India needs to revisit 1962 humiliation for catharsis

[Ray]

Looks locals don't agree with you!



Of course since they are not indians and they don't want to be indians!

That chap is no smoking.

What are you smoking?

Ask the people and not go by CCP handouts on history!

In the meantime, keep happy with doing the gangnam for your so called zangnan


Imagine in China Meos, Yues, Cantonese have had their brains wiped about their origin and history and are being told that they are people North of the Yellow River!

You all play ping pong with their brains and make them into ding dongs!

And have wierd names a zagnan like total ganjam!

Ganjam = confusion!

 

[Ray]

HR, you are not new to this forum, why are you still expecting reason from our Indian posters?

Correct.

They can't read Chinee to conform and kowtow with pigtails on to the diktats of the Glorious Communist Party of China the Saviour of the Proletariat, Workers and Peasants!

And they are not Tongzhis (Comrades) either like all Chinese posters here!

 

[G90]

Weren't chinese ruled by uyghurs / tukrs in ancient past....their pyramids all over china proves this and the so called hans have been keeping it a secret because it will put them to an historic shame??

Weren't chinese ruled by mongols? who are actually real owners of china!!

Din't china occupy independent Nation of Tibet illegally through aggression?

And that proves china is no realistic entity just as the self proclaimed race called hans!!

I never know turks/uyguhurs ruled China, let along build pyramids (WTF? nomads build pyramids? must be a breakiingthrough scientific discovery I am being utterly unaware of)

Oh, the reason why turks turn to europe is because their homeland in North China were taken over by han, but they still feel little resistance in beat the then roman empire like another hordes of nomads (Huns) who fleed away from China did before.
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Mod: Enough of trolling

 

[G90]

Indians should give up their wet wet dreams (althrough we all know they are extremely good at day-dreaming ), they are hopeless agains the Great Chinese Empire, if China could beat the crap out of india in a 1962 where China were undergoing a famine/massive economy collapses, and at odds with the then two world superpowers, China can definitely beat the crap out of the crap of india now.

So lets be civil, just because China's main foucs at the moment is sink japland and deal with the americans, doesnt mean they cannot handle you at the same time, afterall it wont pay us much effects to handle you anyway

 

[blank_quest]

Indians should give up their wet wet dreams (althrough we all know they are extremely good at day-dreaming ), they are hopeless agains the Great Chinese Empire, if China could beat the crap out of india in a 1962 where China were undergoing a famine/massive economy collapses, and at odds with the then two world superpowers, China can definitely beat the crap out of the crap of india now.

So lets be civil, just because China's main foucs at the moment is sink japland and deal with the americans, doesnt mean they cannot handle you at the same time, afterall it wont pay us much effects to handle you anyway

I know now what 50 cent propaganda is

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Indians should give up their wet wet dreams (althrough we all know they are extremely good at day-dreaming ), they are hopeless agains the Great Chinese Empire, if China could beat the crap out of india in a 1962 where China were undergoing a famine/massive economy collapses, and at odds with the then two world superpowers, China can definitely beat the crap out of the crap of india now.

So lets be civil, just because China's main foucs at the moment is sink japland and deal with the americans, doesnt mean they cannot handle you at the same time, afterall it wont pay us much effects to handle you anyway

Tough talk from big chicken china, a nation that cannot handle phillipines or vietnam,

 

[SADAKHUSH]

your are right....the defference is when indians invaded Hyderabad State chinese never thought of providing covert arms shipments to the local people there........which again shows while indians so care about their influence over tibet chinese just wouldnt give a crap to the killing situation in sub continent......

May be it is time for you to study the logistics before dreaming of something which is impossible to execute? How would you achieve your objectives as stated by you? Give us a break, you can do better than that. Just look at the map of India and than you will find where Hyderabad is and how you would ship anything to the destination.

