India Pakistan conflict along IB and LoC (July 2021 onwards)

Covfefe

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This video s doing rounds on twitter and talking about India going Israel way.
Israel's actions are appreciable, but they fight against a bunch of sewage-hiding guerrillas with their first world army backed by the most powerful economy and military in the world.

India has been fighting a huge nuclear state backed by the top two economies of the world, there is a huge difference.
 

abingdonboy

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Seven day combat ops on Indian soil is worrying, that means terrorists are well entrenched and being resupplied if they are fighting against a professional combat unit that has effectively unlimited logistics on their side.

Someone has dropped the ball big time and as always we only learn of these glaring issues in retrospect when the enemy has already taken advantage.

Failing to tackle the root cause (Pakistan) is understandable but failing to secure your own territory and preventing these enemy strongholds on your soil is unforgivable but there won't be accountability.


This is like fighting Vietnam style battles but in India, crazy.
 

abingdonboy

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Let MPs, MLAs, Ministers, Judges be targetted and no tears will be shed for them.

Why Soldiers, Why Civilians always?
Actually this is a perverse way of looking at things. Yes it's tragic that soldiers and civilians are hit but they are soft targets by nature.


If elected officials and the officers of the state like judges start to be eliminated or even face such threat in a democracy then you are on the road to a failed state.
 

abingdonboy

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he looks tired and depressed ,proabably he is loosing faith in mr 56
Yeah right, let's all pretend history began in May 2014.


Things are not going well in JK today but put it into historical context, this is nothing like the 90s/early 00s.

Also the EAM will see things from 30,000ft ie strategically, these tragedies in one state in India are not impacting the overall civilisational arc of India, that is his remit.
 

Waanar

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I'll keep stating this because frankly, this cannot be overstated.

Kashmir won't be fixed without armed settlers flooding in.
Remember what foiled Operation Gibraltar in 65.
Not the Army, not the Air force, not the IB.
Pro Indian village peasants.
This is what's needed.
Frankly, I cannot believe how this is even an argument.
Set settlers lose upon them.

It'll be a hastened pacification and an incredible drop in the expense required to maintain the Army deployment inside Kashmir.

We already have a whole stock of shit INSAS and other outdated tools.
Just hand those over.

It's not like our institutions don't have any experience regarding such a thing.
Salwa Judum in Chattisgarh, Pir Panjal Scouts, Ikhwans, armed Gujjars and Bakarwals etc have already been a successful formula.

We also have Israel which is a literal master of armed settlers placement.
Cross train if you must. It's honestly not needed though. This was all being done 2 decades back. I'm sure the IA's institutional memory hasn't faded in that regard.
 

Jimih

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If elected officials and the officers of the state like judges start to be eliminated or even face such threat in a democracy then you are on the road to a failed state.
Than only their eyes will open.

Death of soldiers and civilians should not be used for scoring political brownie points.
 

captscooby81

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Same old strategy not to target SFs and go after non locals in form of lone wolf attacks looks like 90s days are getting replayed when local and foreign tourist were kidnapped and killed .

East targets are these poor labourers who can be targeted easily as they will be without any protection , Create a sense among non locals Valley is not safe for them and they should leave .

Frustration is clearly visible from terrorist in these type of attacks .

Wtf is going on? Is this a new group that's entered and been activated? ISI taking the gloves off now Kabul has fallen?

I'm more interested in the strategic logic behind all of this, who benefits?
 

abingdonboy

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There's a two front situation and it would be stupid to assume that both Pakistan and China won't take advantage if they can. I won't be surprised if it's coordinated. A lot of posters here seem to be very optimistic as far as things we can do, we are in a very tough situation and the government hasn't planned well enough. Our leverage is limited because we haven't planned nearly enough for such a situation. . A thousand heavy artillery guns on the LoC would have given the Pakistanis something to think about.

This government inherited a poor hand on defence but they haven't focused much on making up immediate shortcomings especially on things that we could have done something quickly about. The army's stupid procrastination on ATAGS will cost us plenty but the government should have pushed harder, atleast for a few hundred pieces. Emergency procurement is all very fine but it suggests a deeper malaise that needs to be rectified. Repeating such procurement can only be seen as incompetence.

I'm hoping against hope that we have more cards than we have shown, things that will make a difference now. Just to make it clear, nothing that has happened so far including the recent upsurge in terrorist activities is completely unexpected but there is a possibility that it could get worse. I just wish, we had more intermediate levers that would have given pakistan pause. They seem to be betting that with the LAC being what it is, our hands may be tied up with regard to escalation.
This is hilariously wrong.

If India's nukes and million man army aren't enough to deter the Pakis you think a few more guns would? There are glaring gaps in India's defence capability but it's just such an illogical assessment to say that conventional military capacity would have any bearing on this situation vis a vis Pakistan.

I actually think the Modi govt has understood this hence why they've tried to isolate Pakistan in the international arena and have had varying degrees of success at this.

