India Pakistan conflict along IB and LoC (July 2021 onwards)

[Jimih]

our troops are walking into same pattern of ambushes, how much of a difference equipments can do here possibly

Yup, this is the very design going on in this sector for last 3 years:

* First an ambush by them on our COIN troops.
* Then a chase by us.
* Then the final ambush by them on our SF troopers who got lured into the process.

And the cycle continues.

 

[Jimih]

aroor shared it 2hrs ago
and the handle in question shared it 4 hrs ago.
how did he/she got hold of this; only god knows

Telegram most probably.

But then also, why to post Pakistani quoted data here?

 

[vidhwanshak]

Telegram most probably.

But then also, why to post Pakistani data?

yeah
paki twitter posts shouldn't be shared; can't allow them to earn more money through us.

 

[abingdonboy]

Imo 99% of you guys are wrong

The issue is not with equipments but problem with military leadership, operational acume at tactical level and abject failure to learn from past mistakes and evolve

Last fews months jihadis have outplayed our officers multiple times , baiting them successfully at ambush site itself or onroute to reported location etc yet no one in the army seems to have learnt their lessons

They rush to reported areas of concern seemingly without sanitizing the route itself, do they think terrorists are that dumb that they will keep playing by any set rules and not innovate

If government were to provide tanks to move troops to reported location, even then given the way terrorists are outplaying the army they will negate the tanks with appropriate weapons

The onus lies with military and police solely

And matter of fact one doesn't fight enemies inside own house they fight and eliminate them in their houses, so why military and govt not being proactive is my only concern. We should every month strike across border to keep their heads down , raise the costs at their side so that we don't end up fighting inside own house

If we end up fighting inside own house , even with alien type weapons and protection we will suffer casualties, that's given because of proximity, which reveals vulnerability

Enemy is always proactive, they learn , thet get instructed , they get help from both outside and inside so only best way to fight them is inside their houses and deter them from coming in

Long story short sole responsibility imo is on army / police , they are not upto the task , they are not evolving nor learning from their mistakes. Jihadis are out playing them most of the times

Seriously people are talking about jetpack etc , bring in space ship even than nothing with change, if one can't run operations intelligently one step ahead of the enemy

This is part of the same issue

equipment/tactical deficiencies all stem because this institution does not learn nor apply lessons and haphazardly performs operations- the root cause is the issue.

this all comes down to ethos, training (or lack thereof) and mindset. Listen to officer cadets of the IA, they are more British and aristocratic than the British aristocrats today. They think they are old world British gentlemen not warriors

say what you will about the Americans but they’ve created a damn fine fighting culture- look at my old comments in this matter specifically about Kevin owens who has served in the Irish (based on British mil systems) and US armies. The British/Indian officer culture is toxic- 3 different classes of mess/accommodation/allowances and a dependence on top down leadership not ground level NCO led initiative

What does this say about the Indian military? Piss poor equipment led poorly, paper tiger of the highest order. No wonder the civil leadership is so adverse to using them for any external contingencies. They can’t even get the basics right

 

[porky_kicker]

This is part of the same issue

equipment/tactical deficiencies all stem because this institution does not learn nor apply lessons and haphazardly performs operations- the root cause is the issue.

this all comes down to ethos, training (or lack thereof) and mindset. Listen to officer cadets of the IA, they are more British and aristocratic than the British aristocrats today. They think they are old world British gentlemen not warriors

say what you will about the Americans but they’ve created a damn fine fighting culture- look at my old comments in this matter specifically about Kevin owens who has served in the Irish (based on British mil systems) and US armies. The British/Indian officer culture is toxic- 3 different classes of mess/accommodation/allowances and a dependence on top down leadership not ground level NCO led initiative

What does this say about the Indian military? Piss poor equipment led poorly, paper tiger of the highest order. No wonder the civil leadership is so adverse to using them for any external contingencies. They can’t even get the basics right

3/4 years ago a south African army guy used to visit officers mess of an IA UN deployment, you should have listened to what he said to say

 

[Kumaoni]

This is part of the same issue

equipment/tactical deficiencies all stem because this institution does not learn nor apply lessons and haphazardly performs operations- the root cause is the issue.

