India Pakistan conflict along LoC and counter terrorist operations

[WARREN SS]

Soldiers,Generals are used to death of soldiers. It might sound harsh but to the top leaders unless 50-60 soldiers die its usual thing. And their is the issue of politics as well.

What do you think military is doing
Indian army bombing then everyday
And night just yesterday
Indian envoy summoned for CFV.

In last 2-3 years CFV death ratio was down due to Surgical strikes and Air strikes

But it was common
During UPA era upto 2016 surgical strikes.

Seems porkies are now hopeless and want limited aggressive action.

Seeing average death of 70-80 every year on loc was common during UPA

You are new to DFI i guess

 

[Shashank Nayak]

No need to infantilize farmers.. especially Punjab farmers since they had a very good deal all these years with central government allocating tons of money to purchase crops on MSP into central graneries. Other state farmers dont have a high dependence on MSP purchases.. Punjab farmers genuinely feel that the good days are coming to an end.. Thats why the protests..

 

[N4tsula67]

Anyone following the farmer's protest? This can spiral out of control real quick. Reports are that around > 50k farmers with vehicles can reach Delhi for protest.

The majority of them are Sikh and there were also some reports of Khalistani factions among them. If that happens, JeM/Khalistani terrorists can take advantage of the crowd to mount an attack on HVTs like Parliament and political residences.

50k angry crowd is too tough to manage and we may need to call out Army in that case. Any police brutality on the protestors will be used in advantage to fuel Khalistani seperatism.

0.5 front

 

[ezsasa]

Deaths do not matter, the hit to his image among supporters does.
Unless opposition through their proxies try to show him as a weak coward through the media, he is not motivated to respond.

The fear of a hit to his strongman image among supporters is what breaks the mayajaal of “escalation” and “long war if you escalate” and “hit to economy” etc lies put by babooze into his ears.

Just a thought.

Going by the reactions , people might say they want the security establishment to shift to a offensive doctrine from a defensive doctrine, but in reality people don’t seem to be ready for the consequences that follow a offensive doctrine.

consequences of a offensive doctrine are more bloody, more brutal, more costly, now with hybrid warfare even more confusing.

 

[shade]

Just a thought.

Going by the reactions , people might say they want the security establishment to shift to a offensive doctrine from a defensive doctrine, but in reality people don’t seem to be ready for the consequences that follow a offensive doctrine.

Yes the bolded seems to be one of the factors staying GoI’s hands on going on the offense.
However this is just a perception, you cannot accurately predict public reaction at the start of “offensive activities” and during these offensive activities if they continue for a longer duration.

 

[ezsasa]

Yes the bolded seems to be one of the factors staying GoI’s hands on going on the offense.
However this is just a perception, you cannot accurately predict public reaction at the start of “offensive activities” and during these offensive activities if they continue for a longer duration.

when a big country like ours adopts a offensive doctrine, it would not just be fighting China , pak and .5 within but also large anti-war global industry designed to insult and taunt regular Indians when their favourite countries get attacked.
At this point in time , are people ready to take insults and taunts on behalf of the security establishment!!!

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Loss of lives is very disturbing but we won’t escalate , if at all, until DDC elections are over. That would be logical but then again these days I struggle to find any logic in what the government is doing. Apparently they and the Army seem to be comfortable if soldiers die in 1s and 2s. Something is holding us back like it restrained us after Pulwama counterstrikes by paf. is there a secret longer term strategy involving reform, closing capacity gaps, closing technology gaps etc.
‘Clearly we know that the porki are cowards, especially after that “mathe pe paseena” statement. Yet we are restrained in response. Very hard to understand GoI’s strategy here.

 

[Echelon Four]

One time Surgical strikes or revenge strikes or Op Ginger beheadings won't change anything

More & More number of Talented(Cream) Youth are looking away from Armed forces(career option)... & main reason behind this is overall degradation of our capabilities, posture & willpower.

We are losing... there can't be any excuses.

"In past 31 yrs... since the Cross border terrorism started... Have we taken any decisive action to put a full stop on it?"

Thousands of our security forces have been KIA.

Western powers whom our leaders try to please all the time are also getting fed up & will give up sooner if we don't act decisively.

Take POK... yes there will be 5000-10000 casualties... but it will be done...

Stop this endless discussion of escalation ladder, Nuclear overhang blah blah... Act while you can... Window is closing fast... Cancer can't be cured after a particular stage.

 

[another_armchair]

Loss of lives is very disturbing but we won’t escalate , if at all, until DDC elections are over. That would be logical but then again these days I struggle to find any logic in what the government is doing. Apparently they and the Army seem to be comfortable if soldiers die in 1s and 2s. Something is holding us back like it restrained us after Pulwama counterstrikes by IAF. is there a secret longer term strategy involving reform, closing capacity gaps, closing technology gaps etc.
‘Clearly we know that the porki are cowards, especially after that “mathe pe paseena” statement. Yet we are restrained in response. Very hard to understand GoI’s strategy here.

Define restrained.

What should be our response?

How do we deal with a Paki response?

How much time before 'world powers' step in and read out the riot act to both parties in public and in private? The world has kept propping Pakistan to needle India for a long long time. Will they allow their munna to be totally defanged and rendered useless by India for at least a decade or two?

 

[another_armchair]

One time Surgical strikes or revenge strikes or Op Ginger beheadings won't change anything

More & More number of Talented(Cream) Youth are looking away from Armed forces(career option)... & main reason behind this is overall degradation of our capabilities, posture & willpower.

