India Pakistan conflict along IB and LoC (July 2021 onwards)

[another_armchair]

These problems have been solved by other special forces. See videos earlier. Mexico developed their own light weight gun for jungle warfare. I don’t think you are getting it. Members are saying that IA must have top notch training and also go hi-tech. I don’t even see a canine squad.
You and singhboy98 are basically saying brute force is the solution. Won’t work. Terrorists are arming themselves with more sophisticated weapons and training tactics. This is not your regular military op but a special forces op. Completely different.
‘If you don’t believe in technology why don’t we go back to .404 rifles and have 1000 RR soldiers saturate the area?

Where did I say 'brute force' is the solution?

Why make so many assumptions on my behalf over scenarios I neither said nor implied.

 

[The Shrike]

Itne se phat gayi.. ? and guys want pok..
India held G20 meeting in Arunchal.. and China skipped.. India will hold G20 meeting in Srinagar..Pakistan will kill 20 IA soldiers.. So.. what ? We are making a statement here.. We are laying out terms of engagement to China and Pakistan..
And such messages need to be repeated as often as possible..

China skips G20 meeting in Arunachal Pradesh

The event is among the 200 meetings in over 50 major cities across India across 32 different work streams. The theme of the G20 meeting in Itanagar is 'Research, innovation initiative, gathering', and it is being organised by the state science & technology department.

www.google.com

Ok so I had to go through multiple news articles to figure out what exactly is scheduled in Srinagar - turns out it is "Working Group of Tourism" - and I was under the impression it was heads of state meeting

 

[Tactical Doge]

2 km durr ki baat hai, inka gucci gear pehen ke 200 m cover kar liya to badi baat hogi.

PC with armor, 6 mags, primary weapon, secondary weapon, sundry other critical items... taking every 20 steps with that load out would be a challenge... 2 km tak gaand phat ke darwaja ho jana hai aadhe keyboard warriors ka.

Literally every single SF unit that does LRRP on foot are idiots then

"They are equipped so not because they have shiiet gear, because due to XYZ mental gymnastics reason"

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Where did I say 'brute force' is the solution?

Why make so many assumptions on my behalf over scenarios I neither said nor implied.

Ok. I thought you agreed with singhboy98. Chalo, koi baath nahi. We all want our special forces/foot soldiers to be at the best hi-tech level with networked warfare capabilities. The point is like other members said we spend a lot of money on defense R&D, but the future combat soldier concept is not being taken seriously by the Army or they are not moving fast enough to gear up the foot soldiers and supporting ground equipment including power generators etc for remote locations. Many armies have started using exoskeletons to increase the capabilities of soldiers to lift heavy things, move fast in difficult terrain etc. I am not seeing the future infantry combat system program progress at all.

 

[another_armchair]

Literally every single SF unit that does LRRP on foot are idiots then

"They are equipped so not because they have shiiet gear, because due to XYZ mental gymnastics reason"

yea, in similar conditions as ours.

#TheekHai

 

[ezsasa]

I just think the upper brass should be as intelligent as YOs.

i am sure everyone has bright ideas. it's the nature of this communication format, it takes years for dopamine effect to wear off and folks start to have a non-rhetorical non-hyperbolic conversation. i am sure in the beginning i too wrote posts on the forum alluding that professionals do not know how to do their jobs, these days i have come the conclusion that there is much more i donno than i know about in this complex world.

and the topic on this thread is such that it has been going on for seven decades before us, and we don't know how many more decades this will go on after us. it's natural for people to get anxious about future unknown.

i just hope that the realisation comes faster that, it's not the individual events that are troublesome, it's the nature of the scenario itself that is complex because of choices made in the past. the time frames of every small step forward is almost a decade long not even year by year or incident by incident.

if the idea is to do assessments and give certificates, it can only be done for past events that too with limited accuracy, not ongoing events.

