India Pakistan conflict along IB and LoC (July 2021)

Mantospace

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Is it possible for them to have tunnels that open up at the other side of the border.

We have been arresting OGW's but supply of ammunition and intel seems to suggest they might have cross border informants.

Media blackout is a good think IMO. We don't want an another 26/11 were our channels are broadcasting live info which in turn was being used by pakistani handlers.
yeah it seems on other side there is tunnel. Is it necessary to do operation in hasty way. Why cant we block them from both side.
 

Mantospace

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When this entire operation gets done with...there will be lots of questions for the Army to answer.
Right now its WTF'ery all over this forum and SM.
Only hoping that all terrorists and hideouts are destroyed quickly...before we lose more men.
Issue hw would army ensure next time this will not happen ?
 

FalconZero

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For people who are having a meltdown and not able to put their thoughts together -
  • No, this is not a mini-Kargil. 4-6 militants are hiding in the Poonch forest who seems to be familiar with the terrain, and are supplied by locals with food and intel. Forces have started an endurance operation to minimize casaulties.


  • This tweet is referring to previous martyrs, not new casualties. OSINTs are going apeshit with wrong information.

  • Arrested LeT terrorist Zia Mustafa was taken by armed forces for identification of Poonch forest hideouts, and probably got killed either by terrorists or by own forces when something went wrong.

  • Amit Shah & Modi are still busy with the next elections and couldn't spare a single tweet honoring the martyrs while our forces will continue to die due to lack of equipment and pacifistic policies.
I wonder if going full russian way was a better option than wasting time trying to pin point the terrorist. Assuming general location was known, forces should have just gone for full weapon dump (bombs, lgbs) or
even white phosphorous
.
 

Indrajit

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As though the information we post are of conspiracy theory, is it not happening on ground??
Who's "we"? Are you speaking for a group? Usually posters here speak for themselves while you seem to want to speak on behalf of "we".
 

mist_consecutive

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Is it possible for them to have tunnels that open up at the other side of the border.

We have been arresting OGW's but supply of ammunition and intel seems to suggest they might have cross border informants.

Media blackout is a good think IMO. We don't want an another 26/11 were our channels are broadcasting live info which in turn was being used by pakistani handlers.
Unlikely IMO, Bhata Dhurian forest is a good 14km away from LoC, and digging tunnel in hilly terrain is hardly an easy task. Most probably interconnected natural tunnels and bunkers similar to Afghanistan.

I wonder if going full russian way was a better option than wasting time trying to pin point the terrorist. Assuming general location was known, forces should have just gone for full weapon dump (bombs, lgbs) or
even white phosphorous
.
Using Napalm and white phosphorus to burn down the forest is a good idea, however that will also give terrorists ample opportunities to run away taking advantage of the chaos and smoke.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While we curse Indian Army for not being able to handle terrorists, we need to realize the situation is not easy. From what we know, it is hilly terrain with thick foilage, bad rainy + foggy weather reducing visibility, and interconnected caves and tunnels to hide. The terrorists seem to have a good understanding of terrain so it is even difficult.

Remember, the Taliban used such natural caves to hide from the US military, and US military with its all might, armed drones, state-of-art surveillance equipment was not able to do naught to the Taliban in most cases.

The Afghan terrain is barren with clear visibility and no foliage. JnK is Afghanistan + forest.

So let's be patient, trust in our army, and hope for the best. The good thing is terrorists are cornered and they are at least not able to escape or do any terror activities.
 

Viper316

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Unlikely IMO, Bhata Dhurian forest is a good 14km away from LoC, and digging tunnel in hilly terrain is hardly an easy task. Most probably interconnected natural tunnels and bunkers similar to Afghanistan.



Using Napalm and white phosphorus to burn down the forest is a good idea, however that will also give terrorists ample opportunities to run away taking advantage of the chaos and smoke.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While we curse Indian Army for not being able to handle terrorists, we need to realize the situation is not easy. From what we know, it is hilly terrain with thick foilage, bad rainy + foggy weather reducing visibility, and interconnected caves and tunnels to hide. The terrorists seem to have a good understanding of terrain so it is even difficult.

