India Pakistan conflict along IB and LoC (July 2021)

Kumaoni

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Like i said. Find and talk to a veteran. Talk to a bunch - Books written by Army officers have to be vetted by HQ and okay'd.
I don’t need your approval on my sources. Thank you very much.
The Goal was to take Jaffna. We took the penninsula in 3 weeks. That was it. We laboured struggling to stay above water for 2 years.

The LTTE in the end managed to retake Jafna with withdrawing Indian Forces and then they killed the PM of India.
Nope. They didn’t eject Indian forces from there. They reoccupied with the IPKF vacated. Totally different there buddy.

Talk to some vets.
Will stick to reading actual literature instead of going off of a bunch of dude trust me. I can’t verify your convos, hence, you probably even overexxagarate what they said just to demean the armed forces some more.0
No it isnt. You are forgetting 62 and 68. Its always been there - sleeping. So we slept too.
We won in 67. Your point?
Sorry - i cant get behind thise Blind Brainwashing and chest thumping. our Troops SUFFERED through Kargil. The Mil bras and Civilian leadership imposed Risk averse ROEs. Our Troops geared for COIN under RR didnt have the equipment or suuplies or logistics to fight the battle. Brute Force and sheer willpower of the Grunt and innovation from the GROUND saw us through. The issues in manegment were again there when we did the mobilization post the parliament attacks. Suggest reading the Kargil Commision report as well. and AGAIN talk to Vets who were Captains / Majors during this confrontation.


For what its worth i went to alot of funerals during and post Kargil has a young adult. the conversations around me made me see the reality of the suck differently. Thats all. Take it for what its worth
You think soldiers enjoy fighting? Name me one conflict in which any army did not suffer.
 

Waanar

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Will stick to reading actual literature instead of going off of a bunch of dude trust me.
So when the vets put something in print, it's suddenly reliable but when they say it verbally, it's not?
I can’t verify your convos, hence, you probably even overexxagarate what they said just to demean the armed forces some more.0
Why would Indians demean their own forces?
 

nongaddarliberal

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General bajwa audio leaked??? Can anyone verify this audio??Bajwa gaaliyan de rha hai imran khan ko XD!! and also he is saying that hume paise lene hote hai amrika se despite still amrika ke khilaf bolta hai imran khan!!! XD XD :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

This is an EXCELLENT find. This actually sounds legit. Notice how he says he "allowed" Imrand to do what he wants.

P.S. No offense to Punjabis here, but Hindi/Urdu in a heavy Punjabi accent is the most annoying shit one can listen to. Especially the paki accent. Will have to listen to a Vajpayee speech to fix my ears now.
 

rkhanna

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I don’t need your approval on my sources. Thank you very much.
Nope. They didn’t eject Indian forces from there. They reoccupied with the IPKF vacated. Totally different there buddy.


Will stick to reading actual literature instead of going off of a bunch of dude trust me. I can’t verify your convos, hence, you probably even overexxagarate what they said just to demean the armed forces some more.0
We won in 67. Your point?
You think soldiers enjoy fighting? Name me one conflict in which any army did not suffer.
You are right i am wrong.
 

Kumaoni

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So when the vets put something in print, it's suddenly reliable but when they say it verbally, it's not?
Can’t verify if the convo happened.

Meanwhile do read this account of a search and cordon Op done in kokuvil
3FB27D34-06C3-48D8-B85A-12C8034916AF.jpeg
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Same battalion later wiped LTTE out from its area of responsibility, killing the area commandsr
E0712A44-103C-4A8C-BFDA-7DE04E678F0A.jpeg


41181548-C088-4F84-8DFF-C0C57835D50D.jpeg
 

Waanar

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Can’t verify if the convo happened.

