India Pakistan conflict along LoC and counter terrorist operations

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FalconSlayers

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A better shortcut will be to buy more Mig29K.

Acquiring a new aircraft and setting up infrastructure for it is a long process.

Two former IAF techs told me IAF lacks a maintenance culture. There is a perennial shortage of parts and regular maintenance is not as rigorous as it should be. Sometimes it is better to look inwards for the reason of failure.
Yes coz Russian jets don’t crash that badly like our ones, not even other Russian aircraft using countries.
 

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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Define restrained.

What should be our response?

How do we deal with a Paki response?

How much time before 'world powers' step in and read out the riot act to both parties in public and in private? The world has kept propping Pakistan to needle India for a long long time. Will they allow their munna to be totally defanged and rendered useless by India for at least a decade or two?
- Restrained as in NOT salami slicing and taking territory/occupying strategic areas.
- Restrained as in being unable to armtwist the US into banning any US weapons or weapons with US parts being used against us. How can the US let its Quad partner be attacked (there’s a bit of sarcasm here LOL)?
- Restrained as in NOT figuring out ways to neutralize Pork’s nuclear capabilities. Will S400 deter?

i think post Afghanistan pullout, Pakshitstan’ s strategic value ends for the US. I wouldn’t assume the US coming to their major non-nato ally’s rescue.

our response is simple: salami slice and take territory. Or it could be very strategic like blocking commercial traffic to Karachi (Open another front strategy). Or it could be signals like sign the damn Brahmos deal with Philippines ASAP to announce that we have arrived as a major export power.

dealing with paki response: I don’t think there will be any major paki response. They just do things for PR like their operation swift return. They cannot afford even a moderate war as food insecurity will kill thousands of their people due to our blockades, hyper inflation in a food and water starved country, internal wars peaking from TTP, BLA, SRA will effectively break apart porkshitstan. The only thing they will do is shout that they will go nuclear quickly. This is where we need a deterrent like S400 or some other way to degrade their launch capabilities.

world powers are always on the side of countries that make money for them. We are doing that and will be doing that. For formality sake, countries will advise restraint but secretly encourage us to wipe off the menace called Pakshitstan. France did not even ask us to exercise restraint after pulwama and directly told pakis that you sent in terrorist, so you suffer consequences.
 

Cheran

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Well duh, .5 is a reality. There are always actual grievances. However the same can be hijacked by vested interests. Role of security establishment is to always be one step ahead. Deal with the situation appropriately. It is a no brainer to think that the situation will not be utilized by Khalistanis/ISI.


From above report -

"December 3 ko meeting hai, agar hal koi hua toh thik hai nahin toh…aap jaante nahin…hamare shaheed Udham Singh ne goro ko Canada me jake thoka…Indira thok di…Modi ki chhati mein…(If we can hit the whites in Canada, Delhi is nothing. We had bumped off Indira. A similar fate awaits PM Modi if the talks that are scheduled to happen on December 3 do not yield the desired results),” a protester threatened while talking to media. "

 

Tridev123

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Sad to see that the discussion on Indian casualties along the LoC is taking a political turn with abuses being hurled at many. Looks like it has been divided into pro Modi and anti Modi.

Can't we debate issues on merit. It does not matter who is in power.

Pakistan has taken a conscious decision to escalate at this point of time knowing fully well there will be repurcussions. Why?.

One side suddenly going on the offensive is not a sign of strength.
We can also suddenly fire dozens of Pinaka rockets into Lahore as it is quite close to the border. Hundreds of Pakistanis would die.

I hope the death of our soldiers doesn't turn into a political slugfest.

Our forces will retaliate. Give them some time to plan.
 

Echelon Four

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Sad to see that the discussion on Indian casualties along the LoC is taking a political turn with abuses being hurled at many. Looks like it has been divided into pro Modi and anti Modi.

Can't we debate issues on merit. It does not matter who is in power.

Pakistan has taken a conscious decision to escalate at this point of time knowing fully well there will be repurcussions. Why?.

One side suddenly going on the offensive is not a sign of strength.
We can also suddenly fire dozens of Pinaka rockets into Lahore as it is quite close to the border. Hundreds of Pakistanis would die.

I hope the death of our soldiers doesn't turn into a political slugfest.

Our forces will retaliate. Give them some time to plan.

Forces will retaliate. ok

then after a week 2-3 more will be killed. we will again retaliate.

and the saga continues.

what are we doing to put a full stop on it? thick skulled neta & janta deserves this humiliation.
 

Illusive

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No just got intel.

Delhi will fall any minute. Kerala and North East will declare independence. Pakistan will take kashmir. Ladakh and AP will go to China.

:( India has become END_ia .
Anyone from past remember AJTR.....porki disguised as Indian. Well lets just say pakis have way too much time on their hands to be disguising as Indians for years and spreading panic.
 