Remember, the Taliban used such natural caves to hide from the US military, and US military with its all might, armed drones, state-of-art surveillance equipment was not able to do naught to the Taliban in most cases.

The Afghan terrain is barren with clear visibility and no foliage. JnK is Afghanistan + forest.

So let's be patient, trust in our army, and hope for the best. The good thing is terrorists are cornered and they are at least not able to escape or do any terror activities.
We must inflict a damage of heavy magnitude on pak installations across border in response to the terrorist infiltration, no point in considering this as proxy war. Govt must give free hands to forces, so the armed forces can unilaterally decide on cross border raids.
 

mist_consecutive

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We must inflict a damage of heavy magnitude on pak installations across border in response to the terrorist infiltration, no point in considering this as proxy war. Govt must give free hands to forces, so the armed forces can unilaterally decide on cross border raids.
Forces have a free hand, time is not optimal to strike Pakistan. China is breathing down our neck, and we might be looking forward to an armed conflict with China within the next 1-2 months.

Post Jan, when the snow has settled on LAC, will be an ideal time to do a major offensive on Pakistan. Till then survive on copium.
 

Brood Father

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Suddenly the chatter has died of army person killing because only old terrorist was killed it seems, this might be a trap laid by army to take a terrorist to the forest so that they come out of thier rat hole ..
It looks like army have suceeded in doing that ..
 

Mikel

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Suddenly the chatter has died of army person killing because only old terrorist was killed it seems, this might be a trap laid by army to take a terrorist to the forest so that they come out of thier rat hole ..
It looks like army have suceeded in doing that ..
Only one account shared that cause she misunderstood the original ANI tweet. This was definitely a hit by the army.
 

hit&run

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Poonch attacks clearly tells the disfuctional state of sarkaari security infrastructure and management. The jungles and difficult terrains are left abandoned with an assumption that no one will venture in there.

This is 21st century and somehow security is being handled with pre-industrial outlook.

So many decades and still there is no proper defence grids, zone demarcations, assigned zonal agencies leave alone habitable military-grade building infrastructure. Sorry the word military-grade in India means stone bunkers and primitive trenches. This makes our soldiers strong. Good infrastructure, comfortable working conditions complying with international standards will increase our cost. These special facilities are only meant for Politicians.
 

JBH22

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Poonch attacks clearly tells the disfuctional state of sarkaari security infrastructure and management. The jungles and difficult terrains are left abandoned with an assumption that no one will venture in there.
True and false also, we cannot be present everywhere.
But then it shows that the fencing and LOC cannot be seal completely. Now can we introduce tech like sensors or something to detect them, may be we can explore.
The problem that i see is how these fvkers have stretched the encounter to 14 days.

This is 21st century and somehow security is being handled with pre-industrial outlook.
All the guys at the top are from late 80s or early 90s cadre they are reacting based on what they have learned.

So many decades and still there is no proper defence grids, zone demarcations, assigned zonal agencies leave alone habitable military-grade building infrastructure. Sorry the word military-grade in India means stone bunkers and primitive trenches. This makes our soldiers strong. Good infrastructure, comfortable working conditions complying with international standards will increase our cost. These special facilities are only meant for Politicians.
We do not have bunkers, we still rely on sangar to secure the LOC. But then we fight with what we have.
 

mokoman

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For people who are having a meltdown and not able to put their thoughts together -
  • No, this is not a mini-Kargil. 4-6 militants are hiding in the Poonch forest who seems to be familiar with the terrain, and are supplied by locals with food and intel. Forces have started an endurance operation to minimize casaulties.


  • This tweet is referring to previous martyrs, not new casualties. OSINTs are going apeshit with wrong information.

