India needs to revisit 1962 humiliation for catharsis

[navkapu]

Nehru, Brij Mohan Kaul (Army Chief) etc that when you have Relatives as army chiefs. Is the situation better? Is the Prime minister related to Army Chief?

http://www.chakranews.com/army-chief-row-will-history-repeat/2534 Read this may help.....

It was the attitude of Nehru saying hindi-chini bhai bhai and he did not give proper directions to the officers and we lacked in arms and ammunition....

Please check it properly, India lacked in arms and ammunition, which was the main cause of the defeat in 1962, along with the poor attitude of Nehru......

 

[Ray]

"India will" and "India can". People in xizhang need to pay attentions to your promise.

What is this new place called Xizhang?

Sinkiang?

 

[t_co]

It wasn't Nehru's weakness failed India. It is the weakness of Indian army. At that time, Indian army was not good enough to beat PLA: Comparing to their counterpart, most of its officers lack experience of commanding their army to fight a war; the indian army organization hadn't been upgraded for a post-ww2 war.

Even Indra was in charge in 1962, the best she can do was terminating "forward policy", reforming her army and waiting for suitable moment.

Very much so. Nehru's desire to get a territorial fait accompli done while pursuing diplomacy with China was a very big gamble. Indeed, it might have worked had the Cuban Missile Crisis not distracted both superpowers at once. Unfortunately, he couldn't foresee that China would get a one month window to solve the territorial dispute by force. As soon as China got that window, all his strategic cards--diplomatic backing, an approach of 'non-violent aggression'--became zeros or even strategic liabilities.

In the end, the fault doesn't lie with Nehru for having a bad plan or having weakness--the fault lies with him for either 1) not understanding India's own strengths and weaknesses properly or 2) being too lazy to create contingency plans in case diplomacy failed.

If there is one lesson that India has absorbed to heart now, it is to plan and plan for diplomacy to fail. The Sundarji and Cold Start doctrines both reflect that, and I have no doubt India has a realistic Sino-Indian war plan in place. However, India now has a different issue: it doesn't realize that its plans are obsolete in the face of nuclear weapons. Conventional aggression against a nuclear armed state on any level higher than the company or battalion--that is, higher than the tactical level--risks triggering MAD.

India needs to translate its doctrinal approach to figuring out non-military ways to resolve its territorial and existential problems, like crafting a set of cohesive economic levers to pull on vis a vis its neighbors--just look at, for example, how deftly China channels money to SE Asian elites (such as co-opting both the Royals and Thaksin Shinawatra in Thailand, or hiring hundreds of retired Pentagon and congressional officials to lobby on behalf of Chinese firms looking to buy American high-tech companies.) Unfortunately, I just don't think Indian politics has that requisite lack of moral scruple, absolute ruthlessness, and non-ethnic, non-religious, purely monetary thought process that goes with the current Chinese technocracy and that is necessary to pull a strategy like that off.

 

[t_co]

Also, the reason why China stays away from trying to influence Indian politicians is that Indian politics confuse the hell out of China, even more so than US politics once did. Chinese scholars, for example, find it very difficult to grasp the communal and provincial nuances that drive the Indian political dynamic, because that sort of nuance has never been a part of Chinese politics at any time in the past three millenia.

 

[huaxia rox]

Nor do I care what PRC criminals thinks of Kashmir... Kashmir belongs to India the same way Tibet belongs to you !! Has it gone into your pie sized brain this time ???

So same way there would not have been any problem now what we see in TIBET if the PLA criminals have not invaded the holy land of TIBET...

criminals in kashimir talking about tibet??you can talk.....and you can act.....and you also see the answer of your actions in 1962.......some 3000 pows.....

China has always lost to smaller countries be it Japan in WW - II or Vietnam last time 30 years back what a shame for a country desperately wanting to become a super power...

If any one crosses the Indian border we also cross and go over to other side and kill few of them... China can try once crossing the TIBET - INDIA border ...

china won all the wars in the 20th centry besides the one with sovit union which there was no winner as far as i am concerned.....and beating indians in 1962 was the easist job.....you need pics to show how your pows or japanese official representives surrendered??

In 1987 China crossed south of the M Line and so did the India crossed over to the north of M Line... to put it simple for your pie sized brain...

As usual a warning from China for action but at the end you ran away with your small tail behind your legs...

i need pics and links other than indian here......can you give.....a simple question......india is a lying country where your ISRO chief saying you got the best settallites in the world......so i need non indian sources here......

