India S-400 Acquisition - News Updates and Discussions

ezsasa

Designated Cynic
Mod
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
31,728
Likes
147,028
Country flag
You are saying that China is strong internally while USA can have lot of rotten apples and traitors who can aid the enemy. That is true. But other than that, USA doctrine is far worse than China. USA derives its sinister ways from UK experience of colonial rule.
Correct... No disagreements here...
China does not do such things.
Wrong... China is good only as a trading partner, cannot be trusted as a strategic partner.

Name five countries that aligned with china and prospered...

With america there are failures, but there are successes too...
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,799
Likes
48,280
Country flag
Correct... No disagreements here...

Wrong... China is good only as a trading partner, cannot be trusted as a strategic partner.

Name five countries that aligned with china and prospered...

With america there are failures, but there are successes too...
Name one country in modern times that has prospered without trade/relations with USA?
 

ezsasa

Designated Cynic
Mod
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
31,728
Likes
147,028
Country flag
Name one country in modern times that has prospered without trade/relations with USA?
Iran to a small degree on their own, but largely because of their oil and had no choice.
no country has prospered without US. even russia does 20 billion $ trade with US.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,799
Likes
48,280
Country flag
Iran to a small degree on their own, but largely because of their oil and had no choice.
no country has prospered without US. even russia does 20 billion $ trade with US.
Iran has survived not prospered. (Thanks to India,Russia ,China). . Under shah of Iran , Iran had good relations with USA and there was a great prosperity, probably best time for Iran in Modern history.
Recently Russia had almost 40 billion trade with USA even now USA is a top ten trading partner. India is nowhere in the top ten.
 

ezsasa

Designated Cynic
Mod
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
31,728
Likes
147,028
Country flag
Iran has survived not prospered. (Thanks to India,Russia ,China). . Under shah of Iran , Iran had good relations with USA and there was a great prosperity, probably best time for Iran in Modern history.
Recently Russia had almost 40 billion trade with USA even now USA is a top ten trading partner. India is nowhere in the top ten.
With russia our trade primarily diamonds that too thanks to surat. With china doing 80 billion $ trade with russia, we won't be seeing any increase in India-russia trade.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,799
Likes
48,280
Country flag
With russia our trade primarily diamonds that too thanks to surat. With china doing 80 billion $ trade with russia, we won't be seeing any increase in India-russia trade.
India US total trade is almost 15-20 times bigger than India-Russia trade. One is a strategic partner other is an economic and strategic partner but it is obvious where recent Indian prosperity is coming from


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Kshithij

DharmaYoddha
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
2,242
Likes
1,961
There are a few quotes which can sum this up

Winners write the history books

Nice guys finish last

All is fair in love and war

By hook or crook

We know historically India has been a good boy ( although world would disagree)
And we all know how it has benefitted India today. India played huge roles in ww1 and ww2
But they have been almost completely erased from history books
India has been retarded child, not good boy. Hitler could not believe how 4 lakh British soldiers controlled 40 crore Indians. Einstein concluded that Indians have genetic defect and could not think more than a quarter of an hour ahead or behind.

Correct... No disagreements here...

Wrong... China is good only as a trading partner, cannot be trusted as a strategic partner.

Name five countries that aligned with china and prospered...

With america there are failures, but there are successes too...
China has helped North Korea a lot. North Korea made great strides in weapons and technology thanks to protection from China.

Also, countries like Vietnam survived due to Chinese help. Don't forget that China was serious decrepit in 1950 due to Japanese invasion. So, Chinese took time till 2000 yo build up properly. Chinese were never a power till 2000

So, it is unfair to expect China to make alliance partners.
Name one country in modern times that has prospered without trade/relations with USA?
Since Petroleum is sold in dollars, it is the Petroleum that makes USA relationship crucial.

Countries like Russia survived and prospered without USA trade. Countries like North Korea has made nuclear bombs and missiles without USA trade. Chinese growth has mostly been independent of USA. China may have traded with USA but that was limited to generic items till 1990s. Even today, China loans USA heavily and is not exactly benefitted by USA. It is more like USA is benefited by China.

But, as I have told before, Petroleum is what causes prosperity. Only 3 regions on earth have larg Petroleum reserves - Russia, USA, Middle east. So, entire prosperity will rely on the petroleum that originates here. Arabs, however have a disadvantage that they don't have water and hence can't grow food or develop manufacturing units. So, Arabs have allied with USA since 1975. Hence, only 2 blocs remain - USA-ARAB and Russia foe oil. But the oil with USA bloc was 70% of all oil in the world and hence USA truimphed.
 

Kshithij

DharmaYoddha
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
2,242
Likes
1,961
US is a Russian top ten trading partner.
The trade surplus of Russia outweighs the trade of USA. Even if USA trade ends, Russia still has surplus.

