India Pakistan conflict along IB and LoC (July 2021 onwards)

Knowitall

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With the Pakistani economy in total shambles, are we missing the once-in-a-century opportunity to attack and break Pakistan's back ?

Possible options we can exercise -
  • Do nothing - Pakistan gets bailed out with multi-billion dollar loans from IMF and China. Pakistan keeps dragging its slow economy while China keeps arming it with weapons to counter India. It becomes a north-Korean-type hellhole like a suicide bomb strapped to our doors, a constant threat to our peace and security.

  • Surgical strikes targeting HVTs - Hitting airbases, taking out radars, HQs, and missile silos. Karachi harbor gets razed and with it, the entire Pakistani navy. A large chunk of PAF either gets destroyed or disabled.
    There will be some repercussions, like the threat of a Chinese attack, but currently, all the high reaches of the Himalayas are frozen and hence, a counter-attack from China is unlikely. US & NATO will be unhappy but we can try to make it up for them by siding against Russia. In the longer run, this might be the best option.

  • Re-capture PoK - A juicy target but unlikely to succeed. Capturing mountains is difficult in itself and Pakistan can throw an unlimited amount of piss-poor infantry at us. Won't succeed within 2-3 months and China will 100% butt in as soon as snow melts. Can end up like the Russia-Ukraine disaster.
We all know the answer option 1 without any doubt.

We will see pakistan get eventually bailed out and restart it's terror activity once it regains its footing.

China and Pakistan will continue their cooperation and we will mostly do jack shit.
 

FalconSlayers

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After seeing how Imran Khan got kicked out of position after being too cozy with China
He was a rogue puppet, the reason he was kicked out was because he stopped CPEC which stopped the corruption and loot of pakistan by generals and china.

But paki army for sure is a CIA slave.
 

KurtisBrian

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Best option just nuke them to nothing
But that land was India just 80 years ago. Much better to retake Pakistan then conquer Iran and get your own oil. A huge heavily armed nation buying oil from know nothing do nothing weaklings. That is just crazy. Alphas kill what they eat and eat first.
Then your people wouldn't have to migrate to/labor in other nations in hopes of getting currency.
remove that Pakistani wall. It exists to seal you in.
 

Indrajit

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Doing nothing is good. Popcorn, beer and kebabs should be the only investment we do. Everything else is risk laden stupidity and the last thing we need at this stage of our economic growth.
 

fooLIam

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Doing nothing is good. Popcorn, beer and kebabs should be the only investment we do. Everything else is risk laden stupidity and the last thing we need at this stage of our economic growth.
Pakistan is existential threat right at our doorstep ,if India have to survive it have to solve this sooner or later.
but honestly current Indian setup does not have strategic thinking by design. So answer is we will be doing nothing.
 

another_armchair

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Wet Dream -

Balochistan has a simmering insurgency.

If the same model can be replicated in Sindh, then landlocked Pakjab and Pashtuns in NWFP can give reach arounds to each other for the rest of their existence.

Sindhi vs Punjabi fault line has existed for a long time.
 

pankaj nema

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With the Pakistani economy in total shambles, are we missing the once-in-a-century opportunity to attack and break Pakistan's back ?

Possible options we can exercise -
  • Do nothing - Pakistan gets bailed out with multi-billion dollar loans from IMF and China. Pakistan keeps dragging its slow economy while China keeps arming it with weapons to counter India. It becomes a north-Korean-type hellhole like a suicide bomb strapped to our doors, a constant threat to our peace and security.

  • Surgical strikes targeting HVTs - Hitting airbases, taking out radars, HQs, and missile silos. Karachi harbor gets razed and with it, the entire Pakistani navy. A large chunk of PAF either gets destroyed or disabled.
    There will be some repercussions, like the threat of a Chinese attack, but currently, all the high reaches of the Himalayas are frozen and hence, a counter-attack from China is unlikely. US & NATO will be unhappy but we can try to make it up for them by siding against Russia. In the longer run, this might be the best option.