Meanwhile do read this account of a search and cordon Op done in kokuvil
View attachment 173790View attachment 173791View attachment 173792View attachment 173794View attachment 173795

Same battalion later wiped LTTE out from its area of responsibility, killing the area commandsrView attachment 173796

View attachment 173793
The same Major General Sardeshpande's book summarised on the Jocko Podcast (Thanks to @Jedi Operator for bringing this gem to my attention)-
Give it a listen and tell me if it paints the rosy picture you're trying to push, or the thorny picture the other members are trying to.

Truth lies somewhere in the middle and I err on the side of thorny considering how aimless IPKF was and how the war turned out for us.
 

Jedi Operator

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The same Major General Sardeshpande's book summarised on the Jocko Podcast (Thanks to @Jedi Operator for bringing this gem to my attention)-
Give it a listen and tell me if it paints the rosy picture you're trying to push, or the thorny picture the other members are trying to.

Truth lies somewhere in the middle and I err on the side of thorny considering how aimless IPKF was and how the war turned out for us.
True that and i believe only IMSF (MARCOS) had a mandate and a goal which was to destroy the Guru Nagar Jetty and clear channels for IPKSF advance. They were also focused on beach reconnaissance and maritime interdiction which they did.

I mean MARCOS had only 40 guys operating their at the time and no one got Killed in Action. The first fatal MARCOS casualty was an officer Lt Dharambir Singh and his buddy PO Mahavir Singh on 12 August 1999 while disposing of a landmine.
 

Kumaoni

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The same Major General Sardeshpande's book summarised on the Jocko Podcast (Thanks to @Jedi Operator for bringing this gem to my attention)-
Give it a listen and tell me if it paints the rosy picture you're trying to push, or the thorny picture the other members are trying to.

Truth lies somewhere in the middle and I err on the side of thorny considering how aimless IPKF was and how the war turned out for us.
The book I read itself agrees with the narrative of the thorny side. I’m saying that despite being tied with one hand behind the back, ipkf performed well. The LTTE literalky had better firepower than us in 87 but they still failed to defend Jaffna.
 

WarmongerLSK

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The book I read itself agrees with the narrative of the thorny side. I’m saying that despite being tied with one hand behind the back, ipkf performed well. The LTTE literalky had better firepower than us in 87 but they still failed to defend Jaffna.
book name pls
 

Hari Sud

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America - Pakistan are Friends Again

See how fast the geopolitics change, Pakistan, which was unwelcome in the corridors of power in Washington only 5 years back is being showered with gifts of $6.5 billion IMF aid, $2 billion in World Bank aid, and worst of all $450 million in military hardware upgrade. The first two are understandable and are necessary in order to get Pakistan out of the economic hole it dug for itself. The difficulty lies in understanding the military modernization of its F-16 fleet.

An official reason given by US is that this upgrade is needed to fight terrorists. Right question... where are the terrorists? Pakistan itself is a state sponsor of terrorism, and who will they fight against? A geopolitical analysis by US "think tanks" has determined that it is necessary to retain Pakistan as a client state as leverage against India.

Come to think of it; China has the same attitude towards Pakistan. For them, Pakistan is leverage against India, so helping Pakistan serves a larger strategic objective for them as well.

Consequently, Pakistan is in the lead in this geopolitical game. Both US & China want the same from Pakistan, that is, to keep India in check, although President Biden saying that ‘India-Pak are both Partners of US’. To a strong query from JaiShankar, that this military aid is “politics at work; also You are not fooling anybody”, there is no reply.

Where does that leave India in this game? India’s Foreign Minister have told the US audience that we know what game US is playing. All those highest level discussions at QUAD and 2+2 meetings with US have come to a naught. In fact, India's security is at risk if Pakistan and China, for different reasons, take part in military action against India. Then only Russian submarines will arrive in the Indian Ocean like in 1971 and ward off the Chinese and Pakistanis, both.

India knows full well that the US and China will never come to blows, although they threaten each other from time to time. It is the supply chain politics together with consumer goods imports, which will keep US and China shaking hands. In the near future US will not be able to shift the supply chain, hence US policy is not really independent but it is self interest.

India must now rethink its relations with the USA.
 

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