Everyone wants to blame the govt because that absolves them of any responsibility.

Every Indian should open their eyes and accept they are in a civilisational conflict and this isn't going to be solved in a few terms of ANY politician. It's a compete fallacy to think this kind of low level instability can be combatted fully but this mentality is exactly why you get emotional reactions and disappointment when such low-scale violence takes place.
 

abingdonboy

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Than only their eyes will open.

Death of soldiers and civilians should not be used for scoring political brownie points.
The ramifications of such actions would be far too damaging to India as a whole to be welcomed.

The idea that the people that should be alarmed at the current issues need to have their eyes opened is nonsense, they have FAR more immersion in these events than we ever will.
 

THESIS THORON

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This is hilariously wrong.

If India's nukes and million man army aren't enough to deter the Pakis you think a few more guns would? There are glaring gaps in India's defence capability but it's just such an illogical assessment to say that conventional military capacity would have any bearing on this situation vis a vis Pakistan.

I actually think the Modi govt has understood this hence why they've tried to isolate Pakistan in the international arena and have had varying degrees of success at this.

Everyone wants to blame the govt because that absolves them of any responsibility.

Every Indian should open their eyes and accept they are in a civilisational conflict and this isn't going to be solved in a few terms of ANY politician. It's a compete fallacy to think this kind of low level instability can be combatted fully but this mentality is exactly why you get emotional reactions and disappointment when such low-scale violence takes place.
all the lad-di-da discussions will go in vain if loc firing still not resumes.

which till now hasn't and that is scary, since this is highest casuality in ops in 2 decades.
 

backburner

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Yeah right, let's all pretend history began in May 2014.


Things are not going well in JK today but put it into historical context, this is nothing like the 90s/early 00s.

Also the EAM will see things from 30,000ft ie strategically, these tragedies in one state in India are not impacting the overall civilisational arc of India, that is his remit.
do you really think EAM takes decisions on his own? i don't know about you but kashmir is being returned to those guys who created this situation in first place.......and it's not just one state it's the capital ,where hands are being choped in talibani style , anarchy is like an avalanche it starts small and ends up becoming a behemoth
 

abingdonboy

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all the lad-di-da discussions will go in vain if loc firing still not resumes.

which till now hasn't and that is scary, since this is highest casuality in ops in 2 decades.
I'd like to see some evidence that LOC firing disrupts terrorism in JK because I can't find any link.
 

THESIS THORON

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I'd like to see some evidence that LOC firing disrupts terrorism in JK because I can't find any link.
wether it distrupts terrorism or not, but it will surely make pakistan bleed in both ways

cost of human lives and their dwindling economy
 

abingdonboy

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do you really think EAM takes decisions on his own? i don't know about you but kashmir is being returned to those guys who created this situation in first place.......and it's not just one state it's the capital ,where hands are being choped in talibani style , anarchy is like an avalanche it starts small and ends up becoming a behemoth
Switch off your TV/social media, you seem unable to step back and contextualise things. Over 1 billion people in a vast land, many of whom live in impoverished conditions- crimes will be committed and let's be honest backwardness exists in much of the non-urban non-gen Z demographics.

I watched a video yesterday of a young girl being beaten by an entire village somewhere in S.India purely because she spoke to a male not from her family, is this also Modi's fault?
 

Jimih

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The ramifications of such actions would be far too damaging to India as a whole to be welcomed.

The idea that the people that should be alarmed at the current issues need to have their eyes opened is nonsense, they have FAR more immersion in these events than we ever will.
Sri Lankan govt took LTTE seriously when their Presidents, PMs and Politicians were being started to get targetted.

And why are we inclined to give free pass to political class of the J&K state? they are 100 percent involved in the current mess.
 

abingdonboy

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Sri Lankans took LTTE seriously when their Presidents, PMs and Politicians were being started to get targetted.

Why we are inclined to give free pass to political class of the J&K state? they are 100 percent involved in the current mess.
Come on, do you REALLY think the senior leadership in India don't take the issues in JK seriously?

Like I said they are more immersed in the realties than we ever will be but they are also more aware of the policy options and also more aware of the unintended consequences that can come along.
 

backburner

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Switch off your TV/social media, you seem unable to step back and contextualise things. Over 1 billion people in a vast land, many of whom live in impoverished conditions- crimes will be committed and let's be honest backwardness exists in much of the non-urban non-gen Z demographics.

I watched a video yesterday of a young girl being beaten by an entire village somewhere in S.India purely because she spoke to a male not from her family, is this also Modi's fault?
no i don't blame modi for everything and by the way i am from bengal i have seen the carnage , the poor bjp party workers were on contact with delhi in our neighbourhood but to no avail , thank god no one was killed here , i had to convince a cousin of mine to remove jai shree ram from her profile pic as goons of tmc were searching contact lists of a local defector to check who were still supporting bjp
 

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