and availability of support consistent with a "special relationship" with a trusted partner? No

 

[IndianHawk]

That may not apply to S-400!
Russia was actually quite reluctant to sell S-400 to India...in fact tied its sale to FGFA and other purchases. It's India that desperately wants S-400, so Russia may not be dictated by any Indian policy/demand.

If Russia sold s400 to china and willing to sell a NATO member turkey , there is no reason to not to sell to India. In fact more s400 can compensate the loss of fgfa deal to Russia.

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[IndianHawk]

It's more of Political gimmick for them

Not us

And S-400 adds nothing more apart from
Being Another platform for BMD

Rather we should invest in our own Missles development

A5 billion $ into our own programs gives big boost to R&D

We can also corporate
Raytheon or IAI for future projects

Development of system to our Own Iron dome

We already have Brain all we need is cash and 5 billion $ in big amount

You are right about investing into our own system part . We are doing that but XRSAM is a decade away from being operational. Meanwhile iaf has insisted on s400 to make up the shortfall in sq number as it can defend a large area as a connected long range sam system. It's more Sam than BMD.

I explained these things in previous posts.

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[IndianHawk]

Imagine? Yes. If we had endeavored to develop as close a relationship we enjoy with Russia today with a Western country (say for eg France) over the years of the Cold War then yes for sure I can imagine such a scenario.

The fact remains that despite the official commitment to the red herring of Non-Alignment, we were for all intents and purposes aligned with the USSR and our political establishment put most if not all its eggs in that basket while ignoring the West. The West has basically repaid that by denying us critical technologies and that in diplomatic terms is fair game. The Russians on the other hand now openly and shameless exploit the situation by bending us over and having their way whenever critical tech is involved. The SU-30MKI might have cost 60-70m each to buy but how much do they cost the IAF to maintain every year? Are the prices of the spares and availability of support consistent with a "special relationship" with a trusted partner? No

Su30 MKI we bought almost 272 for a grand total of 12-13 billion USD . Even if iaf spends 10billion to maintain fleet over life time and another 10-15 billion to upgrade to super sukhoi much closer to rafale standard still the whole fleet plus maintenance will be around 30 billion usd over 40 years.
For 30 billion dollars we might have got only 150 western fighter at best.

So even with Lower availablity su30 MKI is more bang for buck.


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[IndianHawk]

What offsets is India getting from the S-400 deal?

It's hard to say. Most probably it is the technology of long range Sam itself i.e. Russian assistant to develop long range seeker and interconnection of Sam.

It may be other cooperation as in SFDR project , assistant in hypersonic weapons and bramhos 2.

Or it could be further assistance in development of India SSN or the ongoing effort of bigger SSBN after Arihant.

Frankly Indo Russia ties are pretty deep still and Russia is still far ahead of other nations in partnership with India on sensitive technologies.

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[Enquirer]

If Russia sold s400 to china and willing to sell a NATO member turkey , there is no reason to not to sell to India. In fact more s400 can compensate the loss of fgfa deal to Russia.

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It doesn't matter what you think Russia should do!
Russia did try to leverage S-400 deal to push FGFA to India - that's a fact!!
FGFA was potentially a $25 billion deal, that India walked out of.

 

[IndianHawk]

It doesn't matter what you think Russia should do!
Russia did try to leverage S-400 deal to push FGFA to India - that's a fact!!
FGFA was potentially a $25 billion deal, that India walked out of.

Of course they tried to leverage it to save 25 billion USD deal but what if the fgfa was never on table. Russia would still sell it.

There is no fgfa with china or even turkey as of now yet Russia is selling them! It has already earned 15bilion from s400 and will probably earn 20 billion more in next few years.



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[Enquirer]

Of course they tried to leverage it to save 25 billion USD deal but what if the fgfa was never on table. Russia would still sell it.

There is no fgfa with china or even turkey as of now yet Russia is selling them! It has already earned 15bilion from s400 and will probably earn 20 billion more in next few years.



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Dude! Do you even read the entire conversation before you butt in with your posts?
No one ever said that Russia refused to sell S-400 to India. I was only postulating that India wasn't in a commanding position to demand ToT or offsets!
Also, geopolitics is more important in the case of Turkey (the prospect of destabilizing NATO) and China (where S-400 would defend against a potential US attack). Everything is not sold as onions and potatoes!

 

[Immanuel]

And imagine the scale of data generated, once our General population becomes tech savvy... Also, our people would find employment at the numerous data centers... US talks about free flow of data.. because most US data is stored locally, as American companies dominate the tech landscape.. We should ignore the H1B warning.. and pass the data localisation law... Anyway with White nationalism on the rise, the Indian monopoly of H1B would have come to an end anyway... Trump likes white people coming in.. not us brown ones ...

White nationalism???

You sound like a SJW snowflake. Nigga please. Forget the US, myself a proud brown ass Nigga wouldn't want you anywhere near me.

 

[Immanuel]

NATO is an alliance primarily created to counter Russia and proxies. S-400 in NATO backyard via Turkey should be an outrage. Technically they should be ejected out of NATO. They are unwashed Napaki loving Abduls anyways.

 

[Immanuel]

S-400 should have been done 2-3 years back when there was little nonsense. MOD, PMO and other are really incompetent, they waste years on price and other chit chat meanwhile they end up paying more and getting a worse deal.

The S-400 deal as of now has no offset requirements. It a direct buy of 5 Full scale regiments. The initial plan was to have 5 direct imports with another 7 regiments under MII out to a total of 12 full scale regiments but we can kiss that goodbye.