 

[Ray]

Indians should give up their wet wet dreams (althrough we all know they are extremely good at day-dreaming ), they are hopeless agains the Great Chinese Empire, if China could beat the crap out of india in a 1962 where China were undergoing a famine/massive economy collapses, and at odds with the then two world superpowers, China can definitely beat the crap out of the crap of india now

Interesting point.

If Aunty had gonads, she would be Uncle.

What happened in 1962 may surprise you now!

In Communist countries, whenever there is chaos, the attention is turned elsewhere.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

The Himalayan war ended in a rout of Indian forces. Chinese then withdrew although their victory was not without cost. The defeat, however, changed India's view of China forever. India claims the moral high ground, blaming China for a stealthy strike but it completely misread its giant neighbour. Mao, who saw Nehru as a conniving and pretentious leader, began and ended the war on his own terms.

In between, Indian troops suffered successive reverses. The People's Liberation Army (PLA) overran Indian positions south of the Mcmahon line. Chinese troops overwhelmed Indian defences by the sheer weight of numbers and Tawang was soon under attack.

In the north-east, confusion and courage, foolhardiness and daredevilry were all playing out as a dazed military leadership dithered about its response. Major General A S Pathania, commanding the fourth division in Kameng in Arunachal Pradesh, ordered his troops to withdraw in humiliation.

On October 24, 1962, Zhou offered Nehru a settlement that was rejected. Parliament passed a resolution resolving to "drive out aggressors" from Indian soil. Hostilities resumed with Chinese attacks on Sela and Bomdila. PLA was close to Tezpur, when China declared a unilateral ceasefire and withdrew 20km from the Line of Actual Control. According to Henry Kissinger, Mao did not see India as a perpetual foe, but famously remarked that force will "knock Nehru back to the negotiating table".

China won the conflict, but then withdrew from territory it had taken?

Is the writer of the article a military person? What is catharsis in military terms?

Anybody read this book?

From Nehru's grudging acceptance of Chinese suzerainty to Atal Bihari Vajpayee's blithe acceptance of full Chinese sovereignty, India has incrementally shed its main card — Tibet — and thereby allowed the aggressor state to shift the spotlight from its annexation of Tibet and Aksai Chin to its newly assertive claims on Arunachal Pradesh. The irony is that by laying claims to additional Indian territories on the basis of their purported ties to Tibet, China blatantly plays the Tibet card against India, going to the extent of citing the birth in Tawang of one of the earlier Dalai Lamas, a politico-religious institution it has systematically sought to destroy. Yet India remains coy to play the Tibet card against China.

The sum effect of failing to use Tibet as a bargaining chip has been that India first lost Aksai Chin, then more territory in 1962 and now is seeking to fend off Chinese claims to Arunachal Pradesh. And as Shourie reminds his readers, India has still to grasp that the Chinese modus operandi of promising a peaceful settlement and then employing force to change facts on the ground is an old practice. The lessons he paints — from not running policy on hope to ensuring peace by building capability to defend peace — are words of warning no leadership ought to ignore.

Lessons for today’s India from the 1962 Chinese invasion | Stagecraft and Statecraft

 

[ice berg]

China won the conflict, but then withdrew from territory it had taken?

Is the writer of the article a military person? What is catharsis in military terms?

Tactical withdrawal? It was hard to keep the supply line open.

 

[huaxia rox]

HR, you are not new to this forum, why are you still expecting reason from our Indian posters?

coz i wanna know how many more excuses indian invaders can have.........1 is 1957 chinese road building.....chinese cant build roads in aksai chin and indian invaders can build roads in zangnan and go to the north of M line.......and then they invaded prc.....

what else???

 

[DaTang]

There are Wagah candle lighters in India.

It is a democracy.

They cannot be locked up and put away as it is done in some countries!

very well said, citizens from Democrazy candleland.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Indian units reported increased Chinese aggression, but the Nehru government did not read the tea leaves. China prepared for war, while India missed the clues. After intermittent clashes in the preceding days, when on October 20, 1962, China launched massive strikes in the north-east and Ladakh, India was completely caught off guard.

