India opens bids in $10.4-bn combat plane tender.

[nrj]

Before we get these planes delivered the planes themselves will get outdated I think

Outgoing ACM already said that MRCA tech will be outdated by 2016-17.

However lifespan of these planes will be roughly 40 yrs.


Sent from GT-I9100

 

[Tshering22]

Outgoing ACM already said that MRCA tech will be outdated by 2016-17.

However lifespan of these planes will be roughly 40 yrs.


Sent from GT-I9100

40 years?! They wont' be effective more than coming 25 years. ACM Naik did his last ditch to scare the callous MOD to make a decision quick. I don't feel there is any hope in our national defense unless and until military starts aggressively Vetoing babus' decisions at intervals. One man is vulnerable but Joint Staff Committee would be much more powerful. I sincerely wish MOD was controlled directly by in-field operating soldier level people who KNOW about situation at hand rather than corrupt and evil sarkari schmucks.

 

[nrj]

Check out the commercial response to RFPs. Lifespan is clearly highlighted.

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[ace009]

The sudden announcement of $20 billion for the MMRCA planes - is there are chance that they are going to split the orders between Rafale and EF? maybe 126 of one and 74 of another, I know we have discussed this earlier and agreed taht it is a logistics nightmare - but could this be done for political or strategic purposes?
Maybe to keep both sides happy and in business with IAF so that in the future more and better tech can be acquired from both sides?

 

[p2prada]

The sudden announcement of $20 billion for the MMRCA planes - is there are chance that they are going to split the orders between Rafale and EF? maybe 126 of one and 74 of another, I know we have discussed this earlier and agreed taht it is a logistics nightmare - but could this be done for political or strategic purposes?
Maybe to keep both sides happy and in business with IAF so that in the future more and better tech can be acquired from both sides?

No chance. The $10.6Billion figure came in the period 2004-2007. So, in 2011 the figure should be above that for obvious reasons. Even Boeing had once said the deal will be worth $20Billion. It will be a one vendor deal.

Splitting the deal will be a loss of credibility for India.

 

[Pandora]

RAFALE

Eurofighter In IAF colour

Courtesy:kyudosix and Agnott from deviant art.com

 

[weg]

40 years?! They wont' be effective more than coming 25 years. ACM Naik did his last ditch to scare the callous MOD to make a decision quick.

Manned aircraft have gone about as far as it can go, these aircraft are going to be controlling swarms of cheap drones firing sophisticated missiles. Defeating stealth will be a big area for improvement, having a network of drones or spaced based radar is the way to go. Manned aircraft will be for command and control, an extension of AWAC's. So the most important feature of a manned aircraft could be the speed that it could run away.

 

[mahesh]

Outgoing ACM already said that MRCA tech will be outdated by 2016-17.

However lifespan of these planes will be roughly 40 yrs.

for the senior members here, what does the actually word outdated mean here, in what sense?
Is it about the technology which will be familiar to other nation, so India MMRCA won't be an extraordinary aircrafts.
or our finalist aircrafts will be a old design and the world will be looking to induct next generation aircrafts

 

[Galaxy]

Cool HAL waits for the big winner


BANGALORE: Plane-maker Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) chose not to jump into the MMRCA (Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft) madness on Friday, even as aviation pundits world over tracked every bit of news on the opening of a bumper commercial bid.

While the Ministry of Defence officials scanned macro price points along with Typhoon (Eurofighter) and Rafale (Dassault) representatives in Delhi, senior officials of HAL remained cool as a cucumber. They probably knew, who ever bags the $10.4 billion order, they will be the biggest winner.

Out of the 126 combat MMRCA fighters, HAL will manufacture 108 aircraft (make category) at the Aircraft Division in Bangalore, while the first 18 (buy category) will come in a fly-away condition from the hangars of the winner.

"First, we will make few planes from a semi-knocked-down kit, then from completely knocked-down kit and finally from absolute raw material phase. Once we are clear with the rules of the game, we will start parallel activities," HAL sources said.

When asked how significant will be the MMRCA project to HAL, the official said: "It will be a huge learning curve for us as we lay our hands on the next-level of fighter jet. It will also give us some learning points for our Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) project. We will be able to extrapolate the MMRCA knowledge to FGFA. Definitely it is an exciting prospect to get involved with Western aircraft technology."