  • Re-capture PoK - A juicy target but unlikely to succeed. Capturing mountains is difficult in itself and Pakistan can throw an unlimited amount of piss-poor infantry at us. Won't succeed within 2-3 months and China will 100% butt in as soon as snow melts. Can end up like the Russia-Ukraine disaster.
Sir , If we Attack Pakistan , China will simply Give MONEY to Pakistan, to overcome their problems

China dislikes Pakistan because they are SCUM but they hate India because we are a Competitor

Just as US is helping Ukraine to Defeat Russia , Same way China will help Pakistan

So Do Nothing for Now

Nobody Likes the Pakistanis

If they really wanted
Saudis ,UAE and China could bail out Pakistan

But they want them to Reform and Change

Once Pakistan falls into a free for all Chaos and Street Violence , only then will China Abandon Pakistan completely
 

flanker99

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But that land was India just 80 years ago. Much better to retake Pakistan then conquer Iran and get your own oil. A huge heavily armed nation buying oil from know nothing do nothing weaklings. That is just crazy. Alphas kill what they eat and eat first.
Then your people wouldn't have to migrate to/labor in other nations in hopes of getting currency.
remove that Pakistani wall. It exists to seal you in.
When u invade u dont just take the land but the people as well ..do u want some 300mln highly radicalised muslims to have unrestricted access to all over india?
We haven't even been able to hanle the ones living here well there shouldn't be any scope of getting more...best case pak gets divided and indian subcontinent gets a EU ish system with india on the lead ...worst case status quo persist
 

Indrajit

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Pakistan is existential threat right at our doorstep ,if India have to survive it have to solve this sooner or later.
but honestly current Indian setup does not have strategic thinking by design. So answer is we will be doing nothing.
PVN Rao used to say that sometimes the best course of action is to do nothing if that was the best option available. As I said, beer and snacks should be our only interest in this situation.
 

KurtisBrian

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When u invade u dont just take the land but the people as well ..do u want some 300mln highly radicalised muslims to have unrestricted access to all over india?
We haven't even been able to hanle the ones living here well there shouldn't be any scope of getting more...best case pak gets divided and indian subcontinent gets a EU ish system with india on the lead ...worst case status quo persist
okay very good point.
I was thinking of Rome. The people the Romans crushed didn't cause the fall of Rome. Celti Iberian, Gaulish, Corinthian men were killed, their people enslaved.
The people the Romans couldn't completely crush, the Germanic cow herders (which Civ 3 shows as coming from Central Asia), poured in for whatever reason, fought, undefeated then sort of defeated, were settled and finally like a time bomb, replaced or rebelled. Roman minds and wealth that could leave left.

Rome was rich and lasted a long time so I said better to crush the threat of those people whose system is not the same as yours. :)
 

cereal killer

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Well only hope is Nobel peace prize winner mudi ji tries some stunt before 2024... Not expecting any action otherwise.
Aggressive India is a thing of the past. If it were 70's & 80's with Porkistan this weak we might have not given a second thought & attacked instantly.
Nation always was ready for war back then. As they say “Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.”
Indians don't look much eager to a conflict these days especially after RN we saw after Feb 2019
 

Ulinatheclever

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Well only hope is Nobel peace prize winner mudi ji tries some stunt before 2024... Not expecting any action otherwise.
Aggressive India is a thing of the past. If it were 70's & 80's with Porkistan this weak we might have not given a second thought & attacked instantly.
Nation always was ready for war back then. As they say “Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.”
Indians don't look much eager to a conflict these days especially after RN we saw after Feb 2019
I don't get this attack mentality what do we achieve after defeating pakistan what is the end goal here to achieve, unless we are willing to make the entire world our enemy and wipe all of pakistan and then what fight the world make absolutely nonsense
 

Bharatiya

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Well only hope is Nobel peace prize winner mudi ji tries some stunt before 2024... Not expecting any action otherwise.
Aggressive India is a thing of the past. If it were 70's & 80's with Porkistan this weak we might have not given a second thought & attacked instantly.
Nation always was ready for war back then. As they say “Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.”
Indians don't look much eager to a conflict these days especially after RN we saw after Feb 2019.
With the Pakistani economy in total shambles, are we missing the once-in-a-century opportunity to attack and break Pakistan's back ?

Possible options we can exercise -
  • Do nothing - Pakistan gets bailed out with multi-billion dollar loans from IMF and China. Pakistan keeps dragging its slow economy while China keeps arming it with weapons to counter India. It becomes a north-Korean-type hellhole like a suicide bomb strapped to our doors, a constant threat to our peace and security.

  • Surgical strikes targeting HVTs - Hitting airbases, taking out radars, HQs, and missile silos. Karachi harbor gets razed and with it, the entire Pakistani navy. A large chunk of PAF either gets destroyed or disabled.
    There will be some repercussions, like the threat of a Chinese attack, but currently, all the high reaches of the Himalayas are frozen and hence, a counter-attack from China is unlikely. US & NATO will be unhappy but we can try to make it up for them by siding against Russia. In the longer run, this might be the best option.