this all comes down to ethos, training (or lack thereof) and mindset. Listen to officer cadets of the IA, they are more British and aristocratic than the British aristocrats today. They think they are old world British gentlemen not warriors

say what you will about the Americans but they’ve created a damn fine fighting culture- look at my old comments in this matter specifically about Kevin owens who has served in the Irish (based on British mil systems) and US armies. The British/Indian officer culture is toxic- 3 different classes of mess/accommodation/allowances and a dependence on top down leadership not ground level NCO led initiative

What does this say about the Indian military? Piss poor equipment led poorly, paper tiger of the highest order. No wonder the civil leadership is so adverse to using them for any external contingencies. They can’t even get the basics right

Lol the US officer culture is why many JROTC and ROTC members drop out.

 

[zathura98]

Now promoting Pakistani OSINT handle's propaganda?

You are really into casualty lists all this time on DFI.

I have noticed this multiple times.

lol porkies sharing our casualty list , their casualty list would be weekly magazine which later could be used to wipe their asses coz that's what their soldiers life is to them

 

[Kumaoni]

All these literature no point bro

Bhai mere one can bring in 1000 issues into the mix and not see the elephant in the room

The troops were ambushed onroute , what equipments would have saved them ? Given that terrorists would have accounted/prepared for the same

Why was the route not sanitized ? , ponder on that , see the connection between past incidents, our troops are walking into same pattern of ambushes, how much of a difference equipments can do here possibly ? Maybe APC would have saved them today , tomorrow if they keeping embarking on unsanitized routes , jihadis will bring in AT mines or AT rpgs , then what ?

Except for drones which seems not to be deployed ahead of conveys, responders , ironically the one thing that can detect ambush in waiting seems not to be in use

I am done , thank you

I strongly beleive that the recent ambush and the one in Kokernag were IA doing peacetime and civil duties (ie win hearts of people junk). Causing them to let their gaurd down. Coupled with the fact that Rajouri has been largely dormant until 2023 after 2005, you have the recipe for disaster.

 

[abingdonboy]

Lol the US officer culture is why many JROTC and ROTC members drop out.

Officer elitism issues seem to pervade everywhere but the US seems to have the flattest hierarchy gradient and NCOs run their army. The officer issue seems worse in the USAF/USN but the US army seems to have a very strong grasp on it, you have warrant officers flying their aviation assets (this is the domain of commissioned officers pretty much in every other military) and team Sargents are the backbone of their SF teams. You also find the most upward mobility (non-commissioned getting their commissions) of anywhere in the world in the US military, I think I’ve heard of this a handful of times in India

 

[Kumaoni]

Officer elitism issues seem to pervade everywhere but the US seems to have the flattest hierarchy gradient and NCOs run their army. The officer issue seems worse in the USAF/USN but the US army seems to have a very strong grasp on it, you have warrant officers flying their aviation assets (this is the domain of commissioned officers pretty much in every other military) and team Sargents are the backbone of their SF teams. You also find the most upward mobility (non-commissioned getting their commissions) of anywhere in the world in the US military, I think I’ve heard of this a handful of times in India

Oh yeah i’m not denying that NCOs are more respected in the US army but that their officer culture is also rather rotten. Not to mention half of the time they are heavily out of shape. Believe me, NCOs are the saving grace of USARM

 

[abingdonboy]

Oh yeah i’m not denying that NCOs are more respected in the US army but that their officer culture is also rather rotten. Not to mention half of the time they are heavily out of shape. Believe me, NCOs are the saving grace of USARM

But that’s by design- NCOs are meant to be the tactical leadership and glue that holds together a military, the same issues that face US officers will face IA officers just to a much lesser degree- not only is it a attitude problem but just the nature of the job; they’ll have to constantly be changing jobs, going on new postings, going to higher education schools etc etc whilst the NCOs can spend most of their careers in a single unit working their way up the ranks and soaking in the experiences

yet in the IA you have this toxic officer leads from the front mentality and the officer is above everyone else despite the fact that often they’ll have the least experience of anyone, the results are inevitable.

this also contributes to why lessons are rarely learned-as Officers rank up and move on so does any experience with them

one of the biggest talking points after gulf war 1 was the collapse of the Iraqi army was because they didn’t have a empowered or capable NCO culture

 

[zathura98]

now think how much death gratuity they will pay for 4-5 deads, that money could have bought 2 LSV or other armoured car with mounted guns.

this reminds me of the fact that this is same army that used to bomb the whole house in kashmir ops to kill terrorists and save casualty on our side to avoid death gratuity and paid lesser 10-15lacs for compensation to owner. To me that was great thinking why don't we use "that baniya mind" anymore.