China was a colony of TINY Mongolia & then JAPAN... They came and humiliated you the worst possible way and still you are not ASHAMED of it ??? so typical of Chinese people... Chinese have no self respect...

Japanese came and killed 35 million Chinese with impunity have you forgot that ?? or the PRC criminals did not told you ?? You should be great full to USA they SAVED your ASS...

Search in this forum itself you will get the photos of the surrendered Chinese POW in Vietnam WAR... go and search now...

talking about war with small nations......the uk indeed invaded prc but brits can only take some small towns and japenese invaders can only reach no more than half of the size of terrority of china proper.......and people there never surrendered as a whole......until we kicked the japanese out of china with their offcial surrender....you need pics here??

while the area of india as a term created by brits was completely occupied by tiny UK whoses army in korea was by and large wasted in korean war when facing PLA.......talking about mongolia who indeed occupied the whole china for some decades but then got kicked out and defeated completely and became the tiny nation as you can see now.....did you indians try once to kick the UK???by saying english and becoming part of colonized commenwealth member??

vietnam held some chinese pows was coz our troops were in their country to make sure no one now can cross the border and inflict any damage to prc and mission was largely accomplished........but indians cant even win the war with smaller nations like bangladesh......when you sent your army to SL you got you PM blown up as the result......the only so called victory the 1971 war was a civil war in east pak......when face to face 1 to 1.....have you ever won a single war with pak who is ways smaller than india???

finally back to mongolia.....whose offspring....babur ruled india.....the muhgal empior was finally replaced by the british india.......who was actually ruled by mongolians for centuries????

 

[huaxia rox]

Just because the CCP has programmed you not to think, does not give you the liberty to demand others to be as dumb as you are!

if you got any specific point you can try making it clear........liberty or what ever.......

in my opinion 1962 war is simple (the cause of the war not the result)......indians thought they should have a say in tibet.....indians didnt want prc to control tibet so indians acted.......refused to recognize aksai chin a part of prc and keep zangnan (what a great deal)......and move your troops north till the north of M line.....

and then after the war indians complained they were unprepared.........i take it this way........a thief goes to rob and the home owner finds that and kicks the thief......the thief says his unprepared.........

of coz PLA wouldnt tell you when and where exactly the conter attack would begin......common sense in military actions........

so when you moving your asses to the north.....you ve prepared......but only for taking aksai chin......you didnt know PLA wouldnt let you do that..........so now you play like a victim of the war......how ever.....history wont lie......you were the invader back then......

 

[bose]

criminals in kashimir talking about tibet??you can talk.....and you can act.....and you also see the answer of your actions in 1962.......some 3000 pows.....

You are right the criminals are there up in the Aksai Chin that forms the part of the Kashmir,

Our action of 1962 is that we still hold the Arunachal Pradesh as Indian territory

china won all the wars in the 20th centry besides the one with sovit union which there was no winner as far as i am concerned.....and beating indians in 1962 was the easist job.....you need pics to show how your pows or japanese official representives surrendered??

1962 is long gone ... try it now if you have GUTS!!... Timid Chinese will never attack any one with even 1/5 its strength...

i need pics and links other than indian here......can you give.....a simple question......india is a lying country where your ISRO chief saying you got the best settallites in the world......so i need non indian sources here......

PLA ran away with their tail between their legs... Come out of China you will get lot of proof of Chinese hypocracies. and lies...

talking about war with small nations......the uk indeed invaded prc but brits can only take some small towns and japenese invaders can only reach no more than half of the size of terrority of china proper.......and people there never surrendered as a whole......until we kicked the japanese out of china with their offcial surrender....you need pics here??

Do not bring Japan here... forgot what they did to you in Nanjin ?? The population there must be half Japanese Now...

Japanese killed 30 million Chinese in WW-II. USA saved for Butt.. go be great full to USA

while the area of india as a term created by brits was completely occupied by tiny UK whoses army in korea was by and large wasted in korean war when facing PLA.......talking about mongolia who indeed occupied the whole china for some decades but then got kicked out and defeated completely and became the tiny nation as you can see now.....did you indians try once to kick the UK???by saying english and becoming part of colonized commenwealth member??