  • Re-capture PoK - A juicy target but unlikely to succeed. Capturing mountains is difficult in itself and Pakistan can throw an unlimited amount of piss-poor infantry at us. Won't succeed within 2-3 months and China will 100% butt in as soon as snow melts. Can end up like the Russia-Ukraine disaster.
Without any doubt, we do have a problem where we shy away from the use of military force when we genuinely should. That is identified and must be addressed properly.

But we shouldn't fight Pakistan. No military action against them during this stage or in the near future. We need to think strategically than tactically; as a statesman that a general.

Consider we did take military action and did one of the below:
1. Bomb the sh*t out of the Jihadist outfits in POK
2. Conquer POK back
3. Somehow waged a complete war on Pak without somehow going nuclear.

1. Pakistan will swallow the losses. But the humiliation will remain. It'll start building the Jihadist factories again, only more secure this time. The terrorist problem in the valley could likely decline but it'll not disappear.

2. POK has 40 Lakh people. We are already facing so much problem with 12 Lakh population in our Kashmir. Taking back POK means we'll get a 3.5X larger population that's 10X more radicalized than our Kashmiris.

3. Then what? We'll be made the international Phariah. Sure, we won't go down. But we'll take a hit. A hard hit. It's impossible to govern a country with that big of a population. The manpower needed isn't even possible—unless we rule like a dictator—which we surely wouldn't. And if we did, then we'll lose almost all of the global standing.

My point is war, big or small, conquering or destroying, wouldn't help us at a fundamental level. We need to dig deeper and attack the pillars of Pakistan.

Rather than try destroy it militarily, how about we attack it societally, regionally, religiously, economically? We are doing some of these things but not at a scale and intensity enough to implode Pakistan.

The means should be infiltration into their high ranks, subversion and internal chaos. Pakistanis are up for sale. Their economy has gone from bad to worse and the army would eventually feel the heat. Then, we step in, buy the ones we can, promote people aligned with our own ideologies and create their Gorbachev. Pakistan's military is not monolithic. It's a reality we need to fully take advantage of.

The Greatest Victory Is That Which Requires No Battle: Sun Tzu

This is the mantra to go by. The goal should be to increase the growing faultlines in Paki and exploit them to the fullest. Let them implode, turn against each other and create an enmity.

It surely isn't easy but it'll solve most of the problems we face sans the nuke threat. If we manage to leverage our position and grab their nukes, then it's 100% solved.

We need to influence both their elite and the common people. They both live in their own worlds.
The situation on ground is more complex but this is the most concise observation: Elite would like money, influence and power. Common people are religious zealots.

We need to destroy them from within. And we need to plan, fund and orchestrate it. It might take 5 years, 10 years or even 15 years. The worse Paki's situation gets, the more leverage we have. But if we do it right, Pakistani will be gone forever without firing a single bullet. Then, we can form an EU style federation with India as the core, drive the laws of Balochistan, Sindh and the like. Take a generation or two to reverse brainwash the radicalized population and in fact, push them the Saudi Way—jail the mullas, allow concerts, alcohol, liberal, and all that shit—heavily influence the institutions of these newly born countries.

Before you say this is purely a day dream or even worse, a fantasy, think for a minute how many nations were influenced by the US and ended with this fate. Heck, USSR is the prime example. But US is the biggest country? Then China. It has great leverage over other countries because it has people in power aligning with it.

Both US and China buy up people, subvert the existing structure and control the institutions.

If we genuinely aspire to be a big boy on the globe, then we need to act like one. It isn't enough to grow economy and become rich, we need to be in control without needing to resort to violence.
 

Sanglamorre

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Without any doubt, we do have a problem where we shy away from the use of military force when we genuinely should. That is identified and must be addressed properly.

But we shouldn't fight Pakistan. No military action against them during this stage or in the near future. We need to think strategically than tactically; as a statesman that a general.

Consider we did take military action and did one of the below:
1. Bomb the sh*t out of the Jihadist outfits in POK
2. Conquer POK back
3. Somehow waged a complete war on Pak without somehow going nuclear.

1. Pakistan will swallow the losses. But the humiliation will remain. It'll start building the Jihadist factories again, only more secure this time. The terrorist problem in the valley could likely decline but it'll not disappear.

