India opens bids in $10.4-bn combat plane tender.

[nitesh]

Switzerland looking for Rafale, good that paper plane is out from our competition

Rafale News: Switzerland, Dassault strikes back

 

[SpArK]

Switzerland, Dassault strikes back

The Swiss newspaper SonntagsZeitung reveals today that Dassault Aviation has made a new offer to Switzerland for 18 Rafale on January 19, 2012.

The price would be CHF 2.7 billions (€2.2 billions) some CHF 400 millions (€331.7 millions) cheaper than the 22 Gripen offered by Sweeden.

With this offer, each Rafale would be only 6 % more expensive than a Gripen, which is a real bargain considering the additionnal capabilities of the French fighter (range, load):

Gripen offer : CHF 3.1 billions for 22 jets or CHF 141 millions per aircraft
Rafale offer : CHF 2.7 billions for 18 jets or CHF 150 millions per aircraft

Indeed, Dassault claims that a fleet of 18 Rafale has equivalent efficiency as 22 Gripen, a fact confirmed by a high ranked officer of the Swiss army interviewed by the Newspaper, who states that 3 Rafale/Eurofighters were able to fulfill the same missions as 5 Gripen. Besides, SonntagsZeitung reports that the French offer would also includes unlimited access to French Air Bases, as well as the possibility to use French simulators, training areas ower the Mediterranean sea and French logistic during international exercises.

Le Matin Newspaper reports that the new French offer will be for a Rafale with the same avionic/sensor suite, air defense capabilities and offset package but with fewer Air to Ground options (No pylons for heavy bombs for example) in order to better match Switzerland needs. Moreover, access to Helios reconnaissance satellite and French AWACS data would also be in the package.

On Tuesday January 24, The Security committee of the National council had decided to check that the selection procedure was devoid of any irregularities or cheating after they received a letter signed by a mysterious "groupe pour une armee credible et integre" (Group for an honest and credible army) revealing that several parameters of the evaluation would have been changed in order to favor the Gripen (some even claim that without those "corrections" the Gripen wouldn't have passed some of the minimum thresholds set by the Air Force). Eventually, the informations leaked by the letter were juged serious enough by the security committee to ask for an investigation.

SonntagsZeitung | Home
Challenges.fr, l'économie en temps réel, actualités
Le Matin, l'actualité en direct: sports, people, politique, économie, multimédia
Tribune de Genève - l'actualité en direct: politique, sports, people, culture, économie, multimédia (Dassault New offer to Switzerland)
Tribune de Genève - l'actualité en direct: politique, sports, people, culture, économie, multimédia (possible investigation on Gripen selection irregularities)


Rafale News: Switzerland, Dassault strikes back

 

[Twinblade]

^^ There is no striking back, if there are any blows being dealt, they are to Dassault's image. Its easy to outbid your competitor once the bids have been opened but totally different ballgame when bidding through the regular process and drawing a line between making profits and fleecing the customer. 15% reduction on bid is nothing to be scoffed at, it means Dassault aviation could not make a competitive bid when it mattered, ultimately in the end its the shareholders and AdlA that stand losing because of Dassault's mismanaged commercial wing.

And what is the numbers game Dassault is trying to play, 3 rafales being as effective as 5 gripens ? Its like removing two legs from your chair and telling the customer that it is cheaper to buy a french two legged chair than buying a 4 legged swedish chair.

 

[arundo]

And what is the numbers game Dassault is trying to play, 3 rafales being as effective as 5 gripens ? Its like removing two legs from your chair and telling the customer that it is cheaper to buy a french two legged chair than buying a 4 legged swedish chair.

not really.. why should it be like a 4 legged Swedish chair vs. a 2 legged French chair?
The Gripen NG only exists on paper and the Rafale appears to be the better aircraft. BTW it is the fighter the Swiss Army wanted and which was on top of the 3 in the technical evaluation. The new bid would reduce the bill by 400 Million CHF and we should not forget, that price was the main reason for the decision at the end of November.

"Bidding" is always risky and you will try to find the right compromise between getting the business and pricing as high as possible; it is rather unlikely that Dassault will accept losses on any contract.

 

[pankaj nema]

Bad News for those who are hoping for an early decision

IAF chief is on an official trip to Malaysia till 4 th February

And it is but natural that any announcement of the winner would have been made by IAF chief

So it looks like that we have to wait even more

 

[bhramos]

12 yrs on, fighter deal ready to be sealed

 

[vanadium]

Switzerland, Dassault strikes back

The Swiss newspaper SonntagsZeitung reveals today that Dassault Aviation has made a new offer to Switzerland for 18 Rafale on January 19, 2012.

