India Pakistan conflict along LoC and counter terrorist operations

[Srinivas_K]

Really interesting impact if you notice the round hole and no visible damage to the fan, tubelight or glass window panes.

Doesn't look like a mortar round as being speculated.

Am just curious about the makeup of the explosive. Looks more of the penetrating kind.

Probably a dry run before a swarm hits stationary aircraft, helis on the tarmac.

This poses a very serious challenge while Babudom sits in Delhi with a heap of catalogues wondering which deal will fetch the highest commission.

Two can play this game, they should have thought about it.

 

[Srinivas_K]

Indian Army demonstrated swarm drone technology, with 50 km range, time to make it battle proven.

These drones from terrorists also help us develop and test counter drone technologies.

 

[iNorthernerOn9]

Anyone here thinks there will be any military reponse , cross border raid , or shelling or whatever ?

i am guessing it will be just kadi ninda ™ , MEA giving out a useless press release calling for "peace and tranquality" ™ at the LOC.

If this isnt weeded out now , they will be doing saudi-refinery style hits on us next.

Bhatinda, Barmer & Jamnagar... all 3 are not very far from border.

Pakistan has been making these sub conventional hits on us for more than 3 decades now bcoz its visible to even the blind person that our conventional deterrence has eroded. In the conventional domain Pakistan has quantitative edge on India in many segments like: AWACS, SELF PROPELLED HOWITZERS, LATEST ANTI AIRCRAFT GUNS, VSHORADS.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

This much I will say:
1. our military response strategy has never made any sense to me. It does not seem to have any well laid out strategy/end goal behind it. We just seem to procure arms in a weird way - for example what is the use of having SSBNs with nukes if the enemy is picking off of our soldiers anyways. There just doesn’t seem to be any deterrence value. We are just not able to enforce total domination/deterrence. Now we are going to get carried away with all these theater commands. Will the theater commands get us absolute domination over an armed forces that spends 1/10th of what we do, and is effectively under economic sanctions due to FATF etc? Or, are we just doing so because PLA is setup that way?

2. CDS Rawat just said two days ago that ceasefire does not just mean no firing at borders, it also means no arms drop using drones or smuggling in heroine to finance terror operations. So this effectively means the ceasefire is broken. Yet I see news articles saying that ceasefire is holding. Shouldn’t the military plainly announce that ceasefire has been broken?

3. One thing I miss is the absence of a strong opposition in the Parliament. No one is questioning this government about the not-so-great performance during Feb 26/27 2020 and the inability to enforce total domination. Plus the citizens are absolutely unable to get the government to spell out what exactly is the security strategy for the country including assymetric warfare methods. Maybe some parliamentary panels are discussing such sensitive issues behind closed doors.

4. Why is the government forcing the citizens to have low expectations on retaliation threshold (Will only do something if significant casualties happen)? Is it the size of our population where foot soldiers are expendable?


5. Our values as a nation is unclear: Why wasn’t any homage paid on the 1 year anniversary of Galwan clashes? And even stranger, is why hasn’t the opposition pressured the government to pay homage to the Galway brave heart?

6. Why do we trumpet so much our access to western technology fully knowing that these come with all sorts of strings attached and that top powers are not going to respect India’s military capabilities if it is built mostly on foreign technology and is deployed/used in a way that causes embarrassment to the nation? For instance, why do we say things like “ if only we had Rafales…”? Does this mean we didn’t have an answer to the F-16s for decades or wrongly strategized that the US would prevent PAF from using the F-16s? Either way, it shows a very high level of lack of strategizing, planning, writing up a response strategy, anticipating enemy’s moves etc.

Many things in our military strategy don’t make sense to me anymore, especially our response strategy - I have thought about it from all angles and I just cannot understand it at all as to why we deliberately come across as incompetent in many military areas, especially for a country that seeks a seat at the big table like UNSC. We cannot fool the world into making our way into these big boys clubs. We have to be truly powerful and demonstrate that we have the capability to effectively dominate against weaker nations. Forget about the Quad going anywhere if we continue to display such military weakness.

 

[Niks_12]

Of course, the size of the drone was chosen purposefully so that impact was low and to keep it below the threshold of retaliation. The other advantage to it - the Porkies can always attribute the DJIs (or whatever Chinese crap they were) to Kashmiri Freedom Fighters - aka Terrorists Scumbags.

 

[Niks_12]

The other thing to note here is that the Porkies have been needling and probing with drones for quite sometime now. You will hear news here and there that a drone was sighted in this sector or that. Now you know what their strategy looks like -
1) Use cheap drones - losses really don't dent their pockets
2) Probe the defenses and find weaknesses
3) Take out Strategic assets if possible (at a negligible cost)
4) If caught, absolve themselves of any blame as any tom, dick and harry can operate such drones
5) Finally perfect the strategy, know the enemies weaknesses and in case of a broader conflict, use it to cause devastation at low or no cost

 

[iNorthernerOn9]

Of course, the size of the drone was chosen purposefully so that impact was low and to keep it below the threshold of retaliation. The other advantage to it - the Porkies can always attribute the DJIs (or whatever Chinese crap they were) to Kashmiri Freedom Fighters - aka Terrorists Scumbags.

