India Pakistan conflict along IB and LoC (July 2021 onwards)

[Angel of War]

Appeal to emotions and pity. This is a very common fallacy used in certain echo chambers.

Also rather answering the direct question but using above fallacy make it a red herring as well.

Such fallacies are going to hinder us understand your argument.

At what level of Soilder rank the pay matches with administrative rank government employee?

Why didn't you answer my part regarding NFU ?

 

[Angel of War]

@hit&run go through this article

Military & central police forces angry as govt panel on pay parity keeps them out

Officers from Army, Navy, IAF, CRPF, BSF, ITBP and other central police forces are crying foul over the panel formed by DoPT to discuss non-functional upgradation.

theprint.in

 

[daya]

Even if you compare the salaries of a commissioned officer in the Armed Forces with his equivalent in the police services / IAS in disturbed areas you'll see who earns more . There is no equality . This is the general thing that you'll hear from army officers nowadays. Career prospects in the Armed Forces have sadly diminished over time due to the bureaucratic control. I won't say anything more because you need to feel what I'm trying to convey here and maybe you're not able to get my point

Cadre restructure me Commanding Officer - full colonel banne lage.. ab kya unit ka CO Major General hona chahiye. Sabko yahi shikayat hai ki unko kam mila... Commissioned officer ki tulna me jara ek fauji ke prospect dekhiye ki unko kitna mila.. Isiliye yahan sirf sipahi/clerk aur fauji ki post par bharti hona chahiye..

 

[hit&run]

Why didn't you answer my part regarding NFU ?

Because I agree with your premise that Soilder must be paid well. I have made similar comments on Indo china threads last year.

Since you have raised the issue you must be more detailed than going into the drill of quoting members and nitpicking.

Please write a detailed piece and give proper comparative stats than short emotional anecdotal references.

 

[Angel of War]

Cadre restructure me Commanding Officer - full colonel banne lage.. ab kya unit ka CO Major General hona chahiye. Sabko yahi shikayat hai ki unko kam mila... Commissioned officer ki tulna me jara ek fauji ke prospect dekhiye ki unko kitna mila.. Isiliye yahan sirf sipahi/clerk aur fauji ki post par bharti hona chahiye..

Bruh what are you trying to say ? It is obvious that a CO will be a full colonel and a Major General will be a Div commander. You know that a SP in NE earns more than a colonel in NE who is his equivalent in the Armed Forces

 

[Angel of War]

Because I agree with your premise that Soilder must be paid well. I have made similar comments on Indo china threads last year.

Since you have raised the issue you must be more detailed than going into the drill of quoting members and nitpicking.

Please write a detailed piece and give proper comparative stats than short emotional anecdotal references.

I have sent you an article, you can go through this again
@hit&run go through this article

Military & central police forces angry as govt panel on pay parity keeps them out

Officers from Army, Navy, IAF, CRPF, BSF, ITBP and other central police forces are crying foul over the panel formed by DoPT to discuss non-functional upgradation.

theprint.in

 

[Angel of War]

Cadre restructure me Commanding Officer - full colonel banne lage.. ab kya unit ka CO Major General hona chahiye. Sabko yahi shikayat hai ki unko kam mila... Commissioned officer ki tulna me jara ek fauji ke prospect dekhiye ki unko kitna mila.. Isiliye yahan sirf sipahi/clerk aur fauji ki post par bharti hona chahiye..

I am comparing Civil services officers and their equivalents in the Armed Forces not ORs with Civil services officers because I know they aren't on the same level .

 

[hit&run]

@hit&run go through this article

Military & central police forces angry as govt panel on pay parity keeps them out

Officers from Army, Navy, IAF, CRPF, BSF, ITBP and other central police forces are crying foul over the panel formed by DoPT to discuss non-functional upgradation.

theprint.in

I avoid the Print like dirty hands in my clinic. If your argument is founded on The Print report then I see it as a red flag.

I am not saying the issue is null and void but it will be helpful to read it from a few more sources also mentioning what government has to say or what they might be thinking on this issue. In my understanding, it can not be negligence or apathy on the government's part.

 

[Angel of War]

I avoid the Print like dirty hands in my clinic. If your argument is founded on The Print report then I see it as a red flag.

I am not saying the issue is null and void but it will be helpful to read it from a few more sources also mentioning what government has to say or what they might be thinking on this issue. In my understanding, it can not be negligence or apathy on the government's part.

why it can't be negligence on the government's part ? The print seems to be neutral unlike the wire and quint.

 

[Angel of War]

@hit&run I ain't got anything else to say, I've made my point. I only want the GoI to be a bit sensitive towards the needs of the Armed Forces personnel.

