India Pakistan conflict along IB and LoC (July 2021 onwards)

[patriots]

Instead, let me ask, how will Pakistani UCAVs pose a threat to us ?

A uav was able to drop an explosive in an air force hangar

The ucavs can sneak anytime they want

 

[Master Chief]

A uav was able to drop an explosive in an air force hangar

The ucavs can sneak anytime they want

That was a small quadcopter..
UCAVs are much bigger and are an easier target for our AD networks..
Nevertheless, we need UCAVs .. once we establish air dominance against Pakis.. or even local air dominance.. we can use them instead of costly Aircraft..

 

[mist_consecutive]

A uav was able to drop an explosive in an air force hangar

The ucavs can sneak anytime they want

If you are talking about quadcopters/hexacopters carrying grenades/mortars as we see in Ukraine, yes, they definitely pose a challenge. Hopefully, we are acquiring large numbers of drone jammers and anti-drone guns, and we also have in-house manufacturing capabilities for this equipment.

But by UCAVs, I think you meant larger, MALE drones like TB2 and Akinci. They are big, slow, and not stealthy like quadcopters. They are easy to pick up on the radar and neutralize, either by A2A or A2G weaponry.

 

[another_armchair]

It was known at the time that there was a request for air transport authorization for CRPF.. but BABUS being babus don't act until sh*t hits the fan.. Doesn't absolve Modi Gov. Of negligence.. but Pakistan is the cause of the attack. And Modi government was successful in driving the narrative at the time. That's all that matters.. This motu ram satyapal Malik creates some ripples from time to time, which excites the opposition, but does nothing to sway neutral voters..

Avoid regurgitating Satyapal Malik's half assed propaganda. He is a politician and his statements to Karan Thapar of ALL people should be taken with a truck load of salt.

Convoy movement by road has been going on for decades. Nothing new.

Mufti’s ‘human touch’ policy led to easing of convoy rules | India News - Times of India

India News: NEW DELHI: The norms for security convoy movement in J&K were relaxed when the Mufti Mohammad Sayeed-led PDP-Congress coalition government was in offi.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Until 2002-03, security convoys moved in a box, with civilian traffic kept off the highway while the security vehicles passed. A pilot vehicle accompanying the convoy would continuously intercept civilian vehicles approaching the highway and shoo them off.
The Sayeed government insisted that this “harassment” of civilians in the name of securing convoys be ended. The Centre, agreeing with Sayeed’s “healing touch” approach, agreed to remove the restrictions.

2002 Jammu and Kashmir Legislative Assembly election - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Jammu & Kashmir National Conference was the single largest party but lacked majority. The Jammu and Kashmir People's Democratic Party (PDP) and the Indian National Congress (Congress) formed a coalition government with PDP's Mufti Mohammad Sayeed serving as the Chief Minister for the first three years and Congress's Ghulam Nabi Azad for the next three years.

If at all there was a lapse, it was because of allowing civilian traffic during convoy movement.

Yes, the explosives laden car slipped through during Narendra Modi's tenure as PM, just as Kasab & Co rafted into Mumbai, waltzed into 5 star hotels and went bang bang bang probably because someone stopped them for not wearing socks with their shoes. Never mind.

The response from UPA to 26/11 and the response by NDA to Pulwama was for the world to see.

When was the last time our jets crossed the IB/LoC in retaliation to a terror attack?

Worse, people called it political grandstanding.

No, people didn't vote for NaMo/BJP because of Balakot. I hope that myth peddled for years is put to rest.

 

[Master Chief]

Avoid regurgitating Satyapal Malik's half assed propaganda. He is a politician and his statements to Karan Thapar of ALL people should be taken with a truck load of salt.

Convoy movement by road has been going on for decades. Nothing new.

Mufti’s ‘human touch’ policy led to easing of convoy rules | India News - Times of India

India News: NEW DELHI: The norms for security convoy movement in J&K were relaxed when the Mufti Mohammad Sayeed-led PDP-Congress coalition government was in offi.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

2002 Jammu and Kashmir Legislative Assembly election - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If at all there was a lapse, it was because of allowing civilian traffic during convoy movement.

Yes, the explosives laden car slipped through during Narendra Modi's tenure as PM, just as Kasab & Co rafted into Mumbai, waltzed into 5 star hotels and went bang bang bang probably because someone stopped them for not wearing socks with their shoes. Never mind.

The response from UPA to 26/11 and the response by NDA to Pulwama was for the world to see.

When was the last time our jets crossed the IB/LoC in retaliation to a terror attack?

Worse, people called it political grandstanding.

No, people didn't vote for NaMo/BJP because of Balakot. I hope that myth peddled for years is put to rest.