 

[abingdonboy]

3/4 years ago a south African army guy used to visit officers mess of an IA UN deployment, you should have listened to what he said to say

I’ve spoken to a couple of US military veterans and they said they’d always seek out the Pak/BD officer messes (even though these guys weren’t officers but apparently their white skin bought them entry) when they were on UN deployments or elsewhere- they’d be treated like gods, full 3 course meals with silverware waited on by junior ranks etc etc

 

[zathura98]

I’ve spoken to a couple of US military veterans and they said they’d always seek out the Pak/BD officer messes (even though these guys weren’t officers but apparently their white skin bought them entry) when they were on UN deployments or elsewhere- they’d be treated like gods, full 3 course meals with silverware waited on by junior ranks etc etc

whole subcontinent has same mindset , british indian army officers were mainly whites and treated indians as servants so they followed that savagery , why after independence we are continuing that is pure stupidity. Anyways it will take a whole bunch of higher ranking officers with little empathy to change these mindsets , so it's never gonna change.

 

[abingdonboy]

whole subcontinent has same mindset , british indian army officers were mainly whites and treated indians as servants so they followed that savagery , why after independence we are continuing that is pure stupidity. Anyways it will take a whole bunch of higher ranking officers with little empathy to change these mindsets , so it's never gonna change.

Who would change the system if they’ve been brought up in it? Ask why Indian officers carry swagger sticks or have batmen and you won’t get a satisfactory answer other than ‘tradition’. If Modi tries to get any sort of reforms going he is hit by all sides as politicising the military, the theatre commands have been under discussion for almost a decade and even now they are going back to square one and the IA is said to be the biggest opponents

OROP, Agniveer etc you get the veteran community bashing the govt of the day in public which is very damaging politically

civilian and military leadership simply don’t want change badly enough and don’t want to do the hard work that it’ll take to transform this behemoth so you’ll only ever get incremental moves

 

[MIDKNIGHT FENERIR-00]

aroor shared it 2hrs ago
and the handle in question shared it 4 hrs ago.
how did he/she got hold of this; only god knows

A lot of so called kashmiri “journalists” are walking around the encounter sites looking to take pictures of Indian army in compromising positions. These vultures are also rummaging through hospitals looking for how many Indian soldiers attained veeragati in an operation. It is my belief that majority so called Kashmiri “journalists” are terrorist overground workers whose main job is scout out and verify Indian operations and casualties. They are perfect for the job.

 

[iNorthernerOn9]

As I had posted yesterday observing the blood pattern on left side of the gypsy... that beheading has been attempted or done... now confirmed

 

[zathura98]

A lot of so called kashmiri “journalists” are walking around the encounter sites looking to take pictures of Indian army in compromising positions. These vultures are also rummaging through hospitals looking for how many Indian soldiers attained veeragati in an operation. It is my belief that majority so called Kashmiri “journalists” are terrorist overground workers whose main job is scout out and verify Indian operations and casualties. They are perfect for the job.

lol , people still believing kashmiris will ever support india. mark my words they see nothing above their religion and will never support india. We should keep giving them Ga** pe laat every now and then , no pyaar mohabbat.

 

[ChandraSingh]

As I had posted yesterday observing the blood pattern on left side of the gypsy... that beheading has been attempted or done... now confirmed

No terrorist was injured in "hand to hand" combat? If the 4 KIA and 3 injured are from the same incident, it is possible that PAFF also took losses. This incident is another blot on IA. But who cares?

 

[ChandraSingh]

8 baj gaya... sab So raha hai abhi tak?

It seems army top brass is in perennial coma.