India Lost 1965 War

India Lost 1965 War?

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Dark Lord

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1965 war: How India almost lost to Pakistan
This is what Lt Gen Harbakhsh Singh had to say about the main thrust to Lahore that faltered on day one itself.
POLITICS
| The Bigger Picture | 4-minute read | 31-08-2015

Manoj Joshi

It is said that Indians pass off myth for history, while the Chinese mythologise their history. It is not surprising that both subcontinental cousins share the trait when it comes to the 1965 India-Pakistan war.

Pakistan has long celebrated September 6 as Defence of Pakistan (Youm-e Difa) Day. This was the day when, it says, it defended itself against the Indian Army that had been launched on three axes towards Lahore. For this myth to take life, they gloss over Operation Gibraltar, the attack on Kashmir by thousands of irregulars on August 5, and Operation Grand Slam of September 1 where Pakistan's six armoured divisions came close to cutting the highway connecting Jammu to Poonch.

The Indian myths are only being unveiled now, when the government has decided on a large-scale celebration of the event. A celebration implies an achievement, but if the truth be told, the Indian performance during the 1965 war was just a shade better than that of Pakistan. And in that was our victory.

This is what the commander of the main effort, Lt Gen Harbakhsh had to say about the main thrust to Lahore that faltered on day one itself, largely due to incompetent leadership of the division and its brigades.

Also read: Why Lt Gen Harbakhsh Singh's book on 1965 war is important to read today

Surprise attack

On September 6, XI Corps launched a surprise attack at 4am, led to the crossing of the Ichhogil canal and the capture of the Bata shoe factory on the outskirts of Lahore by 11am. But the senior commanders could not cope with the situation and ordered a withdrawal to the east bank of the canal by that evening.

Despite capturing some 140sq mi of land, and crippling Pakistan's 1st armoured division at Khem Karan, XI Corps performance, Singh says it was "a sickening repetition of command failures leading the sacrifice of a series of cheap victories."

The performance of India's premier I Corps, built around the 1st armoured division, was no less disappointing. I Corps captured 200sq mi of territory and destroyed a great deal of Pakistani armour. But it did not deliver what it was meant to - a decisive battlefield victory.

"With the exception of a few minor successes… The operational performance was virtually a catalogue of lost victories." Singh praised the performance of units like the Poona Horse, but was harsh in his judgement of the higher commanders.

Harbakhsh's third corps - the XV Corps, which then, as now, looks after Kashmir, fared better. It gained an unambiguous victory in capturing the Haji Pir Pass and in defeating Operation Gibraltar.

However, it was battered by the surprise attack launched by Pakistan in the Chamb sector on September 1. India also launched an offensive in the Rajasthan sector with a view of tying down Pakistani forces in Sind. But the plan was poorly conceived and executed. There was no joint planning, leave alone coordination, between the Air Force and the Army. This led to the Lahore fiasco when Pakistani air strikes disrupted the Indian offensive on September 6.

Despite seeing action on September 1 in Chamb, the IAF was unprepared for the strike on September 6 when the Pakistan air force (PAF) destroyed 13 aircrafts in a raid on Pathankot, including two new MiG-21s. Similar raids found the IAF station Kalaikunda in the east unawares leading to the destruction of eight aircraft on the ground.

Shoddy intelligence

Intelligence was equally shoddy. India failed to pick up the fact that the Pakistanis had surreptitiously raised an additional armoured division and the IAF could not locate the PAF aircraft in East Pakistan.

There are of course, bigger questions. Indian accounts claim that there was no plan to capture Lahore. If not, then why were three divisions thrown at it? And if the plan was to just carry out shallow attrition attacks, it nearly came a cropper in Khem Karan when Pakistan launched its 1st armoured division in a bid to reach the Beas bridge that would have cut off Amritsar. Fortunately, they were trapped at Asal Uttar and defeated.

Biggest blunder

Perhaps the biggest blunder India made was to terminate the war when it did by accepting the UN mandated ceasefire on September 22, which also happened to be the date in which the Chinese ultimatum expired.