The PLA told you so ??? It is not your fault !! Typical Chinese IQ in display...

vietnam held some chinese pows was coz our troops were in their country to make sure no one now can cross the border and inflict any damage to prc and mission was largely accomplished........but indians cant even win the war with smaller nations like bangladesh......when you sent your army to SL you got you PM blown up as the result......the only so called victory the 1971 war was a civil war in east pak......when face to face 1 to 1.....have you ever won a single war with pak who is ways smaller than india???

We have thrashed Pakistan one-to-one in 1947... in 1965... in 1971 & very recently in 1999 ...

Do not compare India with China... China lost wars with smaller countries than itself likes of Japan & Vietnam... While India never lost to any smaller countries...

I hope all Chinese are not stupid like you...

finally back to mongolia.....whose offspring....babur ruled india.....the muhgal empior was finally replaced by the british india.......who was actually ruled by mongolians for centuries????

Do not show your stupidity here...

Going by your logic the whole of China belongs to Mongolia because they rules you for centuries...

 

[huaxia rox]

You are right the criminals are there up in the Aksai Chin that forms the part of the Kashmir,

Our action of 1962 is that we still hold the Arunachal Pradesh as Indian territory

kashmir always belongs to muslims.....if anything its a problem between prc and pak.....how that related tibet or zangnan??? because your RSS leader wanna take parts of tibet??? so you hindus gonna act??

1962 is long gone ... try it now if you have GUTS!!... Timid Chinese will never attack any one with even 1/5 its strength...

who cant say that??? mugal gone....brits gone....chinese gone.....bring it on now........right?? so who you can attack???? specificly??

[

]
PLA ran away with their tail between their legs... Come out of China you will get lot of proof of Chinese hypocracies. and lies...

well contry clamming it got the best settallites in the world cant give evidence as usual......you said lot of proof.....so show me one???

Do not bring Japan here... forgot what they did to you in Nanjin ?? The population there must be half Japanese Now...

Japanese killed 30 million Chinese in WW-II. USA saved for Butt.. go be great full to USA

dont talk about japanese??when chinese talking about india and prc its the indians always talk about japanese......i know boses army as pows largely joined japanese army but still they didnt last long........so who should stop in the 1st place......or.....stop or not??? i dont care.....i never frequently come up with mughal or brits that usual at least.....

you said the US helped prc in ww2....sure i agree....just like bangladeshs helped you in 1971.....otherwise how you two won the war???

The PLA told you so ??? It is not your fault !! Typical Chinese IQ in display...




We have thrashed Pakistan one-to-one in 1947... in 1965... in 1971 & very resiliently in 1999 ...

Do not compare India with China... China lost wars with smaller countries than itself likes of Japan & Vietnam... While India never lost to any smaller countries...

I hope all Chinese are not stupid like you...

you said you ve trashed pak......good.....make sure your parlement save 1st......who you gonna fool????

Do not show your stupidity here...

Going by your logic the whole of China belongs to Mongolia because they rules you for centuries...

mughal and the UK both ruled indians for centuries while mogolians only ruled several decades.....and the difference is han chinese kicked and defeated mongolians and created ming dynasty........while indians were ruled by brits because mughal was replaced....and uk was nevered defeated by indians.....

 

[Ray]

criminals in kashimir talking about tibet??you can talk.....and you can act.....and you also see the answer of your actions in 1962.......some 3000 pows.....

That was yesterday.

The Japanese taught you something in Nanking.

And as you claim, the Japanese massacred you Chinese as if your were verminous rats.

Would they be able to repeat the same?

china won all the wars in the 20th centry besides the one with sovit union which there was no winner as far as i am concerned.....and beating indians in 1962 was the easist job.....you need pics to show how your pows or japanese official representives surrendered??

Do not delude yourself.

Nanking was in the 2oth Century.

You could defeat the Japanese because of the US backing.

You tried to be leprechauns in Vietnam taking on a small country and you came a cropper.

So, stop hallucinating.

i need pics and links other than indian here......can you give.....a simple question......india is a lying country where your ISRO chief saying you got the best settallites in the world......so i need non indian sources here......

India cannot be a country that lies because we have a free press and the international media goes to every nook and corner of India.

In China you clam up every time there is a uprising.

Remember Tibet, where everything was closed down and all foreigners including tourists thrown out?

You are the Bamboo Curtain and none knows what atrocities that you commit.

