India Pakistan conflict along IB and LoC (July 2021 onwards)

samsaptaka

तस्मात् उत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिष्चय
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2016
Messages
1,437
Likes
5,279
Country flag
What is the truth ? We will never know I guess...could all be an elaborate charade with everyone playing their part and media being taken for a ride. One wishes that were the case, but somehow given the utter lack of guts displayed by our political leadership, they would have never allowed such a strike. Or it could be that some 5-6 guys went rogue and really wanted to send one up porkies' ass, and were fed up with the coward attitude of GoI, so they sent this brahmos to prove that not much will happen except noise from porkies. Unfortunately GOI punished them instead of praising them ? All speculation
 

prasadr14

PrasadReddy
Senior Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
Messages
6,843
Likes
38,763
What is the truth ? We will never know I guess...could all be an elaborate charade with everyone playing their part and media being taken for a ride. One wishes that were the case, but somehow given the utter lack of guts displayed by our political leadership, they would have never allowed such a strike. Or it could be that some 5-6 guys went rogue and really wanted to send one up porkies' ass, and were fed up with the coward attitude of GoI, so they sent this brahmos to prove that not much will happen except noise from porkies. Unfortunately GOI punished them instead of praising them ? All speculation
If they indeed fire without approval from govt, no matter how chad that moved was, they deserve to get fired.

I am utterly grateful they did that but they absolutely deserved to get fired if they fired without permission.
 

Sanglamorre

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2019
Messages
4,321
Likes
19,346
Country flag
If they indeed fire without approval from govt, no matter how chad that moved was, they deserve to get fired.

I am utterly grateful they did that but they absolutely deserved to get fired if they fired without permission.
What will you do if tomorrow the GoI changed and the official order is to drop a brahmos on Hindus protesting about something?
 

prasadr14

PrasadReddy
Senior Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
Messages
6,843
Likes
38,763
What will you do if tomorrow the GoI changed and the official order is to drop a brahmos on Hindus protesting about something?
Ideally military should be an extension of govt that does what the govt asks at all point of time, as long as they are legal.

key word here is legal.

So, any legal order by govt must be followed by military without any question.
 

Tactical Doge

𝕱𝖔𝖔𝖑𝖘 𝖗𝖚𝖘𝖍 𝖆𝖓𝖉 𝖆𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑𝖘 𝖋𝖊𝖆𝖗
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2019
Messages
9,111
Likes
55,722
Country flag
If they indeed fire without approval from govt, no matter how chad that moved was, they deserve to get fired.

I am utterly grateful they did that but they absolutely deserved to get fired if they fired without permission.
"had to be fired" vs "deserved to be fired"
 

Sanglamorre

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2019
Messages
4,321
Likes
19,346
Country flag
Ideally military should be an extension of govt that does what the govt asks at all point of time, as long as they are legal.

key word here is legal.

So, any legal order by govt must be followed by military without any question.
In a tyrant govt, everything is legal. The orders will be legal on paper. Would your position still be the same?
 

prasadr14

PrasadReddy
Senior Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
Messages
6,843
Likes
38,763
In a tyrant govt, everything is legal. The orders will be legal on paper. Would your position still be the same?
Tyrant govt in Indian context?
Explain how....then we can continue this discussion.

Launching missiles must only be done after political leadership approves it.
The chain of command is non-negotiable.

Let me put it this way, if PM asks to launch a nuclear missile and local officers decide not to, what would be your response?
 

Sanglamorre

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2019
Messages
4,321
Likes
19,346
Country flag
Tyrant govt in Indian context?
Explain how....then we can continue this discussion.

Launching missiles must only be done after political leadership approves it.
The chain of command is non-negotiable.

Let me put it this way, if PM asks to launch a nuclear missile and local officers decide not to, what would be your response?
Tyrant govt such an anti Hindu, anti Indian govt. Let's say Congress.

My response would hinge on the target and reason. If it's Pakistan, whoever denies the order to attack is in the wrong to me. Infact, by continually not giving the order to erase Pakistan, current GoI is in the wrong to me.

Similarly, if tomorrow Modi orders attack on Hindus, and officers don't do it, my sympathy will lie with the officers.
 

prasadr14

PrasadReddy
Senior Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
Messages
6,843
Likes
38,763
Tyrant govt such an anti Hindu, anti Indian govt. Let's say Congress.

My response would hinge on the target and reason. If it's Pakistan, whoever denies the order to attack is in the wrong to me. Infact, by continually not giving the order to erase Pakistan, current GoI is in the wrong to me.

Similarly, if tomorrow Modi orders attack on Hindus, and officers don't do it, my sympathy will lie with the officers.
if Hindus voted en mass to elect an anti Hindu anti India govt, then they deserve every bomb coming their way.

After all, it was their collective will that resulted in the govt.
And a legally elected govt must always reign supreme over military, as long as the orders are within the mandate.

Also, as I understand, military can't bomb Indian people. If I am not wrong, there are specific laws needed for them to operate in civilian areas. That's why there are special acts for military where the area is disturbed.

There are checks and balances.
Military must obey civilian authority elected by people.
If that authority does illegal things, then the military has no need to obey. Everything else, they must.

firing Brahmos over Pakis without approval does not fall into this grey category.
 

SilentlAssassin265

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2019
Messages
1,463
Likes
4,327
Country flag
PTSD and Mental Health are First world issues. Our soldiers dont get those things.
We are not sissies.
 

Coalmine

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
3,776
Likes
12,916
Country flag
What for Air Force personnel suiciding.
Personal karan hoga
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
3,673
Likes
16,023
Country flag
Podcast mein high he junta... facts se bohot dur aur dialogue baazi k bohot pas.
 

Butter Chicken

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2016
Messages
7,304
Likes
49,835
Country flag
Pakistan's Balochistan-based Poshani sea shore was used to send a foreign boat "AL Soheli" for delivering a consignment of arms and ammunition along with 40 kg Heroin in the sea of Gujarat. The boat, having registration number BFD 14460, was intercepted and ten foreign nationals were arrested on December 28, 2022 with the consignment which aimed financial gains and terrorist activities in india and to provide funds to the terrorist gangs of Punjab and North India: NIA FIR

 

samsaptaka

तस्मात् उत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिष्चय
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2016
Messages
1,437
Likes
5,279
Country flag
LOC map being drawn , agreement signed.

there is still a margin or error for the line , we gobbled up some area later as the line was drawn with thick pen and not 100% accurate to actual geography , can still gobble if we want to .

This is where we lost the plot. We should never have agreed to demarcation like the chinks at LAC, and continued to gobble up pok wherever and whenever possible. Unfortunately political establishment has not guts neither then, nor now.
 

mokoman

Senior Member
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
5,579
Likes
31,031
Country flag
This is where we lost the plot. We should never have agreed to demarcation like the chinks at LAC, and continued to gobble up pok wherever and whenever possible. Unfortunately political establishment has not guts neither then, nor now.
we went to a tribunal for demarcating rann of kutch , tribunal gave 90% to us but all elevated area to pakistan .

if we were china , we would have waited , grabbed whole place.

a portion close to here in sir creek is still not demarcated . so like loc , no border there.

 
Last edited:

Gandaberunda

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2019
Messages
1,753
Likes
8,327
Country flag
we went to a tribunal for demarcating rann of kutch , tribunal gave 90% to us but all elevated area to pakistan .

if we were china , we would have waited , grabbed whole place.

a portion close to here in sir creek is still not demarcated . so like loc , no border there.

If Govt of India wants still can gobble up rann of Kutch and few parts of Thar desert of Amar kot but alas we keep sleeping
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top