 

[another_armchair]

Ok. I thought you agreed with singhboy98. Chalo, koi baath nahi. We all want our special forces/foot soldiers to be at the best hi-tech level with networked warfare capabilities. The point is like other members said we spend a lot of money on defense R&D, but the future combat soldier concept is not being taken seriously by the Army or they are not moving fast enough to gear up the foot soldiers and supporting ground equipment including power generators etc for remote locations. Many armies have started using exoskeletons to increase the capabilities of soldiers to lift heavy things, move fast in difficult terrain etc. I am not seeing the future infantry combat system program progress at all.

You know the situation we are in when news of procurement of low key items such as SiG rifles, Negev LMGs leads to euphoric celebrations among forum members, me included.

If only griping would lead to overnight modernisation of IA particularly of its infantry units.

 

[another_armchair]

Top notch technology should've helped them identify their own but they almost ended up getting killed in friendly fire.

Those vests should've made them practically invincible to enemy bullets, armour piercing ammo but... pata nahi, shit happened vro.

 

[TopWatcher]

Itne se phat gayi.. ? and guys want pok..
India held G20 meeting in Arunchal.. and China skipped.. India will hold G20 meeting in Srinagar..Pakistan will kill 20 IA soldiers.. So.. what ? We are making a statement here.. We are laying out terms of engagement to China and Pakistan..
And such messages need to be repeated as often as possible..

China skips G20 meeting in Arunachal Pradesh

The event is among the 200 meetings in over 50 major cities across India across 32 different work streams. The theme of the G20 meeting in Itanagar is 'Research, innovation initiative, gathering', and it is being organised by the state science & technology department.

www.google.com

This has to be made, isme koi shaaq nhi. What we discussing lathargic nature of our babus.

 

[Physx32]

1.) Step outside your room and visit Kashmir for once. DRONES WON'T WORK. This has been repeated ad nauseam on this thread over many years. The foliage is too damn thick. And you are talking about deploying MALE drones to support ops in a super dense Montane Forest? Are you 13 years old?

2.) Why non-lethal ones. I am all for Agent Orange'ing these swines. But to do that, you have to get them first. Which is when we sustain casualties.

For those members who are not familiar with how these things work, the OGWs of these terrorists have made numerous weapon/ammo/resupply hideouts in these forests over a long period of time. The infiltrating group has a clear cut strategy as to how to mount attacks using which hideout and the relevant fall back positions or exfio routes. That is why these ops stretch on for months on end.

There is NO solution to this problem save for the extreme one. Like a certain Brigadier Pratap said, it is about the Qaum. The sooner we get ourselves out the of the delusions of the good/bad type, the better of we will be.

You're are stuck in the past century. Things like drone mounted foliage penetrating SAR exist. Just sending human waves in broad daylight won't work.

 

[FalconSlayers]

 

[singhboy98]

You're are stuck in the past century. Things like drone mounted foliage penetrating SAR exist. Just sending human waves in broad daylight won't work.

Nope. Nothing of what you mentioned will work on the specific use case of the Rajouri jungles. Lighting up the general area with 155mm artillery will produce better, quicker and more cost effective results than anything that has been proposed by brochure warriors on this thread so far.

 

[ezsasa]

You're are stuck in the past century. Things like drone mounted foliage penetrating SAR exist. Just sending human waves in broad daylight won't work.

even if we assume MALE drones with SAR is a possibility in pir panjal range.

pakis have the heights, we have the slopes, there is about 10,000 ft gap between drone max height and their posts. a drone might get away a few times, pakis can always have a counter strategy next time dedicated to take out drones. without a full fledged military conflict, those posts cannot be taken out.

paki posts (subject to correction on altitude of their posts)

counter argument can be doing nothing is also not helping.

to sum up, if a new tactic is developed, there will be a counter tactic that will be developed. the question is whether IA should show their cards during prolonged counter insurgency or during their primary role of defending sovereignty.