By the way, USA is a second biggest country in size and third in population. Also, unlike Russia, USA doesn't have ice everywhere. So, naturally, trade with USA will be amongst top 10 with almost all country. Both China and USA by virtue of size, resources and population are very large and invariably appears in top 5 to top 10 list of trade partner of almost all countries
 

ezsasa

Designated Cynic
Mod
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
31,728
Likes
147,028
Country flag
Also, countries like Vietnam survived due to Chinese help. Don't forget that China was serious decrepit in 1950 due to Japanese invasion. So, Chinese took time till 2000 yo build up properly. Chinese were never a power till 2000

So, it is unfair to expect China to make alliance partners.
That is precisely my point, it's too early to tell if china is a reliable partner. They are new at this game.
 

Jumbo

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2018
Messages
113
Likes
62
……………………….........................….But, as I have told before, Petroleum is what causes prosperity. Only 3 regions on earth have larg Petroleum reserves - Russia, USA, Middle east. So, entire prosperity will rely on the petroleum that originates here. Arabs, however have a disadvantage that they don't have water and hence can't grow food or develop manufacturing units. So, Arabs have allied with USA since 1975. Hence, only 2 blocs remain - USA-ARAB and Russia foe oil. But the oil with USA bloc was 70% of all oil in the world and hence USA truimphed.
Sir, Energy is the main key.

Source of energy, petroleum is a source of energy. One can have any other source also.

But who ever controls those sources, can control many other things also.

My two cents though.
 

Kshithij

DharmaYoddha
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
2,242
Likes
1,961
Sir, Energy is the main key.

Source of energy, petroleum is a source of energy. One can have any other source also.

But who ever controls those sources, can control many other things also.

My two cents though.
You are forgetting the petrochemical and other aspects of petroleum. Energy from nuclear source is not enough
 

WolfPack86

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
10,502
Likes
16,946
Country flag
  • IndiaIndian Defence Ministry approved purchase of five battalions, along with 6,000 missiles of the S-400 missile system in December 2015.[190] In October 2015, it was reported that India's Defence Acquisition Committee was set to clear an Indian Air Force proposal for buying 12 S-400 systems.[191][192] India has obtained a contract to acquire S-400 anti-ballistic missile systems from Moscow at a cost of around ₹70,000 crore (US$10 billion) on 2 November 2015 during a visit by then Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar. The deal formally signed when Prime Minister Narendra Modi visited Russia in late December, 2015.[193][needs update] On 22 December 2015 India's Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) approved the deal.
It was reported that Reliance Industries Defence has signed a $6 billion deal with NPO Almaz which included purchase and maintenance of S-400 missile system for Indian Armed Forces.[194] Also it was reported[when?] that price negotiations for five battalions of S-400 system was going on and is about to be concluded in near equal 3–4 months
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-400_missile_system
 

WolfPack86

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
10,502
Likes
16,946
Country flag
Working to get CAATSA waiver for India: Senators
By Lalit K Jha Washington, Jul 13 (PTI) At the request of US Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, US lawmakers are working to get a waiver for India from the punitive Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions ACT or CAATSA, under which sanctions kick off on countries that purchase significant military equipment from Russia.

Though the act targets Russia, it is having its unintended consequences on India, which is planning to buy five S-400 Triumf air defense systems for around USD 4.5 billion from Russia, that US officials say could be considered as a significant military purchase.

Republican Senator Dan Sullivan, a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, yesterday told a Washington audience that Mattis has written a letter in this regard to Senator John McCain, who chairs this powerful committee, to come up with a legislative waiver for India.

On questions during the Annual Leadership Summit of the US India Strategic and Partnership Forum (USISPF) here, Sullivan and Democratic Senator Mark Warner, who is vice chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, said there is a desire among lawmakers to find some way to manage India's past commitment to Russia and its defense relationships with that country
.
Sullivan said he spent a lot of time a day with his colleagues in the House and Senate explaining the importance of getting legislative language right on CAATSA and that realignment of any relationship does not happen overnight.

"One of the biggest proponents of the importance of this relationship is Secretary Mattis. And said, I need this (In his letter to Senator McCain). This is important for our country. This is important for India. This is important for the strategic relationships," Sullivan said.

"I'm hopeful that we're gonna get there on something that will advance our country's interests and advance India's interest and build that trust, Sullivan said as he called for concrete actions in Indo-US defense relationship.

Responding to a similar question at a separate panel, Senator Warner, who is a strong proponent of CAATSA, said the lawmakers are looking into it and does not want India to suffer its unintended consequences.

"There are some with the view that the bill does allow flexibility. House version gives a little more on the waiver side. We are trying to investigate on the Senate side, how we can allow this military partnership to grow but not undermine the principles around CAATSA," Warner said in response to a question.

"It would be easier, I say to my Indian colleagues and friends, if this was simply parts of old aircraft that had been purchased 20 years before rather than a USD4 billion plus air defense system. I do understand as well this was negotiated long before," he said, adding that this long relationship can't be broken overnight.

Warner hoped that Indian colleagues will work with us so that we can continue the expansion of the professional relationship. PTI LKJ DIP DIP
https://www.indiatoday.in/pti-feed/...-waiver-for-india-senators-1284413-2018-07-13
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top