Although the primary blame rests on Pakistan; Just as Manmohan government cannot avoid some blame over lapses during 26/11.. Modi Gov. Cannot avoid some blame for Pulwama.. as it happened during Governor's rule in J and K
The convoy was very long compared to normal at 78 vehicles with around 2500 personnel.. And it was true that a request for aircraft was made.. A shorter convoy would have provided a much shorter window for any terrorist attack.. Well.. just like after 26/11 lessons have been learnt..

Convoys to Kashmir can’t be stopped even if aircraft are available, top CRPF officers say

CRPF officer says nearly 4,000 personnel needed to be moved from Jammu to Srinagar due to a backlog caused by weather. Not all could’ve gone by aircraft.

www.google.com

 

[another_armchair]

Although the primary blame rests on Pakistan; Just as Manmohan government cannot avoid some blame over lapses during 26/11.. Modi Gov. Cannot avoid some blame for Pulwama.. as it happened during Governor's rule in J and K
The convoy was very long compared to normal at 78 vehicles with around 2500 personnel.. And it was true that a request for aircraft was made.. A shorter convoy would have provided a much shorter window for any terrorist attack.. Well.. just like after 26/11 lessons have been learnt..

Convoys to Kashmir can’t be stopped even if aircraft are available, top CRPF officers say

CRPF officer says nearly 4,000 personnel needed to be moved from Jammu to Srinagar due to a backlog caused by weather. Not all could’ve gone by aircraft.

www.google.com

Adil Dar had the first mover advantage.

Was there intelligence failure/slip up. Definitely appears so. Just as intelligence failures and poor SOP's have resulted in casualties during ops after Pulwama too.

If you recollect, VBIEDs were attempted after Pulwama too without causing as much damage as the Pulwama bombing.

Risk of VBIED's is bound to be higher if civilian vehicles are allowed to mingle with military convoys in a conflict zone. Plenty of examples from Iraq, Afghanistan.

Disallowing civilian vehicle movement would've negated/mitigated the risk and Adil & Co may have been forced to pick a different plan. Too bad that wasn't the case.

When are we going to see a similar tune on Galwan from the same worthies?
Soon I guess.

 

[Jimih]

Although the primary blame rests on Pakistan; Just as Manmohan government cannot avoid some blame over lapses during 26/11.. Modi Gov. Cannot avoid some blame for Pulwama.. as it happened during Governor's rule in J and K
The convoy was very long compared to normal at 78 vehicles with around 2500 personnel.. And it was true that a request for aircraft was made.. A shorter convoy would have provided a much shorter window for any terrorist attack.. Well.. just like after 26/11 lessons have been learnt..

Transport ke liye aircrafts ki jarurat hi nahi hain.

All you need is armed chopper/s escorting the convoy from above and minesweepers in some cases.

This is the SOP being followed all over the Western world during troops movement.

Well of CAPFs only BSF has a dedicated air wing.

There was a serious lapse during the Pulwama incident and no the request for aircraft transport was not the only factor.

 

[patriots]

If you are talking about quadcopters/hexacopters carrying grenades/mortars as we see in Ukraine, yes, they definitely pose a challenge. Hopefully, we are acquiring large numbers of drone jammers and anti-drone guns, and we also have in-house manufacturing capabilities for this equipment.

But by UCAVs, I think you meant larger, MALE drones like TB2 and Akinci. They are big, slow, and not stealthy like quadcopters. They are easy to pick up on the radar and neutralize, either by A2A or A2G weaponry.

Is it possible to cover the entire area with air defense system s
A much larger uav also can sneak
The advantage UAVs has the small size ,the radars will detect them late

The disadvantage is their slow speed , the ads will have enough time to react

 

[mist_consecutive]

Is it possible to cover the entire area with air defense system s
A much larger uav also can sneak
The advantage UAVs has the small size ,the radars will detect them late

The disadvantage is their slow speed , the ads will have enough time to react

Not really. On our western borders, we have 100% radar coverage, and we can comfortably pick up micro-size drones if they fly high.

For e.g., small drones of the size of American ScanEagle can be easily detected and neutralized.

Pakistan drone shot down in Kutch | Ahmedabad News - Times of India

AHMEDABAD: A Pakistani unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) was shot down by the Indian Air Force early on Tuesday morning on the outskirts of Nundhatad vill.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

TB2 and bigger drones are easy targets. It is pretty evident from Ukraine war itself, all TB2s got shot down in no time when Russian ADs got activated.

 

[AnantS]

Not really. On our western borders, we have 100% radar coverage, and we can comfortably pick up micro-size drones if they fly high.