Not just the size of drone... why & for how long will we ignore this dangerous trend that a huge percentage of our population is branding attacks on our own military as false flag?

Tomorrow in case of a conflict... there will be huge anti war demonstrations & opposition elements will be happy to create anarchy & make us lose the conflict.

How this thinking invaded Indian minds? it's very dangerous trend... A population brainwashed to doubt own military & government.

This would lead to a situation where we get attacked & won't be allowed to respond bcoz of negative perception in population.

leftism cancer hai.

 

[indiatester]

I am not countering you but telling the other side of the story.

Wide area em jamming if would block the mobile network also then good luck as,

1. Jammu airport has a civilian enclave
2. People and colonies nearby

Both of the above will approach court.

Agreed.
I started out with a limited point that there are some simple solutions
We should ofcourse leave them for those who are paid to solve them.
But, when they say, oh... we can't do it because of procurement issues etc etc... then

 

[ladder]

Two can play this game, they should have thought about it.

Did they think about before starting a series of sniping at LoC?
Now what's happening?
I too thought they wouldn't start this thing but we must remember it's Pakistan we are talking about.

 

[Marliii]

 

[hawwk]

What's HAS?

 

[Apollo]

This much I will say:
1. our military response strategy has never made any sense to me. It does not seem to have any well laid out strategy/end goal behind it. We just seem to procure arms in a weird way - for example what is the use of having SSBNs with nukes if the enemy is picking off of our soldiers anyways. There just doesn’t seem to be any deterrence value. We are just not able to enforce total domination/deterrence. Now we are going to get carried away with all these theater commands. Will the theater commands get us absolute domination over an armed forces that spends 1/10th of what we do, and is effectively under economic sanctions due to FATF etc? Or, are we just doing so because PLA is setup that way?

2. CDS Rawat just said two days ago that ceasefire does not just mean no firing at borders, it also means no arms drop using drones or smuggling in heroine to finance terror operations. So this effectively means the ceasefire is broken. Yet I see news articles saying that ceasefire is holding. Shouldn’t the military plainly announce that ceasefire has been broken?

3. One thing I miss is the absence of a strong opposition in the Parliament. No one is questioning this government about the not-so-great performance during Feb 26/27 2020 and the inability to enforce total domination. Plus the citizens are absolutely unable to get the government to spell out what exactly is the security strategy for the country including assymetric warfare methods. Maybe some parliamentary panels are discussing such sensitive issues behind closed doors.

4. Why is the government forcing the citizens to have low expectations on retaliation threshold (Will only do something if significant casualties happen)? Is it the size of our population where foot soldiers are expendable?


5. Our values as a nation is unclear: Why wasn’t any homage paid on the 1 year anniversary of Galwan clashes? And even stranger, is why hasn’t the opposition pressured the government to pay homage to the Galway brave heart?

6. Why do we trumpet so much our access to western technology fully knowing that these come with all sorts of strings attached and that top powers are not going to respect India’s military capabilities if it is built mostly on foreign technology and is deployed/used in a way that causes embarrassment to the nation? For instance, why do we say things like “ if only we had Rafales…”? Does this mean we didn’t have an answer to the F-16s for decades or wrongly strategized that the US would prevent PAF from using the F-16s? Either way, it shows a very high level of lack of strategizing, planning, writing up a response strategy, anticipating enemy’s moves etc.

Many things in our military strategy don’t make sense to me anymore, especially our response strategy - I have thought about it from all angles and I just cannot understand it at all as to why we deliberately come across as incompetent in many military areas, especially for a country that seeks a seat at the big table like UNSC. We cannot fool the world into making our way into these big boys clubs. We have to be truly powerful and demonstrate that we have the capability to effectively dominate against weaker nations. Forget about the Quad going anywhere if we continue to display such military weakness.

If we had fired 10 rockets on the first day we witnessed a quadcopter dropping weapons on our border then this subconventional drone culture wud not have gone this far. Sadly our military leadership do not have the authority to deliver a quick counter attack, they rely too much on political leadership signal. Political babus irrespective of the situation gives nod for a counter attack only if it adds a political mileage. Feb 26 was just one fine example, notations security is not a big deal.

 

[indiatester]

Of course, the size of the drone was chosen purposefully so that impact was low and to keep it below the threshold of retaliation. The other advantage to it - the Porkies can always attribute the DJIs (or whatever Chinese crap they were) to Kashmiri Freedom Fighters - aka Terrorists Scumbags.