HAL's Hawk production line is abuzz with activities and they are hoping to complete the delivery of the remaining 15 aircraft (out of a total 42 made under licence) by the end of 2011-2012. "This line will be busy for a couple of years more as we have an additional order of 57 aircraft. So, MMRCA will be a separate production line, with likely additional manpower," sources said. HAL's Engine Division in Bangalore will play a key role in the project. While it is very sketchy to predict when the Indian Air Force will get the first HAL-built MMRCA, the company is seeing this as an opportunity to raise the bar of professional work sphere. "We need to possibly empower our managers and encourage them to take risks fearlessly," the official said.

Cool HAL waits for the big winner - southindia - Karnataka - ibnlive

 

[Galaxy]

MMRCA deal: Europe versus France contest begins for world's biggest combat aircrafts

Sources, however, said the "unit flyaway cost" or "direct acquisition cost" of each Eurofighter Typhoon was "higher" than the French Rafale fighter, both of which fall in the $80-$110 million bracket.

But the unit flyaway cost will not be the only factor to determine the lowest bidder (L-1). The MoD will also take into account "life-cycle costs" or the cost of operating the fighters over a 40-year period, with 6,000 hours of flying.

IAF wants the actual contract to be inked by January-February to ensure the delivery of first 18 jets begins by early-2015 to stem its fast-eroding combat edge, with HAL beginning the manufacturing of the rest 108 from early-2017 onwards. "The first jet built by HAL should roll out in early-2017," said an official.

India is also likely to go in for another 63 fighters after the first 126, if the timelines for the under-development Tejas LCA (light combat aircraft) and the stealth Indo-Russian FGFA (fifth-generation fighter aircraft) projects are not met.

So By 2017, We will have 2 squadron means after 7 years ??? :shocked:

 

[p2prada]

MMRCA deal: Europe versus France contest begins for world's biggest combat aircrafts

So By 2017, We will have 2 squadron means after 7 years ??? :shocked:

Yup, and that's being optimistic that everything will go as planned, which seldom does. The MKI seems to be delayed by 3 years so expect the same for MRCA.

 

[The Messiah]

Rafale is the winner.

 

[Yusuf]

On the looks part, between the two EF looks more elegant.

 

[Yusuf]

Rafale is the winner.

Fly on the wall of MoD eh?

 

[Param]

I would love the comedy when mmrca is cancelled.

 

[utubekhiladi]

i told you all gazillion times.

dassault rafale already won.

 

[The Messiah]

Fly on the wall of MoD eh?

Afterall we are all here.

 

[Galaxy]

I don't know what it will make difference to IAF as 2nd squadron will be raised only in 2017 only that also if all goes well ??

We need at least 6 squadron (2 each on west,north and N-E side) which will be possible only by 2022-2023. 11-12 years from now.

I have lost all my interest in this MMRCA deal as i am fed of listing news and news and more news for last 4 years from the day i starting tracking defence related news. Sorry to say, But I am frustrated with MoD decision making ability.

IMO, Best thing to do is - 1) Buy 40 more MKI direct from Russia (Irkut), So By 2015 end, We will have around 220-250 MKI. 2) Buy 60-70 Rafale/Typhoon direct from Europe which will be operational by 2016-2017 and next 60-70 can be manufactured by HAL after 2017 onwards. So in that way, By 2017- We will be operating around 300 MKI, 60-70 MMRCA and 200 odd MIG29, MK2, Tejas. 500-600 odd quality fighter jets will be Good enough if not Best.

Then after 2017 onwards, We can/will add PAK FA/FGFA + Tejas MK2 and More MMRCA (by HAL) -- 10-20 each every year!

 

[sayareakd]

here are some of the things that can happen.

1. one of the two won the tender.
2. Tender can be cancelled.
3. Tender is delayed for some more time.
4. worse case both of them are asked to give 125 fighter each with TOT. (we can afford this if we play or cards right) one is made by HAL and other some private company (TATA or L&T)
5. allegations of bribes and kickbacks and both or either of them is blacklisted.

 

[Galaxy]

@ Saya

Even if we choose anyone, It won't make any difference to IAF. Mark my words.

5 Squadron in 10 years ?? Why not Buy F-18 Super Hornet, U.S. will provide 100 Odd Jets within 5 years. Yes, No ToT, But what does it matter? What we learnt from MIG and Sukhoi in last 30 years ?? Tejas which is still in underdevelopment for last 20 years ?? 1st Home made MKI with 20% indigenous after 10 years ?