India Pakistan conflict along IB and LoC (July 2021 onwards)

hurrians

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लोगों की गद्दारी पड़ गई भारी... पूंछ हमले से पहले आतंकियों ने की रेकी, गांव वालों ने की मदद.

No amount of fancy hardware can help when traitors are inside our land.

if as per what jaijagannath said is true about godi media, then nothing stops Bharath sarkar from taking action against these traitors, an action which should be a deterrent to such jihadi collaboration by jihadi sympathisers.


those not knowing Hindi kindly use Google translate.
 

another_armchair

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Districts of Rajouri, Poonch and other 'troublesome' areas measure less than 5-6k square kms.

The security establishment 'collective' can sort out this menace once and for all, if only they show some serious resolve to do so.

Losing men cheaply to waiting tangos is a collective shame for the forces, civilian Govt & the L&O machinery.

J&K is under central govt leadership. Things could move at the speed of light if those in control wished so.

The general argument in favor of poor results in the region is dilution of quality because of troops being shifted to the China border.

CRPF can step in by raising 5-10 battalions of COBRA & regular troopers. They won't be a drain on Army's budget. Funds can come from J&K-Central Govt and these men won't have limitations of 'equipment' either, there will be less bureaucratic hurdles to deal with over procurement.
 

SavageKing456

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Here 5 soldiers are dead due to totally avoidable circumstances (proper sanitation and proper APC vehicles) and 5 families will lose their brave sons and we are concerned about the wording.

Nice. Lovely
They can being IEDs too
Better to have foilage penetrating radar
 

airborneCommando

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Reality is reality. I’m not demoralizing anyone as i have specifically said that Bhartitya sena CAN and WILL win and kill those pigs as they HAVE in the past, if they make tactical adjustments and come out on top with only a scratch at most.

The reason i’m frustrated is not cuz bhartiya sena can’t do it. It’s because she can if she tried and the upper brass really focused down and modernized the force. The IA is full of some of the worlds most tough, and dedicated men. With loads of experience. Howveer, these alone can’t win a war. Proper SOPs and equipments are need of the hour.

Our men and even the upper brass are totally capable of creating a modern army which can make even the hearts in washington beat to it in fear. Hell, even with the equipmental deficiency the IA is still up there in lethality. Look at how they kicked the asses of China in Pangong, Tawang and held their own despite being outnumbered at least 5:1 in the Galwan valley.

The potential is there. We need to act on that potential. That’s it. It just gets frustrating esp after a fantastic year in 2022 in which IA had over a 30:1 kill ratio.

Last post on this topic.
In the past, kill ratio was high because locals (incl local Ms) from disturbed areas willingly ratted on terrorists since they were involved in looting their homes, raping their wives and daughters and what not.

Nowadays, they enjoy a good raport with a lot of local M population.
Generally speaking, In guerilla warfare, the guerillas always have had the upper hand but they still could be banged due to disparity bw the firepower and even technology.

Now picture this -
You have played a game and lost it earlier but you know your enemy's weakness...you come back later on, exploit the hell out of it using every possible resource plus your enemy's firepower is nerfed to prevent hypothetical HRV.
They call western pirpanjal a bottomless pit for a reason.
Even JSOC level equipment can't help you in such case.
WE HAVE TO PLAY OFFENSIVE
 

Suryavanshi

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I never said they were brave. I just said they aren’t scared of us. On the contrary they were cowardly for doing that.
"Brave"
"Coward"
"Fauladi Jigar"
"Chini ladybois"

In absence of first hand account and a significant language/cultural barrier, is it really objective to paint others as lacking in neceaaary character?

Will bravery save fauladi fauji from incoming fauladi rocket?

Assuming opposition lack character is a losers cope.
 

Tridev123

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Is he wrong though? Taking this level of casualties against poorly trained militamen is concerning.
I am not saying that the SOP's followed by the Army cannot be improved or better bullet proof trucks and LSV's could not have been used.
Do a proper Post Mortem of the situation to identify gaps in strategy, training and equipment. By all means..

But let's not throw shit on the entire Army record in Counter Insurgency/Terrorism operations spanning decades.

If we(the Army) were so ineffective then the North East and Kashmir should have been severed from the Indian Union long time ago by our enemies.

Now which supposed Superpower has not suffered fatalities at the hands of grossly inferior(training and equipment wise) fighters.

The mightiest Superpower the United States tasted humiliation in Vietnam. So called peasant soldiers with basic weapons killed dozens of US Army soldiers in numerous ambushes. Understating the casualties. Not to forget the significant fatalities incurred in Afghanistan at the hands of the Mujahideen.