Yet, it leaks out and you deny it by lying through your teeth!

talking about war with small nations......the uk indeed invaded prc but brits can only take some small towns and japenese invaders can only reach no more than half of the size of terrority of china proper.......and people there never surrendered as a whole......until we kicked the japanese out of china with their offcial surrender....you need pics here??

while the area of india as a term created by brits was completely occupied by tiny UK whoses army in korea was by and large wasted in korean war when facing PLA.......talking about mongolia who indeed occupied the whole china for some decades but then got kicked out and defeated completely and became the tiny nation as you can see now.....did you indians try once to kick the UK???by saying english and becoming part of colonized commenwealth member??

vietnam held some chinese pows was coz our troops were in their country to make sure no one now can cross the border and inflict any damage to prc and mission was largely accomplished........but indians cant even win the war with smaller nations like bangladesh......when you sent your army to SL you got you PM blown up as the result......the only so called victory the 1971 war was a civil war in east pak......when face to face 1 to 1.....have you ever won a single war with pak who is ways smaller than india???

finally back to mongolia.....whose offspring....babur ruled india.....the muhgal empior was finally replaced by the british india.......who was actually ruled by mongolians for centuries????

China did not surrender to the British or the Japanese, they crawled and knowtowed and because they were better people, they let you go.

I am not in the mood to read your fiction, but China is a failure and your own Govt admits it with its 100 years of National Shame theory!

As far as our wars with Pakistan, please read history and also the Pak Generals who lament Op Gibraltar and Kargil and the Hamdoor Rehman report.

 

[huaxia rox]

That was yesterday.

The Japanese taught you something in Nanking.

And as you claim, the Japanese massacred you Chinese as if your were verminous rats.

Would they be able to repeat the same?

yes like brits killed and raped indians.....Would they be able to repeat the same? or like PLA take your pows.....Would they be able to repeat the same?

what a question??

Do not delude yourself.

Nanking was in the 2oth Century.

You could defeat the Japanese because of the US backing.

You tried to be leprechauns in Vietnam taking on a small country and you came a cropper.

So, stop hallucinating.

did i ever say americans didnt help china in ww2....like bangldshes helped you in 1971 war???

India cannot be a country that lies because we have a free press and the international media goes to every nook and corner of India.

In China you clam up every time there is a uprising.

Remember Tibet, where everything was closed down and all foreigners including tourists thrown out?

You are the Bamboo Curtain and none knows what atrocities that you commit.

Yet, it leaks out and you deny it by lying through your teeth!

lying means you dont have evidence to prove what you are saying......you can easily india got the best settallites in the world.....but what are that?? evidence???

China did not surrender to the British or the Japanese, they crawled and knowtowed and because they were better people, they let you go.

I am not in the mood to read your fiction, but China is a failure and your own Govt admits it with its 100 years of National Shame theory!

As far as our wars with Pakistan, please read history and also the Pak Generals who lament Op Gibraltar and Kargil and the Hamdoor Rehman report.

uk and japnese let us go??? a new theory i must say.......so brits got defeated in korean war and japense surrendered us in both nanjing and beijing offically?? a let go???....i said letting some 3000 pows in indo-sino war is a real let go.....

 

[Ray]

Good that you have no credible answers but some rants.

You want proof from the Chinese, the most duplicitous nation in the world?

They supplied Islamic terrorists weapons and trained them too against the Soviets in Afghanistan and they never admitted the same.

You want proof for such a race?

 

[huaxia rox]

proof like what happened in 1987 as your people keep saying......

prc didnt supply weapons to islamic terrorists directly.......some china made weapons were found in their hands so were weapons made in russia and the US etc who can make weapons.....thats not something prc can control.....

 

[Ray]

proof like what happened in 1987 as your people keep saying......

prc didnt supply weapons to islamic terrorists directly.......some china made weapons were found in their hands so were weapons made in russia and the US etc who can make weapons.....thats not something prc can control.....

What happened in 1957. Let us know what the Chinese are taught about it.

China has supplied and trained terrorist in the conflict in Afghanistan against USSR.

Check from the book by Brig Yousaf of the ISI - The Bear Trap as also Cooley's Unholy War.

 

[t_co]

Good that you have no credible answers but some rants.

You want proof from the Chinese, the most duplicitous nation in the world?

They supplied Islamic terrorists weapons and trained them too against the Soviets in Afghanistan and they never admitted the same.

You want proof for such a race?

From the rules of the forum:

6. No hate messages based on religion, caste, and region is permitted. No racist comments are permitted based on color, creed, region or country. These will be dealt strictly.

