India Pakistan conflict along IB and LoC (July 2021)

FalconSlayers

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Nowhere on earth but in India is where such clownery happens because of the policy of allowing local terrorists in Kashmir to surrender and return to mainstream. Most of the cases they will not surrender as they WANT TO DIE and those who want to surrender will surrender even without the security forces asking them to do so. All thise “the youth are radicalised to do such dirty jobs” is a meme. Even though this swine was killed along with another jihadi but his encounter could’ve finished long back had this nonsense not occured in between.
 

Automatic Kalashnikov

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Nowhere on earth but in India is where such clownery happens because of the policy of allowing local terrorists in Kashmir to surrender and return to mainstream. Most of the cases they will not surrender as they WANT TO DIE and those who want to surrender will surrender even without the security forces asking them to do so. All thise “the youth are radicalised to do such dirty jobs” is a meme. Even though this swine was killed along with another jihadi but his encounter could’ve finished long back had this nonsense not occured in between.
Why put lives of own troops in danger if the terrorist can surrender? No harm in trying to get him to surrender.
 

FalconSlayers

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Why put lives of own troops in danger if the terrorist can surrender? No harm in trying to get him to surrender.
Kill him with an element of surprise, instead of encounter killings, just assassinate them individually. No one’s willing to buy your goodwill.
 

Automatic Kalashnikov

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Kill him with an element of surprise, instead of encounter killings, just assassinate them individually. No one’s willing to buy your goodwill.
RR usually moves in with a full cordon, with several men, very rarely do they maintain surprise element. More then goodwill it is about not having to engage if a surrender is possible. An encounter always poses threat to the life of soldiers also.
 

AnantS

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RR usually moves in with a full cordon, with several men, very rarely do they maintain surprise element. More then goodwill it is about not having to engage if a surrender is possible. An encounter always poses threat to the life of soldiers also.
Also such activity boost HR rating of Army, even if translates to zero effort on ground. Most encounters start with asking surrender - with that activity being videographed. Once done they go full boom boom on Tango and their hide out.
 

Automatic Kalashnikov

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U kno many terrorists fire on soldiers while they ask to surrender right?
When? As far as I know surrender appeals are made from far distance via loudspeaker or phones. And once the terrorist come out the soldier moves out of cover to check him only when he has spotted that there is no weapon on him
 

Kumaoni

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When? As far as I know surrender appeals are made from far distance via loudspeaker or phones. And once the terrorist come out the soldier moves out of cover to check him only when he has spotted that there is no weapon on him
That’s how the encounter starts usually. They respond literally by opening fife
 

Kumaoni

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and you still dont understand what i am saying. You are viewing victories in black / white from a Conventional battle mindset - like the Americans do when they analyse Vietnam. We took towns - but the towns were the WRONG objective. We had ZERO capability to area deny the free movement of LTTE and other rebel groups. The Rebel groups still continued to operate with (relative) impunity for the most part. There were no fixed lines and the enemy made us fight them at THEIR choosing. We were ill equiped and trained for what the task eventually was.
The goal was to get all the Tamil groups to have a proper election. The LTTE was the only thing that refused to disarm, and it would be impossible too given the fact that there was 0 intel. Not that there was any incapablity.
Firstly alot of what you read today on Lanka has been whitewashed (for a lack of better word).
Would rather trust the word of veterans than someone online.

Lastly Our taking of many urban centers (the method and manner) was ill concieved and So brutal that in many cases the LTTE cadre grew due to our excesses. We did not control the battle space for the most part. Loosing hearts and minds had nothing to do with politicans but IA SOPs in a conflict they had no clue they had entered
Okay? Doesn’t mean we got our ass kicked
Talking about specific battles or actions is fine - like i said there were definetly moments of Individual brilliance/exceptionalism, but ultimately outshone by the resourcefullness, strategic mindset and commitment of the LTTE. They ultimately took down the Prime Minister of India.
Lol hiding like a rat for 3 years in the jungle. They didn’t win, we just failed. That’s all. With better intelligence that rat Prabhakharan would be a fried Pakoda in 1988 itself.
and IMO Op Pawan had a lasting physc effect on Indian Army leadership that we suffer from even today. We went from 71/Op Pawan to becoming a very risk averse force. COIN victories and action in Kashmir satisfied the beaten down Army brass and that has now become a big chain around our ankles. We Struggled and laboured through Kargil and shocked into action against China.
ROFLMAO. Now people on PDF are going to screen shot this and say “look Indians admit their army sucks” and shit.

Muh struggled through Kargil bullshit. The enemy lost more in manpower, international face, and even land. They lost 5770 and 5310 in their side of the LoC itself as long as Anbari complex.

With China, their aggression is something that’s totally recent: back then they weren’t in a dominating position economically. Now they area

Lack of Prep - Equipment, training, C&C, Tech - still plaques us today whether visavis our immediate threats on the border or within our borders OR protecting Indian interests outside our borders - for the 5 largest economy thats unforgivanle.
5th largest economy with a GDP z per capita of what? India is a developing country that just got out of colonization 70 years ago. Give some time.
 

rkhanna

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Would rather trust the word of veterans than someone online.
Like i said. Find and talk to a veteran. Talk to a bunch - Books written by Army officers have to be vetted by HQ and okay'd.

The goal was to get all the Tamil groups to have a proper election. The LTTE was the only thing that refused to disarm, and it would be impossible too given the fact that there was 0 intel. Not that there was any incapablity.
The Goal was to take Jaffna. We took the penninsula in 3 weeks. That was it. We laboured struggling to stay above water for 2 years.

The LTTE in the end managed to retake Jafna with withdrawing Indian Forces and then they killed the PM of India.

Okay? Doesn’t mean we got our ass kicked
Talk to some vets.

5th largest economy with a GDP z per capita of what? India is a developing country that just got out of colonization 70 years ago. Give some time.
We have a 50bn+ budget. We have a meandering aging struggling Military on all Fronts. We face constant threats internal and external constantly since the day we were born and with economic prosperity the quality of leadership both in the Military and MoD is on a downward trajectory.


With China, their aggression is something that’s totally recent: back then they weren’t in a dominating position economically. Now they area
No it isnt. You are forgetting 62 and 68. Its always been there - sleeping. So we slept too.



ROFLMAO. Now people on PDF are going to screen shot this and say “look Indians admit their army sucks” and shit.
Our ego cannot be so fragile that we worry about what some morons on PDF say. Just the same way the morons on this forum dont change reality. Make up your own mind.

Muh struggled through Kargil bullshit. The enemy lost more in manpower, international face, and even land. They lost 5770 and 5310 in their side of the LoC itself as long as Anbari complex.
Sorry - i cant get behind thise Blind Brainwashing and chest thumping. our Troops SUFFERED through Kargil. The Mil bras and Civilian leadership imposed Risk averse ROEs. Our Troops geared for COIN under RR didnt have the equipment or suuplies or logistics to fight the battle. Brute Force and sheer willpower of the Grunt and innovation from the GROUND saw us through. The issues in manegment were again there when we did the mobilization post the parliament attacks. Suggest reading the Kargil Commision report as well. and AGAIN talk to Vets who were Captains / Majors during this confrontation.


For what its worth i went to alot of funerals during and post Kargil has a young adult. the conversations around me made me see the reality of the suck differently. Thats all. Take it for what its worth
 
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