The Himalayan war ended in a rout of Indian forces. Chinese then withdrew although their victory was not without cost. The defeat, however, changed India's view of China forever. India claims the moral high ground, blaming China for a stealthy strike but it completely misread its giant neighbour. Mao, who saw Nehru as a conniving and pretentious leader, began and ended the war on his own terms.

In between, Indian troops suffered successive reverses. The People's Liberation Army (PLA) overran Indian positions south of the Mcmahon line. Chinese troops overwhelmed Indian defences by the sheer weight of numbers and Tawang was soon under attack.

To revisit means to identify the lessons learned. The emphasized words in the above quote seem to be a lesson to be learned. What would India do to counter mass Chinese attacks in future, in terms of weapons and tactics? That would make an interesting discussion. Blaming Nehru again will not solve the dilemma.

 

[bose]

ULFA who pursues building a free and independent assam is deemed as a terrorist group by some indians.....

ULFA is a terrorist organization deemed by ALL Indians NOT SOME... It is in the dead bed...

BTW Dalai Lama the great son on Tibet is fighting against Chineese thugs, also considered as Terrorist by you...

 

[roma]

1 is 1957 chinese road building.....chinese cant build roads in aksai chin and indian invaders can build roads in zangnan and go to the north of M line.......and then they invaded prc.....what else???

huaxia rox = in english it means chinese people Rock .... it's a nice name !

for once i happen to agree with chicom - Mr N's forward policy was a mistake ......... nevertheless lets' be accurate - it was a reaction to the fact that even before negotiating, dragon had built that infamous road ....and you did that first
....years before his forward policy - you PROVOKED him !!! ....his mistake was going beyond the line , he should have stayed just within the McMahon line ....and been correct , slight mistake there ...and you used it as A GREAT EXCUSE to attack !!

but really the far more important issue is this :- the past is OVER ! but, today , : DO YOU WANT FRIENDSHIP WITH INDIA ? that is more important than analysing the past - we cant go back and revive the 5,000 indian or 2,000 or so chinese who died , sadly we cant !

answer that question first, if you would sir ?


if the asnwer is NO ! , then youre doing fine ....just continue the way you are , no changes necessary and dont pretend about giving forward policy as excuses .

if the asnwer is YES : (1) stop the border transgressions
(2) be sincere about handing back what is 0.03% ( one third of one percent) of your territory to india which is after all one third of y our land mass . India has given land to the smaller pak and bangla, china cant do the same ? The principle being that the larger country can afford to give to the smaller ....even russia gave some land to china recently .

if you do not want to do (1) and (2) above , all the hot air talk about friendship, blaming forward policy and all your other "REASONS" wouldnt mean a thing , not to me and i'd guess not to most indians too ( except your CPI friends )

 

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

chinese leadership is very secretive and considering very less interaction they have with the outside world and their very special ability of always hiding their real purpose , prediction china's future course of action with india is still 90% guess work but u r rite we can be sure only of our preparation and by tht i mean military one ,for political one bette left aside than commented on.

the chinese are mostly on a plateau and motorable roads are easy. just think, when they cross over, do we really want them to have good roads to drive down, or would we rather they slogged their way over rough terrain? away from their roads their lines get clogged and if we fall back, ours get better

we have plenty of roads further back to allow lateral movement, especially artillery so that we can keep them bottled up in the passes and then we can hit their logistics using air assets once stranded, their men will not be doing too much, although knowing the PLA history, they will fight to the last so do we.

 

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

62 was all about being unprepared on the military front . About a political leadership somewhat etopic on ground reality and about a secrative ruthless regime bent to humiliate india on the world stage . The first two factors helped make the third strategic objective bear fruit .The unilateral ceasefire was part of the chinese game plan

62 was also a consolidation extension of Tibet so that in future no one questions it is an integral part of china by pushing and claiming more than they really want also a move to make emerging frienship with pakistan more concrete aand then to make pakistan feel confidan enough to keep india militarily off balance with small wars sadly it misfired for pakisatn badly in 71 but for china it was better now it has the sad state of pakistan firmly in its fold .