The Chinese similarly were ass whipped by the inferiorly equipped Vietnamese Army. I doubt whether the PLA will fare any better if used in prolonged Counter Insurgency operations. I believe that the main reason that they were able to control Tibetan insurgents in the fifties and sixties was because of overwhelming numerical superiority. A ratio of 10:1 or even 20:1.Not by very good tactics or fighting ability. Also I believe that there were some reports of Chinese soldiers who served in United Nations peace keeping missions in Africa abondoning their posts and fleeing when attacked by rag tag African militias. An act of cowardice no doubt, if the reports are true.

Lastly the Russians tasted humiliation in Afghanistan at the hands of the ill trained, ill equipped Afghan Mujahideen.

One or even a few setbacks does not make our Army an ineffective force. Remember that the attack was certainly not an spur of the moment attack. It would have been preceeded by days of reconnaissance of the movements of our military convoys by the terrorists. The time and place would have been carefully chosen. So the element of surprise was with them. An failure of our intelligence network in the region, no doubt.

But as the ex Prime Minister of UK Margaret Thatcher once said 'we have to succeed every time but the enemy needs to succeed only once'. A reference to the then Irish Republican Army.

Not condoning any lapses on the part of the Army. But things become really serious only when repeated failures and setbacks occur suggesting an inherent flaw in our strategy. Other wise a couple of setbacks should not badly taint the reputation of the Army.

Human(Indian) lives are no doubt precious and every effort should be made to minimise casualties in any insurgent/terrorist attack.

Coming to the record of the pig lovers The Pakistan Army. Less said the better. The Pakistan Army has suffered numerous humiliations at the hands of the Balochis, the Pashtoons and other ethnic armed groups.I believe most of the Pak infantry travel in Toyota unarmoured vans and cars. The fucking reality is that they have even less bullet proof vehicles than India. And their vehicles have been blown up by mines many many times. Sometimes they have lost even more than a dozen men in such attacks.

There are ways to respond to such attacks. If orchestrated by Pakistan and its Army/ISI then this forum has seen multiple suggestions by members to dramatically raise the cost for the Pakistanis. Both open and covert options are available. I will not repeat the same.

On the other hand if the attack was carried out by one of the bigger powers then also some sort of costs should be imposed on the aggressor.

This is not the first such attack or the last. We will see repeated occurances.
It would be desirable to discuss on the merits of the issue without going overtly political. After all the Army belongs to all the political parties and the Indian Public at large.
 

ezsasa

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hypothetically speaking without getting into political issues, what if all population clusters (big and small) are depopulated along 35 km strip (arty range from other side) from LOC, and make it civilian free, and give complete control to security forces, will this not give more tactical freedom to control jihadi infiltration menace?
 

Jimih

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hypothetically speaking without getting into political issues, what if all population clusters (big and small) are depopulated along 35 km strip (arty range from other side) from LOC, and make it civilian free, and give complete control to security forces, will this not give more tactical freedom to control jihadi infiltration menace?
This is the last thing IA and GoI should be aiming for, i.e. is Buffer Zones within our own territory.
 

Jimih

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I’ve spoken to a couple of US military veterans and they said they’d always seek out the Pak/BD officer messes (even though these guys weren’t officers but apparently their white skin bought them entry) when they were on UN deployments or elsewhere- they’d be treated like gods, full 3 course meals with silverware waited on by junior ranks etc etc
Why Amreeki GI Joes wouldn't seek out the Pak/BD officer messes?

Amreeki knows.

Screenshot_20221107-200322.jpg
 

Innocent

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So search is still on the way. What are the chances that they escaped, zero casualities on their end AFIAK. Also don't we have any temporary fortification for blocking the road etc? Why are jawans standing without any covers?
 

Covfefe

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hypothetically speaking without getting into political issues, what if all population clusters (big and small) are depopulated along 35 km strip (arty range from other side) from LOC, and make it civilian free, and give complete control to security forces, will this not give more tactical freedom to control jihadi infiltration menace?
This is the last thing IA and GoI should be aiming for, i.e. is Buffer Zones within our own territory.
North gaza type demilitarized depopulated zone in PoK is the only sub-nuclear option

But we have travelled in a different direction for years now. Every 5 year validity government thinks that as long as medium term peace is possible at lesser costs, let's go for it- be it Atal ji, Mamaji aur Gobiji
 

Azaad

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This is called speaking to Paxtanis in a language they understand. Ditto for the situation between Hamas & the IDF. The Congress knows this language but seldom used it. Modi speaks to the Paxtanis MOSTLY in such a language. It's one of reasons we don't see the kind of outrages which were common place during the UPA years.

Now we've to see , if we can speak the same language with the Chinese. They're the Godzilla version of Paxtan. That's the only language they understand as well & unless you speak to them in this language they'd keep coming back in increasing strength.
 

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