2. POK has 40 Lakh people. We are already facing so much problem with 12 Lakh population in our Kashmir. Taking back POK means we'll get a 3.5X larger population that's 10X more radicalized than our Kashmiris.

3. Then what? We'll be made the international Phariah. Sure, we won't go down. But we'll take a hit. A hard hit. It's impossible to govern a country with that big of a population. The manpower needed isn't even possible—unless we rule like a dictator—which we surely wouldn't. And if we did, then we'll lose almost all of the global standing.

My point is war, big or small, conquering or destroying, wouldn't help us at a fundamental level. We need to dig deeper and attack the pillars of Pakistan.

Rather than try destroy it militarily, how about we attack it societally, regionally, religiously, economically? We are doing some of these things but not at a scale and intensity enough to implode Pakistan.

The means should be infiltration into their high ranks, subversion and internal chaos. Pakistanis are up for sale. Their economy has gone from bad to worse and the army would eventually feel the heat. Then, we step in, buy the ones we can, promote people aligned with our own ideologies and create their Gorbachev. Pakistan's military is not monolithic. It's a reality we need to fully take advantage of.

The Greatest Victory Is That Which Requires No Battle: Sun Tzu

This is the mantra to go by. The goal should be to increase the growing faultlines in Paki and exploit them to the fullest. Let them implode, turn against each other and create an enmity.

It surely isn't easy but it'll solve most of the problems we face sans the nuke threat. If we manage to leverage our position and grab their nukes, then it's 100% solved.

We need to influence both their elite and the common people. They both live in their own worlds.
The situation on ground is more complex but this is the most concise observation: Elite would like money, influence and power. Common people are religious zealots.

We need to destroy them from within. And we need to plan, fund and orchestrate it. It might take 5 years, 10 years or even 15 years. The worse Paki's situation gets, the more leverage we have. But if we do it right, Pakistani will be gone forever without firing a single bullet. Then, we can form an EU style federation with India as the core, drive the laws of Balochistan, Sindh and the like. Take a generation or two to reverse brainwash the radicalized population and in fact, push them the Saudi Way—jail the mullas, allow concerts, alcohol, liberal, and all that shit—heavily influence the institutions of these newly born countries.

Before you say this is purely a day dream or even worse, a fantasy, think for a minute how many nations were influenced by the US and ended with this fate. Heck, USSR is the prime example. But US is the biggest country? Then China. It has great leverage over other countries because it has people in power aligning with it.

Both US and China buy up people, subvert the existing structure and control the institutions.

If we genuinely aspire to be a big boy on the globe, then we need to act like one. It isn't enough to grow economy and become rich, we need to be in control without needing to resort to violence.
Thing is, we don't even need PoK all that much except to fulfill our territorial duties.

Breaking Pakistan into bits, and then having solid FTA and even maybe protectorate status with Sindhudesh and Balochistan will gain us access to Iran and western Asia anyway.

I don't think gaining access through Wakhan corridor is any easy at those geographical conditions
 

samsaptaka

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Doing nothing is good. Popcorn, beer and kebabs should be the only investment we do. Everything else is risk laduen stupidity and the last thing we need at this stage of our economic growth.
As long as the West and chinka are alive porks are not going anywhere. So we have to do something to safeguard our interests.

Wet Dream -

Balochistan has a simmering insurgency.

If the same model can be replicated in Sindh, then landlocked Pakjab and Pashtuns in NWFP can give reach arounds to each other for the rest of their existence.

Sindhi vs Punjabi fault line has existed for a long time.
And this is one way. Create and fund insurgencies. Maybe we are already doing it with BLF TTP etc... though I do not really believe that since evidence is scarce and the current administration has somehow gone into Nehru 2.0 mode.

Pakistan is a border threat, not existential threat.

India could only have US as an existential threat provided if it bordered with India.
Disagree....crazy mullahs with nukes not an existential threat ?

This too is another strategy but not a final solution.

POK has 40 Lakh people. We are already facing so much problem with 12 Lakh population in our Kashmir. Taking back POK means we'll get a 3.5X larger population that's 10X more radicalized than our Kashmiris.
First start with ghar waapsi in our own country. Once successful we can think about capturing pok and inducing ghar waapsi by using money lifestyle inducement, i.e classic missionary tactics which as we has proven more successful that sullah jihadi tactics.
It's time Hinduism shunned conversion and go full style missionary mode for the sake of Dharma. Learn from your enemy
 

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