The price would be CHF 2.7 billions (€2.2 billions) some CHF 400 millions (€331.7 millions) cheaper than the 22 Gripen offered by Sweeden.

With this offer, each Rafale would be only 6 % more expensive than a Gripen, which is a real bargain considering the additionnal capabilities of the French fighter (range, load):

Gripen offer : CHF 3.1 billions for 22 jets or CHF 141 millions per aircraft
Rafale offer : CHF 2.7 billions for 18 jets or CHF 150 millions per aircraft

Indeed, Dassault claims that a fleet of 18 Rafale has equivalent efficiency as 22 Gripen, a fact confirmed by a high ranked officer of the Swiss army interviewed by the Newspaper, who states that 3 Rafale/Eurofighters were able to fulfill the same missions as 5 Gripen. Besides, SonntagsZeitung reports that the French offer would also includes unlimited access to French Air Bases, as well as the possibility to use French simulators, training areas ower the Mediterranean sea and French logistic during international exercises.

Le Matin Newspaper reports that the new French offer will be for a Rafale with the same avionic/sensor suite, air defense capabilities and offset package but with fewer Air to Ground options (No pylons for heavy bombs for example) in order to better match Switzerland needs. Moreover, access to Helios reconnaissance satellite and French AWACS data would also be in the package.

On Tuesday January 24, The Security committee of the National council had decided to check that the selection procedure was devoid of any irregularities or cheating after they received a letter signed by a mysterious "groupe pour une armee credible et integre" (Group for an honest and credible army) revealing that several parameters of the evaluation would have been changed in order to favor the Gripen (some even claim that without those "corrections" the Gripen wouldn't have passed some of the minimum thresholds set by the Air Force). Eventually, the informations leaked by the letter were juged serious enough by the security committee to ask for an investigation.

SonntagsZeitung | Home
Challenges.fr, l'économie en temps réel, actualités
Le Matin, l'actualité en direct: sports, people, politique, économie, multimédia
Tribune de Genève - l'actualité en direct: politique, sports, people, culture, économie, multimédia (Dassault New offer to Switzerland)
Tribune de Genève - l'actualité en direct: politique, sports, people, culture, économie, multimédia (possible investigation on Gripen selection irregularities)


Rafale News: Switzerland, Dassault strikes back

There were a few myths and legends about fighter export prices:

1) The lightweight single engine Gripen is a cheap fighter
Look at the numbers in Switzerland. You may understand why they lost in Austria...

2) Rafale is much cheaper than Typhoon
That is never been the case among informed observers, but perceptions are a different matter and difficult to correct once they take root

3) JSF is the most affordable jet fighter ever produced and the only one whose design is totally driven by affordability
Remember the launch flyaway price? $28 million a copy...I wish I had ordered a couple of thousands at that phantasy price (which was though instrumental in getting all those gullible European partners on board and keeping the programme alive in many difficult moments)

 

[p2prada]

And what is the numbers game Dassault is trying to play, 3 rafales being as effective as 5 gripens ? Its like removing two legs from your chair and telling the customer that it is cheaper to buy a french two legged chair than buying a 4 legged swedish chair.

According to IAF, a single MKI is equivalent to an entire squadron of Mig-21 Bison.

As a heavier twin engine fighter the Rafale can do more as compared to Gripen.

3) JSF is the most affordable jet fighter ever produced and the only one whose design is totally driven by affordability
Remember the launch flyaway price? $28 million a copy...I wish I had ordered a couple of thousands at that phantasy price (which was though instrumental in getting all those gullible European partners on board and keeping the programme alive in many difficult moments)

Prices have increased, but the final price will be known well into the future. There is no doubt the F-35 will be cheaper than either EF, Gripen or Rafale.

 

[Twinblade]

According to IAF, a single MKI is equivalent to an entire squadron of Mig-21 Bison.

As a heavier twin engine fighter the Rafale can do more as compared to Gripen.