For e.g., small drones of the size of American ScanEagle can be easily detected and neutralized.

Pakistan drone shot down in Kutch | Ahmedabad News - Times of India

AHMEDABAD: A Pakistani unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) was shot down by the Indian Air Force early on Tuesday morning on the outskirts of Nundhatad vill.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

TB2 and bigger drones are easy targets. It is pretty evident from Ukraine war itself, all TB2s got shot down in no time when Russian ADs got activated.

I doubt that. Given almost routine arms and drugs drops from UAV from Pakis side to Indian side. It seems we would need another fence in form of low level radars and anti aircaft guns slaves to them. Otherwise its matter of time when we shall see tangos jumping fence using large enough uavs

 

[Master Chief]

Adil Dar had the first mover advantage.

Was there intelligence failure/slip up. Definitely appears so. Just as intelligence failures and poor SOP's have resulted in casualties during ops after Pulwama too.

If you recollect, VBIEDs were attempted after Pulwama too without causing as much damage as the Pulwama bombing.

Risk of VBIED's is bound to be higher if civilian vehicles are allowed to mingle with military convoys in a conflict zone. Plenty of examples from Iraq, Afghanistan.

Disallowing civilian vehicle movement would've negated/mitigated the risk and Adil & Co may have been forced to pick a different plan. Too bad that wasn't the case.

When are we going to see a similar tune on Galwan from the same worthies?
Soon I guess.

I remember another attack after Pulwama that targeted a troop carrier.. but that troop carrier was armoured.. and although damaged personnel losses were avoided..

 

[Master Chief]

Not really. On our western borders, we have 100% radar coverage, and we can comfortably pick up micro-size drones if they fly high.

For e.g., small drones of the size of American ScanEagle can be easily detected and neutralized.

Pakistan drone shot down in Kutch | Ahmedabad News - Times of India

AHMEDABAD: A Pakistani unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) was shot down by the Indian Air Force early on Tuesday morning on the outskirts of Nundhatad vill.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

TB2 and bigger drones are easy targets. It is pretty evident from Ukraine war itself, all TB2s got shot down in no time when Russian ADs got activated.

TB2s were running amock in Ukraine, only during the initial montha of the war, when, to maximize their gains and take advantage of the element of surprise, Russian army did not follow their own doctrine of moving forward with AD cover, but instead dashed headlong without AD cover to maximize territorial gains..
Once the front stabilized and saturated with AD, Bayraktars started dropping like flies.. and are now mainly used for targetting and reconnaissance by Ukraine..

 

[Sanglamorre]

After Satya pal malik, Gen. Roychowdhury slams the intelligence failure. The General has been critical of seeking votes in the name of Balakot strikes.

PM Modi, NSA Doval Should Take Responsibility for Pulwama Attack: Former Indian Army Chief

PM Modi, NSA Doval Should Take Responsibility for Pulwama Attack: Former Indian Army Chief

General Shankar Roychowdhury said that large convoys moving along the national highway are always vulnerable to attack, adding that the area where the Pulwama terror attack had occurred had always been a very “vulnerable sector”.

thewire.in

"
General Roychowdhury also agreed with Malik’s statement that the terror attack was the result of an intelligence failure. Malik said that while the RDX, an explosive substance, which was used in the attack came from Pakistan, the fact that a car that was “roaming around” in Kashmir for days before the attack and could not be located was an intelligence and security system failure.

“It’s a slip-up that the government is trying to wash its hands of. I strongly believe that the troops should have been ferried across by aircraft, which are available with the civil aviation department, Air Force or BSF,” the former army chief told Telegraph, adding, “Failure has no claimants.”
"

You can feel '24 is coming close. They've started again

 

[skunk works]

You can feel '24 is coming close. They've started again

Bhajipao does have a very irritating habit of constantly crowing about it. If it didn't help them in the election as DFI claims here, I really hope they shut up about it and move on to more useful things.

Strikes have happened before, not of this scale and not airstrikes, but this wasn't some first time event. Resources are all available online, the teenagers must read them. The difference was politicians screaming SAARGIKAL STAAEEK day and night like a broken record.

 

[hit&run]

After Satya pal malik, Gen. Roychowdhury slams the intelligence failure. The General has been critical of seeking votes in the name of Balakot strikes.

PM Modi, NSA Doval Should Take Responsibility for Pulwama Attack: Former Indian Army Chief

PM Modi, NSA Doval Should Take Responsibility for Pulwama Attack: Former Indian Army Chief

General Shankar Roychowdhury said that large convoys moving along the national highway are always vulnerable to attack, adding that the area where the Pulwama terror attack had occurred had always been a very “vulnerable sector”.

thewire.in

"
General Roychowdhury also agreed with Malik’s statement that the terror attack was the result of an intelligence failure. Malik said that while the RDX, an explosive substance, which was used in the attack came from Pakistan, the fact that a car that was “roaming around” in Kashmir for days before the attack and could not be located was an intelligence and security system failure.