Retaliation threshold is what our forces must decide.
Its in their interest to take even small incidents seriously and put the onus of keeping attacks off India a requirement for safety in paki land.
Ideally, any retaliation should have already happened visibly by now to send an effective message. If, our forces don't have such capabilities, then our leadership should take a pay cut.

 

[Tactical Doge]

Don't mind me just posting my fav image on 1000th page of this amazing thread.

View attachment 96928

Saala meme chor

 

[SUPERPOWER]

Anyone here thinks there will be any military reponse , cross border raid , or shelling or whatever ?

i am guessing it will be just kadi ninda ™ , MEA giving out a useless press release calling for "peace and tranquality" ™ at the LOC.

If this isnt weeded out now , they will be doing saudi-refinery style hits on us next.

Kadi ninda :genral saab koi mara ??..nahi Sir do injured hue voh to abhi has kehl rahe hai hospital main..Kadi Ninda: jaan maal ka nuksan?...purani building thi sir aise bhi thodke naya bana tha...Kadi Ninda : ha ha ha ha.. chalo chay biscuit hojaye saath main voh nai vaali fruit cake bhi le aana..

 

[DivineHeretic]

Did they think about before starting a series of sniping at LoC?
Now what's happening?
I too thought they wouldn't start this thing but we must remember it's Pakistan we are talking about.

Pakistan army (there are no terrorists or jihadis, only Pakistani army) has developed a decision matrix with possible Indian responses based on historical Indian short term and long term reaction and essentially have bet on the predictability and structural weakness of the Indian response escalation and follow up matrix.

Historically, every time there has been a peace process or a peace initiative, the government at the center orders the IA and any other entities to "go slow", essentially curtailing up Indian army's freedom to respond. be it 1995-96 under IK Gujral, 1999 under Vajpayee, 2003-04 under Vajpayee, 2006-08 under Manmohan Singh, 2013-14 under Manmohan Singh, 2015-2016 under Modi, orders always go out from PMO and CCS to limit retaliation to ostensibly prevent a derailment of talks. PA is fully aware of this, and has always positioned itself to take maximum advantage of the political pressure on IA to inflict severe losses without actually crossing red lines.

Next, even if the decision matrix fails and there is an escalation, PA has over 30 years experienced that all it is required to do to end the Indian retaliation is have a call at DGMO level and request a ceasefire or a return to ceasefire and profess its good intentions, and then lie low for a couple of days to a week. Think about the sniping of IA troops by PA. As soon as the counter sniping of IA got too heavy for PA to handle, they requested IA to stop sniping duels on both sides. And in face of disbelief, IA agreed. Invariably Indian response dies down, and PA gets away scott free (yeah, the heads we bring back are nothing more than meaningless trash for PA, they couldn't care less about their men. Ghairat and PA's perception amongst its population is the only factor for PA).

Its bewildering to see the IA fall for the same ruse again and again and again. As they say, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Indian army and the political establishment has over 30 years behaved in a way that incentivizes PA to attack IA without any major consequences. What did IA believe the conditioning of IA's behavior on PA would have been? Essentially you have allowed PA to hit you with impunity. Now suffer the consequence.

 

[Tactical Doge]

What's HAS?

Hardened Aircraft Shelter
Protection against penetration bombs, cluster munitions, I also read somewhere that in case of an emergency, the blast doors can be set up such that it can only be opened from the inside

 

[Kumata]

Hardened Aircraft Shelter
Protection against penetration bombs, cluster munitions, I also read somewhere that in case of an emergency, the blast doors can be set up such that it can only be opened from the inside

Why it's a news that we have re enforced doors on them. I mean we r investing billions of dollars in buying planes and are thinking of saving few crores in INR on doors or shelters

 

[Tactical Doge]

Why it's a news that we have re enforced doors on them. I mean we r investing billions of dollars in buying planes and are thinking of saving few crores in INR on doors or shelters

They cost ~50Crores, so for all of the aircrafts is not a economically feasible choice........ atleast in the short run
The Chinese already have them in Tibet against any IAF misadventures if it have to occur
We also must have them atleast in the frontier regions, Jammu and Punjab for example..... Doesn't make sense to provide HAS for all AFS

 

[Ayushraj]

This exercise is mostly focused on Russian navy
But their is secret understanding between mossad and ISI.
Porki never supported Hezbollah and hamas (except few porki politician saying this to gain publicity) and Israel also never targets porkistan.
Their was collaboration between mossad and ISI during Afghanistan jihad.on other side Israel also prepared to attack porkistan nuclear facilities through India but our pm moraji desai refused.
In past Even porkistan never gives nuclear technology to israels enemy Saudi Arabia in past
Intelligence and alliance are bit complicated subject India is member of quad but still US never expatriate David Headly