Rassil Krishnan

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You can criticize as much as you can its ur opinion they have done some works better than UPA at least. Honestly even i don't like the unsatisfactory reaction of govt but i wouldn't say they are all theatric.
The guys who criticize should also recommend someone waiting in the wings that they think will perform better.

Even if the criticism is correct,we must not point it out loudly if there is no better replacement as it wasting our time and post space.

Most of these cases ,soldiers will be lost for more concrete steps on the ground and don't expect no loss perfect runs.i don't understand why people get so emotional for losses of one or two soldiers everytime.do you think you will lose none when pok is retaken.you will lose in the hundreds.if you have noticed I am very stoic when it comes to these casualty news reports as you must not expect results instantly.many people go into meltdown for few soldiers which I cannot understand.
 

Echelon Four

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You seem to have strong opinions about taking back PoK, You don't seem to be having a problem 5000-10000 casualties (your words).

Your opinions should be based on some foundation literature by some military scholars, is it not?

I post my own musings.... & bcoz am not infected with the secular & democratic virus.... the thought process of the retd generals repel me.

I live in an area with loads of veterans(GD bakshi types)... I like their opinions.
 

Tridev123

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Forces will retaliate. ok

then after a week 2-3 more will be killed. we will again retaliate.

and the saga continues.

what are we doing to put a full stop on it? thick skulled neta & janta deserves this humiliation.
I understand your anger.
Yes, a permanent solution should also be considered.

Probably retaking the whole of POK and Gilgit Baltistan.
After planning it meticulously.

Some people may raise the nuclear bogey.
Pakistani nuclear weapons can be neutralised if both the US and India act in cohesion. India may not be able to do it alone. Remember not even one nuclear bomb should remain in Pakistan. Also the stockpile of fissile material, both enriched uranium and plutonium should be confiscated. The US can try to do it alone but I doubt whether they will be 100% successful.

Pakistan does not violate the border or send terrorists in numbers from the Pak Punjab border because they know that in the resulting shooting match Pak Punjabis would die and infrastructure in Pak Punjab will be destroyed.

Almost 100% of the firing happens on the J & K border. Because Kashmiris are expendable. If they no longer have any part of Kashmir or GB I guess they will seek peace.
 

ezsasa

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I post my own musings.... & bcoz am not infected with the secular & democratic virus.... the thought process of the retd generals repel me.

I live in an area with loads of veterans(GD bakshi types)... I like their opinions.
You may have your musings, but be considerate when talking about other people'e lives even more so when talking about own soldiers and citizens. lives are not just numbers, there are families attached to it. loose talk about loosing 5000-10000 lives does not feel right. i have never even heard of retired generals speak that way.

Let's not demean the value of human lives especially those who are not your enemies, just to earn some street cred on a internet forum.
 

Echelon Four

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You may have your musings, but be considerate when talking about other people'e lives even more so when talking about own soldiers and citizens. lives are not just numbers, there are families attached to it. loose talk about loosing 5000-10000 lives does not feel right. i have never even heard of retired generals speak that way.

Let's not demean the value of human lives especially those who are not your enemies, just to earn some street cred on a internet forum.
Ok... those 5 to 10 thousand & countless more will anyways die if this cancer is not checked... death by a thousand cuts will proceed to become death by a million cuts... a slow and painful one.

This is the problem with hindu mentality... we are dealing with savages while being the good boy.

I am not asking anyone to like my posts... please don't do... consider me a nuisance nameless troll. Just speaking my heart out.
 

IndianYonko

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Loss of lives is very disturbing but we won’t escalate , if at all, until DDC elections are over. That would be logical but then again these days I struggle to find any logic in what the government is doing. Apparently they and the Army seem to be comfortable if soldiers die in 1s and 2s. Something is holding us back like it restrained us after Pulwama counterstrikes by paf. is there a secret longer term strategy involving reform, closing capacity gaps, closing technology gaps etc.
‘Clearly we know that the porki are cowards, especially after that “mathe pe paseena” statement. Yet we are restrained in response. Very hard to understand GoI’s strategy here.
I fear, if these 1s and 2s would be new normal. Clear symptom of bad opposition, always asks wrong question and keeps shooting in its own foot. These congis should have atleast "tried" to become good opposition.

apart from that.

But, I have one question. Why this forum always goes in meltdown everytime something wrong happens?
My 2 cent, we cannot be either too pro-active or pre-emptive; otherwise we can get trapped, this is some real tricky situation we are in now, when both of our neighbors are openly supporting each other in landing a punch on us. Yes, we will incur some losses that is inevitable, but should be pressing hard to reducing these numbers. I really hope Doval not only takes fight onto their grounds but also eliminate them from here.

We are in really some tricky situation but we are more than capable of handling it, we just need some quality decision making. And something is to be done about these 0.5 front and I'm more scared from them than other 2 since they are deeply rooted in our own system.