It's interesting to realize that even today, the basic issues between India and China are quite similar to the 1962 situation. Now, as then, the tension is not really territorial, but existential - a matter of power, influence and prestige in the world. Even the material issues, like access to oil, are secondary. To some extent, the border continues to provide a convenient excuse and venue for military posturing, but it's not realistic to think that the Chinese are about to sweep into Assam. It is more likely, I think, that a confrontation with China will come at a place like Myanmar or the Cocos Island, or even Nepal, should the Nepali regime collapse. the ground reality is totally different and any conflict with india will hurt chinese interests many times more than ours -they will not do it atleast not in next 7-10 yrs .Border skirmishes like in nathu la 67 will occur for sure as aggressive forward patrolling is carried out by both sides more frequently more the asses the others preparednes level than a purcussor to serious teritorial conflict

 

[bose]

To revisit means to identify the lessons learned. The emphasized words in the above quote seem to be a lesson to be learned. What would India do to counter mass Chinese attacks in future, in terms of weapons and tactics? That would make an interesting discussion. Blaming Nehru again will not solve the dilemma.

I have been arguing with my Indian brothers in different forums that the Chineese are THE EVIL force in the current century... Just see how it is in confrontation with all its neighbors... China understands and respects force just the way they were treated by Japaneese in the World War - II they deserved it... It is aparant now ... They understand the humilation like Nanjin they will remember for generations to come...

Going back to India... The lessons learned apart from the blunders by Nehru on his misjudging Chinas intention and keeping the Indian defense force un prepared state for the eventuality...

India needs to be pragmatic and emotions does not come here, we have to be steadfast and counter Chineese bluff as follows.

1. India have to continue its infrustructure build ups in North East, top priority should be given to this area.
2. India needs Mountain Strick Corps in border with Tibet, India have to take the fight with China into the Occupied Tibet.
3. Needs to repeal the No First Use of Nukes against Nucluar opponent. The message should go to China the cost will be very high and the war will spill into the main land also.
4. More active participation of Indian Navy in South China Sea [SCS] with defense agreement with Vietnam, Japan, South Korea and USA for a co ordinated Defence resposne to China in event of any war situation.
5. Help Vietnam in technology so that they can come up with Missiles and weapons of mass destruction so that they are able to reach every corner of China.

 

[maomao]

I never know turks/uyguhurs ruled China, let along build pyramids (WTF? nomads build pyramids? must be a breakiingthrough scientific discovery I am being utterly unaware of)

Oh, the reason why turks turn to europe is because their homeland in North China were taken over by han, but they still feel little resistance in beat the then roman empire like another hordes of nomads (Huns) who fleed away from China did before.

Talking about military conquest, india is a big joke:

Geneticially speaking, whilst Han's male side of DNA (y-DNA, for han, it is a combination of O3a5 plus O3* at 50-50) is all-over other Asians ethnics whilst their female-side of mtDNA is quite rare among other asians, as for indians, there is a sharp distinction between the source of their Y-DNA and mtDNA, which explains alot about who is the boss throughout history

You are xxxxxxx brainwashed by CCP -- no doubt you don't know jack beyond CCP taught history!!

China's Great Pyramids Controversy

ARTS-CULTURE - First Turkish researcher enters Chinese pyramids




Fact of the matter is you Hans were ruled by Turks and Mongols!!

Historically you so called Chinese Hans have been paying tributes to Indian rulers! India has always gained its independence but China have always been a vassal of some state or the others!! Your DNA theory looks like the word of mouth from CCP.......Ok now go smoke opium....Because you still are a slave (of CCP)!!

Mod: Language

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Where was your Han Male DNA when you were being beaten by Japanese in Nanjin ?

I reported this post as hate speech.


Mod: Quote edited