 

[mokoman]

even if we assume MALE drones with SAR is a possibility in pir panjal range.

pakis have the heights, we have the slopes, there is about 10,000 ft gap between drone max height and their posts. a drone might get away a few times, pakis can always have a counter strategy next time dedicated to take out drones. without a full fledged military conflict, those posts cannot be taken out.

paki posts (subject to correction on altitude of their posts)

counter argument can be doing nothing is also not helping.

to sum up, if a new tactic is developed, there will be a counter tactic that will be developed. the question is whether IA should show their cards during prolonged counter insurgency or during their primary role of defending sovereignty.

he is talking about encounter area , which is 40km from loc . whole hill area is ours.

someone posted link of a small drone with sar which can spot vehicles and people . imho these can be helpfull in search

 

[Cheran]

Same shit, another name

Jabbaaz Force is led by a Pakistani army veteran who also participated in the 1998 Kargil war

 

[Physx32]

even if we assume MALE drones with SAR is a possibility in pir panjal range.

pakis have the heights, we have the slopes, there is about 10,000 ft gap between drone max height and their posts. a drone might get away a few times, pakis can always have a counter strategy next time dedicated to take out drones. without a full fledged military conflict, those posts cannot be taken out.

paki posts (subject to correction on altitude of their posts)

counter argument can be doing nothing is also not helping.

to sum up, if a new tactic is developed, there will be a counter tactic that will be developed. the question is whether IA should show their cards during prolonged counter insurgency or during their primary role of defending sovereignty.

Tactics could be like this:

• Use SAR on MALE drone to get the location of tangos in high res. However, this won't be real time. And multiple passes will be required (dependent on existing intel and FOV of radar).
• Send quadcopters equipped FLIR and low power foliage penetrating radar to get real time info.
• Light up that area with arty (or any other tactic suitable for the exact location).
• These operations need to be done at night so that tangos have the least visual advantage.
• Send foot soldiers to do remaining clean up.

The only thing that has changed is that we know where tangos are hiding. If they're hiding in caves, same thing can be done but with ground penetrating SAR.

Edit: I was talking about the tangos hiding in Kandi, not Pak army posts.

 

[Physx32]

Nope. Nothing of what you mentioned will work on the specific use case of the Rajouri jungles.

Why won't they work? Just because you "believe"?

Lighting up the general area with 155mm artillery will produce better, quicker and more cost effective results than anything that has been proposed by brochure warriors on this thread so far.

Sub 82 IQ take. You want to light an entire mountain without knowing where they hide lol.

 

[another_armchair]

Use of Arty on Indian territory in an area sparsely populated by civilians?

Approval for such use would be hard to come by.

What is approved for field use in J&K?

CG's and Shmels.

It is up to DRDO/IA/Whosoever to design a drone that can deliver CG and Shmel rounds accurately.

That will solve half our problems of delivering asla-barood in good quantity from a safe standoff distance without burning up a years budget on something uber hi-fi and expensive.

A swarm of 4-6 drones raining round after round will disorient any 72 seeking mothafokka if not roast him.

 

[ezsasa]

Tactics could be like this:

• Use SAR on MALE drone to get the location of tangos in high res. However, this won't be real time. And multiple passes will be required (dependent on existing intel and FOV of radar).
• Send quadcopters equipped FLIR and low power foliage penetrating radar to get real time info.
• Light up that area with arty (or any other tactic suitable for the exact location).
• These operations need to be done at night so that tangos have the least visual advantage.
• Send foot soldiers to do remaining clean up.

The only thing that has changed is that we know where tangos are hiding. If they're hiding in caves, same thing can be done but with ground penetrating SAR.

Edit: I was talking about the tangos hiding in Kandi, not Pak army posts.

in the recent high altitude drones(logistic drones if i remember correctly) RFI, was 12000 ft the minimum altitude specified or maximum?

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Nope. Nothing of what you mentioned will work on the specific use case of the Rajouri jungles. Lighting up the general area with 155mm artillery will produce better, quicker and more cost effective results than anything that has been proposed by brochure warriors on this thread so far.

You will have to carpet bomb the entire forest, small homes within forest area, etc without any localization of targets. Such loud noise and carpet bombing will set back government’s agenda in J&K, and the end of tourism there as every 2 bit news media will declare J&K as a war zone. No G20, no tourism nothing. If this tactic was effective IDF would have bombed entire Lebanese forests to get rid of the hiding hezbollahs. Carpet bombing is just wishful thinking.