Cool down.

 

[ice berg]

From the rules of the



Cool down.

You should know by now that mods of this forum are immune to their own rules.

 

[t_co]

You should know by now that mods of this forum are immune to their own rules.

I keep expecting these guys to hold themselves to the same standard as at sinodefenceforum.com, and they keep failing. At least at SDF they tell people explicitly not to bash India or Japan. What the heck is up with the Pak/China bashing that goes on all over this forum?

 

[Tolaha]

I keep expecting these guys to hold themselves to the same standard as at sinodefenceforum.com, and they keep failing. At least at SDF they tell people explicitly not to bash India or Japan. What the heck is up with the Pak/China bashing that goes on all over this forum?

Who owns SDF?

 

[ice berg]

I keep expecting these guys to hold themselves to the same standard as at sinodefenceforum.com, and they keep failing. At least at SDF they tell people explicitly not to bash India or Japan. What the heck is up with the Pak/China bashing that goes on all over this forum?

Different forums and different rules and enforcements. This is a private forum so they are not required to have the same standards as in some of the other forums. SDF among them.

 

[ersakthivel]

Very much so. Nehru's desire to get a territorial fait accompli done while pursuing diplomacy with China was a very big gamble. Indeed, it might have worked had the Cuban Missile Crisis not distracted both superpowers at once. Unfortunately, he couldn't foresee that China would get a one month window to solve the territorial dispute by force. As soon as China got that window, all his strategic cards--diplomatic backing, an approach of 'non-violent aggression'--became zeros or even strategic liabilities.

In the end, the fault doesn't lie with Nehru for having a bad plan or having weakness--the fault lies with him for either 1) not understanding India's own strengths and weaknesses properly or 2) being too lazy to create contingency plans in case diplomacy failed.

If there is one lesson that India has absorbed to heart now, it is to plan and plan for diplomacy to fail. The Sundarji and Cold Start doctrines both reflect that, and I have no doubt India has a realistic Sino-Indian war plan in place. However, India now has a different issue: it doesn't realize that its plans are obsolete in the face of nuclear weapons. Conventional aggression against a nuclear armed state on any level higher than the company or battalion--that is, higher than the tactical level--risks triggering MAD.

India needs to translate its doctrinal approach to figuring out non-military ways to resolve its territorial and existential problems, like crafting a set of cohesive economic levers to pull on vis a vis its neighbors--just look at, for example, how deftly China channels money to SE Asian elites (such as co-opting both the Royals and Thaksin Shinawatra in Thailand, or hiring hundreds of retired Pentagon and congressional officials to lobby on behalf of Chinese firms looking to buy American high-tech companies.) Unfortunately, I just don't think Indian politics has that requisite lack of moral scruple, absolute ruthlessness, and non-ethnic, non-religious, purely monetary thought process that goes with the current Chinese technocracy and that is necessary to pull a strategy like that off.

that is precisely the reason why India is not going to trust China, as soon as it gets a one month window china put it's cards on the table, So any one negotiating with china is doing it at his own risk.So that is what china is.

 

[huaxia rox]

What happened in 1957. Let us know what the Chinese are taught about it.

China has supplied and trained terrorist in the conflict in Afghanistan against USSR.

Check from the book by Brig Yousaf of the ISI - The Bear Trap as also Cooley's Unholy War.

dont know which 1957 are you talking about.....what i said is1987....1987����ӡ�߾���ͻ���ڶ�����ӡս����������_����Ƶ��_�л���

many chinese sources have mentioned that and of course in chinese language.....if you want to know something the world knows about your so called 'victory' and 'chinese run away' just visit this: 1987 Sino-Indian skirmish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which is similar to what chinese (who know some military things) know from our own sources.........

if you really talking about 1957....well 1959 is a more important point just like what this article i started with in the thread talks about

'Until 1959, India tried to diplomatically persuade Beijing to give some kind of autonomy to Tibet along with providing covert arms shipments to the Tibetan rebellion.'

.........


in terms of the ISI thing........ thats funny.....the period you talking about is when these millitants were called freedom fighters against soviet union...when even bin ladan got some medal from the US......they were not called islamic terrorists back then so prc didnt cooperate with or sell weapons to islamic terrorists.......

if you have to put that label on prc you should think of how weird indians are...... who used to cooperate with Muhammad Ali Jinnah till probably late 1930s.........