We are losing... there can't be any excuses.

"In past 31 yrs... since the Cross border terrorism started... Have we taken any decisive action to put a full stop on it?"

Thousands of our security forces have been KIA.

Western powers whom our leaders try to please all the time are also getting fed up & will give up sooner if we don't act decisively.

Take POK... yes there will be 5000-10000 casualties... but it will be done...

Stop this endless discussion of escalation ladder, Nuclear overhang blah blah... Act while you can... Window is closing fast... Cancer can't be cured after a particular stage.

On paper, PoK has a population of 44 lakh people. How do we kick them out?

Can't kill them all without the world ganging up and terming us a 'fascist' state, can we?

 

[Echelon Four]

On paper, PoK has a population of 44 lakh people. How do we kick them out?

Can't kill them all without the world ganging up and terming us a 'fascist' state, can we?

Don't take the 3-4 population centres that are in depth & house 90% of that population. Intrude 10-20km for starters & hold.

 

[another_armchair]

Kadi Ninda has given the mandate to forces.

What you are witnessing is our action and Paki reaction.

We have not even gone public about our action in PoK. Does that mean there is greater punishment for the Pakis in store?

As we have initiated hostilities with Pakistan, does it mean we have made our first move already? Are we already at war? The signs seem obvious.

The world kept quiet when Azerbaijan invaded Armenia and grabbed territory citing historical claims over it. That makes invasion and capture of PoK a very legitimate cause.

Paki's are using Arty. There will be casualties on our side. We have time between now and Biden's oath taking ceremony to do the needful. Kaam chalu hai.. bas China ka dekhna padega.

 

[Manoj345]

Kadi Ninda has given the mandate to forces.

What you are witnessing is our action and Paki reaction.

We have not even gone public about our action in PoK. Does that mean greater punishment for the Pakis in store?

As we have initiated hostilities with Pakistan, does it mean we have made our first move already? Are we already at war? The signs seem obvious.

All indications in form of political statements, meetings with the P5 diplomats and mounting casualties indicate some kind of low intensity kinetic action going on. Let's wait and watch.

 

[Mikel]

Kadi Ninda has given the mandate to forces.

What you are witnessing is our action and Paki reaction.

We have not even gone public about our action in PoK. Does that mean there is greater punishment for the Pakis in store?

As we have initiated hostilities with Pakistan, does it mean we have made our first move already? Are we already at war? The signs seem obvious.

People with all due respect need to get this idea of unilateral casualties out of their head. It's not like we fire our guns and artilleries and kill a bunch of them and then stop and then they get a chance to fire and kill. It's a crossfire. If 2 of ours are killed be assured they are suffering twice as much cause our artilleries are far superior to theirs.

 

[another_armchair]

People with all due respect need to get this idea of unilateral casualties out of their head. It's not like we fire our guns and artilleries and kill a bunch of them and then stop and then they get a chance to fire and kill. It's a crossfire. If 2 of ours are killed be assured they are suffering twice as much cause our artilleries are far superior to theirs.

India vs Pak ratio is usually 1:6 in small arms fire, 1:10-15 when heavy asla is in use.

 

[another_armchair]

All indications in form of political statements, meetings with the P5 diplomats and mounting casualties indicate some kind of low intensity kinetic action going on. Let's wait and watch.

Spot on, Sir.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

Just a thought.

Going by the reactions , people might say they want the security establishment to shift to a offensive doctrine from a defensive doctrine, but in reality people don’t seem to be ready for the consequences that follow a offensive doctrine.

consequences of a offensive doctrine are more bloody, more brutal, more costly, now with hybrid warfare even more confusing.

Exactly. we have people here. going all haywire at the news of a couple of soldiers deaths.. we would need a metre thick skin, if we moved to an offensive doctrine. Since, even if we capture gilgit, the terror attacks will increase manifold. Then what.. I am fine.. with 30 IA dead in a day. But, many people would start shouting that to stem the bleeding conquering POK is not enough, we must go to Islamabad..

 

[yourgodisweak]

The only way to stop this daily blood bath is war. No surgical strikes are not going to stop these daily disasters. Do you think India will go to war? We will not. Be prepared to face this daily news about our jawans, this is sad but that is what the new normal going to be.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

All this BABA talk of 0.5 front farmer protests is bull.. In the middle of Pandemic peak, when economy was almost shutterred and cratered, and an opportunistic Chink invaded. the Army and gov. Mobilized at great speed to meet the challenge. Our GDP now is at 90 percent of pre pandemic level. . farmer protests are nothing.. The Indian security state is a very formidable beast that has been through far more trying times, even when the resources available to it were only a fraction of what we have now..

 

[ezsasa]

One time Surgical strikes or revenge strikes or Op Ginger beheadings won't change anything

More & More number of Talented(Cream) Youth are looking away from Armed forces(career option)... & main reason behind this is overall degradation of our capabilities, posture & willpower.

We are losing... there can't be any excuses.

"In past 31 yrs... since the Cross border terrorism started... Have we taken any decisive action to put a full stop on it?"

Thousands of our security forces have been KIA.

Western powers whom our leaders try to please all the time are also getting fed up & will give up sooner if we don't act decisively.

Take POK... yes there will be 5000-10000 casualties... but it will be done...

Stop this endless discussion of escalation ladder, Nuclear overhang blah blah... Act while you can... Window is closing fast... Cancer can't be cured after a particular stage.

post here 10 literary works by different eminent military scholars which detail the hypothetical strategy to take over PoK.