“It’s a slip-up that the government is trying to wash its hands of. I strongly believe that the troops should have been ferried across by aircraft, which are available with the civil aviation department, Air Force or BSF,” the former army chief told Telegraph, adding, “Failure has no claimants.”
"

There are hundreds of military vehicles roaming Kashmiri towns, suburbs and villages as we speak.

The Islamic terrorist targeted a random military truck on a routine logistical requirement of transporting CRPF personnel. It was a security failure on the intel level. But saying security can be provided for all those hundred trucks or buying armoured trucks for managing such a big logistical operation is just a fool's aspiration.

The responsibility is all on Modi and Doval unconditionally. But why does it has to be proclaimed to give narratives to the enemy state and compromised opposition to twist it?

 

[here2where]

Transport ke liye aircrafts ki jarurat hi nahi hain.

All you need is armed chopper/s escorting the convoy from above and minesweepers in some cases.

This is the SOP being followed all over the Western world during troops movement.

Well of CAPFs only BSF has a dedicated air wing.

There was a serious lapse during the Pulwama incident and no the request for aircraft transport was not the only factor.

Request for air transport was made based on multiple intelligence input of a possible vbied threat.

Surely it is not possible that no one knew a local youth was being readied for suicide bomber role inside a highly monitored war zone.

 

[here2where]

There are hundreds of military vehicles roaming Kashmiri towns, suburbs and villages as we speak.

The Islamic terrorist targeted a random military truck on a routine logistical requirement of transporting CRPF personnel. It was a security failure on the intel level. But saying security can be provided for all those hundred trucks or buying armoured trucks for managing such a big logistical operation is just a fool's aspiration.

The responsibility is all on Modi and Doval unconditionally. But why does it has to be proclaimed to give narratives to the enemy state and compromised opposition to twist it?

Yes calling it a security failure instead of intelligence failure will be more apt.

Based on the intelligence available air transport of 5 aircrafts was requisitioned and rejected by MHA.

Point is not about pak’s involvement, which is clear as daylight by supplying material and training. Pakistan cannot be absolved. It is about the denial of air transport for the large 2500+ soldiers that resulted in a risky long convoy on unsanitised route.

 

[another_armchair]

Was the letter from CRPF requesting for 5 aircrafts to airlift stranded troops shared by Malik or other(s)?

 

[another_armchair]

Yes calling it a security failure instead of intelligence failure will be more apt.

Based on the intelligence available air transport of 5 aircrafts was requisitioned and rejected by MHA.

Point is not about pak’s involvement, which is clear as daylight by supplying material and training. Pakistan cannot be absolved. It is about the denial of air transport for the large 2500+ soldiers that resulted in a risky long convoy on unsanitised route.

Could you back your claim with evidence that CRPF requested for 5 aircraft to transport troops based on inputs of an impending VBIED attack?

Thanks.

 

[another_armchair]

Convoys to Kashmir can’t be stopped even if aircraft are available, top CRPF officers say

CRPF officer says nearly 4,000 personnel needed to be moved from Jammu to Srinagar due to a backlog caused by weather. Not all could’ve gone by aircraft.

theprint.in

The leaked MHA letter
The controversy was sparked after a leaked letter from the home ministry, showed that the Border Security Force had written to it on 7 January this year, demanding the placement of two Mi-17 helicopters in Kashmir for two months to airlift stranded troops during the winter season.

The MHA replied saying that after consultations with the BSF’s Air Wing, it was felt that the stationing of two choppers for two months was not feasible. However, it had also stated that fresh proposals may be submitted for airlift through IAF aircraft as and when needed, which would be examined on a case-by-case basis.

Sources said that a chartered Air India aircraft is used every day to help central police forces posted in the state to fly to New Delhi on leave or transfer. The seats are distributed among all forces — CISF, BSF, ITBP and CRPF.

Weather a big factor
CRPF sources said 80 per cent of the personnel in the ill-fated convoy had come back from leave and were moving to Kashmir for their postings. The rest included some proceeding on leave, and a majority who were protecting the convoy. Sources said the movement of such a convoy was very normal.

“Usually, it is a convoy of about 40-50 vehicles, but this time, there were 78 because there was a backlog due to weather,” a source said.

Commercial flights in and out of Srinagar were also cancelled due to bad weather on a number of days this month.