  • Arrested LeT terrorist Zia Mustafa was taken by armed forces for identification of Poonch forest hideouts, and probably got killed either by terrorists or by own forces when something went wrong.

  • Amit Shah & Modi are still busy with the next elections and couldn't spare a single tweet honoring the martyrs while our forces will continue to die due to lack of equipment and pacifistic policies.

Poonch (Jammu and Kashmir) [India], October 24 (ANI): Two policemen and an army jawan sustained injuries after terrorists opened fire on Sunday morning in the Bhata Durian area of Poonch in Jammu and Kashmir.

looks like new casualties but not martyred , 3 injured . 2 police man and a jawan.

real shady shit going on .

Zia Mustafa was captured on 2003 , how would he know anything 18 years later ?

bringing him to hideout , then shootout , now him + 3 of our guys injured.

this honestly feels like hostage situation - like someone else said.
 

Tridev123

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I wonder if going full russian way was a better option than wasting time trying to pin point the terrorist. Assuming general location was known, forces should have just gone for full weapon dump (bombs, lgbs) or
even white phosphorous
.
It is good that many people are willing to consider use of alternatives to conventional weapons when faced with extraordinary situations. Nobody will support the regular use of chemical weapons. But in high risk cases where there is zero civilian population and only some drugged & mad extremists are involved(in this case only foreign origin terrorists, not even Kashmiris) some out of the ordinary measures to combat the situation may be considered.

One major reason for use would be to minimise our casualties and complete the operation quickly.

I suspect that the whole game plan of the ISI was to get our troops bogged down for days and possibly weeks in operations against these terrorists. The treacherous terrain played a part in facilitating the enemy strategy.

As suggested white phosphorus or even other agents like mustard gas etc could be considered as being part of an extraordinary response to an extraordinary situation.

I am sure that both the United States and Russia still have stocks of chemical weapons stored secretly for use in extreme circumstances. So they simply cannot claim the moral high ground. Lesser said about China.

Napalm, cluster bombs etc are other options available. A Fuel Air Explosive bomb burst over any cave like or bunker like fortification will on detonation simply suck out the oxygen in the area and collapse the lungs of any terrorists hiding there.

Anyway I think the assessment is that the Poonch operations are nearing closure.

But the Pak army needs to pay the price for the misadventure. No doubt about it.
 

Floydian

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Issue hw would army ensure next time this will not happen ?
The meltdown in this forum is being exhibited more frequently as the appalling condition of the defence acquisition policy of our forces get exposed...
Didn't we have the SAR fitted planes/UAV or foliage penetrating radar- fitted aircraft/ UAVs to track the tunnels or pigs hiding in the dense forests? Why couldn't the higher-ups in the system forecast such a scenario basis the experience of 20+ years of terrorism in the region and acquire the bare min numbers of such systems to fight contingency situations like the one ongoing in Poonch!?

How careless can the GOI be while our men get martyred fighting the expendable jihadi pigs?
Some things need to change, sooner the better!
 
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Maharaj skandgupta

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The meltdown in this forum is being exhibited more frequently as the appalling condition of the defence acquisition policy of our forces get exposed...
Didn't we have the SAR fitted planes/UAV or foliage penetrating radar- fitted aircraft/ UAVs to track the tunnels or pigs hiding in the dense forests? Why can't the higher-ups in the system acquire the bare min numbers to fight contingency situations like the one ongoing in Poonch!?

How careless can the GOI be while our men get martyred fighting the indispensable jihadi pigs?
Some things need to change, sooner the better!
We have too many men , saar thats why
 

Tony HMG

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Casualties will increase and keep happening till the government does not stop its kashmiriyat and Aman ki Asha shit. The local Muslim population has always supported paki pigs. We will lose kashmir for sure, as pakis are winning. No matter how much we joke on Pakistan, we are losing our well trained jawans to shitty jihadi pigs. We are a laughing stock globally on how not to handle terror. Forces waiting outside mosque for a pig to come our side or kadi ninda singh suspending counter terror operations for ramzan.
 

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