 

[Covfefe]

@Angel of War 's point is valid. There have been concerns raised by the Commissioned officers cadre as well regarding the pay parity. Also, how almost every IAS/IPS will make it to the ultimate or penultimate position atleast according to seniority position( IAS will very much make a Secretary, Chief/Cabinet might be rare but Secretary equivalent isn't very far fetched. Similarly an IPS will make IG/ Additional DG if not DG. Same cannot be said for Armed forces- this plus the loss of pay rising out of cadre)

@Angel of War why don't you write an article comparing the number of officers at each level -(Say DC or Joint Secretary level in IAS, SSP/DIG level in IPS or Colonel or any other equivalent rank in the military, and then the total size of the cadre vs the people making it to that level. Also the aggregate pay for them?

 

[hit&run]

why it can't be negligence on the government's part ? The print seems to be neutral unlike the wire and quint.

Let us say it is delinquency. Now the burden of proof is on you to show it. I hope you understand what negligence constitutes.

The equality of pay argument in principle is flawed in any case. A soldier can not be paid equally to an administrator. The qualification and competence are totally on different levels. That is why appeal to emotion is used when the this argument is put forth.

 

[hit&run]

To add more, this discrepancy can only be addressed if the whole set up is revamped and the lense is flipped on how we see both the services.

The argument from goverment’s side I can guess is founded on their last so-called reform on OROP. Also the budget for military services is totally exclusive that binds all its payroll and pensions with it.

The administrative services are also revenue-generating services which make them more prime and valuable as compare to forces which in pure economics terms can be called as liabilities. If there is no revenue there is no good army. Not only that the administrative services help develop human resources by using different means like education, health etc., which forces can eventually use.

 

[daya]

Bruh what are you trying to say ? It is obvious that a CO will be a full colonel and a Major General will be a Div commander. You know that a SP in NE earns more than a colonel in NE who is his equivalent in the Armed Forces

I just intend to say that there is no parity-no equality-no just system in India, whosoever gets a chance, uses it and moreover abuses it. And wait for a few years, division will be headed by Lt.General and you will see major cut in non commissioned posts. Take a screenshot of this post.

 

[Angel of War]

I just intend to say that there is no parity-no equality-no just system in India, whosoever gets a chance, uses it and moreover abuses it. And wait for a few years, division will be headed by Lt.General and you will see major cut in non commissioned posts. Take a screenshot of this post.

There was a proposal to abolish the brigadier rank but no headway has been made. Let's see what MoD babus decide

 

[hit&run]

I just intend to say that there is no parity-no equality-no just system in India, whosoever gets a chance, uses it and moreover abuses it. And wait for a few years, division will be headed by Lt.General and you will see major cut in non commissioned posts. Take a screenshot of this post.

Military is a voluntary services.
..................
@ezsasa I have become interested in this debate because I am seeing it relevant to another debate which is being done by certain type of woke kids of officers. This debate was first started by that useless Gurmeher Kaur.

The attack has been on people coming from certain political allegiance with nationalist fervour.

These kids are equating military services to public sector jobs and want their fathers not to risk their lives and live 9-5 shift normal life. They hate when people mourn their parent’s sacrifices and call it a pretence or political gimmick.

Otherwise so sharp, woke and argumentative there is functional dumbness at play which caters to leftist ideology, peace utopia, using pandering to emotions.

The counterargument that people do not ask them for obvious reasons can be made to check if their families are dysfunctional or it is the failure of their fathers who did not explain the occupational hazard and the call they make on their own choice to join forces? Do they not understand that peace is secondary to country's military might and military audacity which subsumes its soldiers?

Why their children have to come out and ask these questions to the so called warmongering regime and its followers when they could have simply asked the same question to their fathers.

The pay equality and other woke controversies appears to be part of the same game where certain doubts and despondencies are being planted to discourage people not to join.

 

[daya]

There was a proposal to abolish the brigadier rank but no headway has been made. Let's see what MoD babus decide

Abhi aage dekhiyega, thode aur saal beetenge to CO ki post ke liye Major General ka proposal jayega.. Har jagah yahi hai, group A officers apne liye har 5 saal me ek promotion chahte hain.. aur unke ye kharche neeche ki posts ko khatm kar poore kiye jaate hain...

 

[fire starter]

Col rawjesh.

 

[fire starter]

Lol.

 

[Angel of War]

Col rawjesh.

we gotta appreciate the resolve of the BLA for creating fear In the hearts of Pakistan army and Chinese dalals despite having little international support. May BLA wipe out all Chinese Dalals from Gwadar