Sure it can, no doubt about it, but you don't see IAF including 3 squadrons of Mki to replace 126 bisons, numbers have to be filled up with an aircraft that offers optimum level of deterrent for its price (procurement and operational). Swiss needed certain minimum number of airframes with a definite level of capability and at most affordable price. It may be entirely possible that goalposts may have been shifted to make a more economical choice, but there is a certain vendor which has cried foul after every single competition it took part in (and managed to not get selected rather spectacularly), whose whining in this case makes me want to say, "nothing to see, move on". There are a few possible scenarios that can play out in the Armasuisse procurement:-
1. Gripen deal gets through. (Dassault gets screwed)
2. Parliament after investigating the letter finds the allegations in the horribly worded letter true following which parliament takes a decision in best national interest and calls for re-evaluation by the time Gripen E/F production version MMI and radar is done. Gripen E/F passes tests comfortably. (and Dassault gets screwed)
3. Parliament finds the allegations of the letter false (Dassault gets screwed)
4. Parliament accepts Dassault's revised bid and allows others to place their more competitive bid. SAAB too cuts their bid and wins again (Dassault gets screwed)
5. Parliament finds the letter to be true and sets up a committee which does the cost-capability analysis of the evaluations and concurs with the decision taken by Armasuisse (Dassault gets screwed).

This is just a trailer of the drama Dassault aviation will throw up if it doesn't win in India, and everybody knows what happens when even a single allegation of corruption is made in India.

 

[Poseidon]

No Deal Before March, But MMRCA Lowest Bidder "Soon": Minister

The Indian M-MRCA fighter deal won't be signed before the financial year draws down, Indian defence minister AK Antony told reporters in Delhi today, but confirmed that the lowest bidder would be declared "soon". It had been near certain that the results of the toss-up between bids by Dassault and EADS would be announced this month, though it now appears to have slipped into February. Stay tuned for more details.

Livefist: No Deal Before March, But MMRCA Lowest Bidder "Soon": Minister

 

[nitesh]

same is getting reported by Reuters:

No India jet fighter deal before end March: minister | Reuters

 

[nitesh]

some points from the report, seems like French have almost won

One defense ministry source with knowledge of the negotiations said each Rafale was $4 million to $5 million cheaper and the plane was preferred by the Air Force.

"Unit-wise, the French plane is much cheaper than the Eurofighter. Moreover, the Indian Airforce, which is well-equipped with French fighters, is favoring the French fighter," said the source, who asked not be named.

 

[Poseidon]

The source added the defense ministry was considering further extending the tender to buy an additional 80 or so jets, Saying bidders excluded from the current process might be permitted to take part.]

A very important development.Who knows SH might be back!

 

[nitesh]

A very important development.Who knows SH might be back!

A remote possibility, but may be we will see EF has winner and SH/Rafale catering for IAF and IN both, with catapult in IAC 2 onwards

 

[Payeng]

No Deal Before March, But MMRCA Lowest Bidder "Soon": Minister

The Indian M-MRCA fighter deal won't be signed before the financial year draws down, Indian defence minister AK Antony told reporters in Delhi today, but confirmed that the lowest bidder would be declared "soon". It had been near certain that the results of the toss-up between bids by Dassault and EADS would be announced this month, though it now appears to have slipped into February. Stay tuned for more details.

Livefist: No Deal Before March, But MMRCA Lowest Bidder "Soon": Minister

same is getting reported by Reuters:

No India jet fighter deal before end March: minister | Reuters

Mr. Antony did not mention which year of March

 

[sob]

This deal will surely go down in Guinness Book of World record as the longest delayed deal.

I am sure that as long as Mr.Anthony is the Def. Minister the deal will not be decided.

 

[Param]

No Deal Before March, But MMRCA Lowest Bidder "Soon": Minister

The Indian M-MRCA fighter deal won't be signed before the financial year draws down, Indian defence minister AK Antony told reporters in Delhi today, but confirmed that the lowest bidder would be declared "soon". It had been near certain that the results of the toss-up between bids by Dassault and EADS would be announced this month, though it now appears to have slipped into February. Stay tuned for more details.

Livefist: No Deal Before March, But MMRCA Lowest Bidder "Soon": Minister

When a word is written within double quotes, it implies its only apparent and not necessarily true.

 

[SpArK]

L1 to be evident before this weekend: MoD sources

 

[Twinblade]

^^ From the link:

One defense ministry source with knowledge of the negotiations said the life-time cost of the tender including training and maintenance may reach $15 billion.

Journalist's mistake or the "source" was trolling

Also something to make Rafale fans happy

"Unit-wise, the French plane is much cheaper than the Eurofighter. Moreover, the Indian Airforce, which is well-equipped with French fighters, is favoring the French fighter," said the source, who asked not be named.

Edit:

https://twitter.com/#!/saurabhjoshi/status/164286862989598721

@saurabhjoshi Saurabh Joshi (Editor, StratPost.)
#MMRCA L1 to be evident before this weekend: MoD sources

 

[SpArK]

Yes... Rafale has been confirmed lowest bidder