Sorry for typos; writing on phone.
 

Trololo

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The MiG-29K is a very different beast. Equipped with a host of new weapons and sensors, the jet is considered among the most capable of its generation, a fighter that could potentially threaten several contemporary Western fighters including newer variants of the F-15 or F-16.

By the way, the Russian Navy was not the first to deploy the advanced MiG-29K. It was the Indian Navy a few years ago. Along with the AC Vikramaditya, the Indian Navy had received the MiG-29K as part of a package deal.

According to Rear Admiral William D. Byrne, Jr., the Commander of Carrier Strike Group 11 which operates around the USS Nimitz, during a recent exercise said that the MiG-29s that were flying off the Vikramaditya and the FA-18 Super Hornets flying off Nimitz got up in the air and got to do some excellent and very impressive dogfighting. In a nutshell, the MiG 29K can give the Super Hornets a run for their money.
If you look deeply at the IN's capability to wage war with its aerial assets in this day and age, it is dismal. The capability in 1971 was far better in comparison with respect to those times. This is principally because the Navy lacks precision strike power from its carrier borne aircraft and doesn't have growler type aircrafts for dedicated EW roles. Also lacks synergy with IAF as far as integration with IAF's own battlefield management systems, AWACS, EW are concerned. This is a worry.
Also, buying Rafales and Hornets for our STOBARs is not worth it because they will remain under utilised because of STOBAR limitations. The 29K doesn't face this problem to that extent, and can always be topped up by a loitering buddy refueler immediately upon takeoff to top up the fuel load. The 29K is also very different from the rest of the Fulcrum family.

The 29K gives us an opportunity to MKIze it with all avionics that will go into the MWF and those that are there in the UPG and are planned for the MKI upgrade. We must upgrade it to the hilt. Few items that come to mind are:

1> D-29 EW suite with even more improvements.
2> MWFs panoramic glass cockpit.
3> MWFs mission computer.
4> BaE Lite HUD.
5> New generation radio altimeter and Thales highly accurate navigation system (similar to the M2K or Rafale) for easily flying to target area at low altitude, thereby reducing pilot workload. MWF will have some variant of this as well.
6> Vehicle health and stores management system like MWF.
7> Uttam AESA radar. Worst case Elta 2052.
8> New radome eliminating the pitot.
9> All aspect DRDO dual colour MAWS.
10> DRDO Digital RWR.
11> DRDO/BEL/Saankhya Labs SDR. Alternatively Rafael BNET.
12> BEL Datalink 2. This is a very vital component.
13> Litening 4 pod (I believe there are no targeting pods on the 29K)
14> Astra Mk1 (integration in progress).
15> Astra Mk2
16> Astra Mk3 SFDR
17> A towed decoy
18> Paveway kit
19> Spice kit
20> Garudaa kit
21> Garuthmaa kit
22> DRDO SAAW
23> Brahmos NG air launched variant
24> Rudram-1 A2G anti radiation missile
25> Rudram-2 A2A awacs killer
26> Rudram-3 A2G long range cruise missile (SCALP equivalent)
27> SANT for anti tank CAS operations (similar to Brimstone on Typhoon)
28> DRDO IRST for MWF.

If you observe carefully, all the above are present in aircrafts like Rafale and Hornet, but in their western avatars. When we have most of these solutions available and in progress domestically, then why not use them? Its not necessary that the upgrades happen all at once. They can happen in phases. Such an upgrade will give the naval air arm immense strike power. And it handsomely complements the 29Ks natural A2A agility. And these aircraft will be better than any F-16 Blk 52 or even J10C that the Pakis or Chinks can throw at us.

Also, naval air arm + IAF needs deeper synergy. IAF has lot of exp maintaining Fulcrums. That needs to be leveraged bigtime. Also, naval aircrafts need to be integrated within IAF's battle management system. That way when a carrier is in refit the MiGs can be sent to forward air bases. Such moves will also familiarise the pilots to fly in these conditions as well, and can be useful if say the VKD is in the dry dock during wartime. Fleet air arm also needs to do a lot more exercises involving deep strikes and precision strikes. I feel they lack terribly here.

Also I hope the missing pilot is found safe and sound, and the MiG 29Ks serve us well.
 

ezsasa

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Ok... those 5 to 10 thousand & countless more will anyways die if this cancer is not checked... death by a thousand cuts will proceed to become death by a million cuts... a slow and painful one.

This is the problem with hindu mentality... we are dealing with savages while being the good boy.

I am not asking anyone to like my posts... please don't do... consider me a nuisance nameless troll. Just speaking my heart out.
There are professionals to take care of the planning and execution when the time comes, your so called Hindu mentality snide is of no relevance here.

You are on notice, no more of these Hindu baniya taunts...
 
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