While these were important considerations, Prime Minister Lal Bahadur Shastri wanted to know from Army chief JN Chaudhuri whether India could gain any great victory if it continued to fight. In his typically offhand style, the general declared that India had run out of ammunition and it would be okay to accept the ceasefire.

But later it was found out that only 14 per cent of the front line ammunition had been used and the number of tanks India still had was double that of Pakistan.

We can still be proud of the bravery and grit of our fighting men in 1965, but we can only pray that the higher management of our armed forces has improved.
 
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Dark Lord

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This is perhaps biggest lie being told by our government. The truth about 1965 war. The only full scale war that we ever fought with pakistan that too ended in ambiguity.

Please read the article and vote.

Please exercise your free speech down below.

What do you think happened? India lost? Pak lost? Both lost?
 

Dark Lord

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We won the 1965 war, not India'

September 06, 2005

During the 1965 war, I was working with the Nawa-e-Waqt daily in Lahore. Since August 1965, Kashmir was on the boil. India alleged Pakistan had sent raiders who were indulging in mischief. Pakistan claimed it was a local uprising against India's atrocities. The issue was raised in international forums too.

During the midnight between September 5 and September 6, India crossed the Lahore border, despite assurances at international forums that it would not cross international borders.

The next day, then Pakistan President Ayub Khan addressed the nation and said, 'We are at war with India.'

Pakistanis consider it one of the most memorable and historic speeches by a Pakistan President. 'India has dared to go to war with a people whose hearts are filled with the message of Kalama of Quran that says there is no one like Prophet Mohammed: the Prophet of Allah.' Khan said. 'We will never tolerate such attacks. Our army has been sent to borders and you too must be ready and form the second line of defence.'

It was a special moment in Pakistan's history. It was when we became a nation. A wave of emotion inundated Pakistanis from Karachi to Lahore to East Pakistan (now Bangladesh). People came out in big numbers to participate in rallies in support of the army.

Every Pakistani wanted to contribute. Poets wrote nationalistic poetry. The radio became the medium of the masses. Television was accessible only in Lahore. Popular singer Mallika-e-Tarnoom Noor Jehan went to the Lahore television station, requesting them to allow her to sing for Pakistan.

Amidst the groundswell of emotion, everybody -- rulers and Opposition -- were united. That was the way it was throughout the war. It was the first full-scale war. In 1947 we saw a few skirmishes and war in pockets but this time we saw India attacking us on the International Border.

There is evidence to prove India crossed the International Border first, not us.

India's stand was that Pakistan was involved in the uprising in Kashmir. Pakistan's stand was that Kashmir is a disputed territory and whatever happens in Kashmir cannot be dubbed as a war.

Before the war started, there were skirmishes in the Rann of Kutch. The then Indian prime minister Lal Bahadur Shastri had said, 'We will open the front of our choice.' All this is recorded history and books have been written on it as well.

The then Indian chief of army staff Joyanto Nath Chowdhuri had said: 'I'll have a bada (large) peg in the Lahore Gymkhana.'

We have evidence that the Indian Army had crossed the Wagah border in Punjab and arrived in Batapur. The Pakistani people believed India would not cross the International Border, so we were not prepared for the war. Somehow, Indians thought it must be a trap, so they retreated. There was severe criticism of the Pakistan government for leaving the Lahore border unprotected.

It was a conventional war: tanks against tanks, aircraft against aircraft. After three or four days of Indian attack near Lahore we got fresh news that Pakistan had managed to attack the Khemkaran sector in Indian Punjab, there was heavy war in Sindh too.

People always wanted to hear news of the war from Shakeel Ahmed, a radio announcer whose strong, resonant voice is still remembered. He was always asked to read the news of the war on radio.

Raees Amrohi, older brother to Kamal Amrohi (husband of Indian actress Meena Kumari), wrote a poem on Lahore: 'Hey Lahore, I salute the people who are dying for you.'

The omnipresent anti-India feelings increased. Hostility and enmity against India solidified with the 1965 war because the British had casually sketched our country's border but it was the first time we gave blood to the borders.

From 1947 to 1965, Bengalis or Punjabis would prevail in Pakistan. We were struggling to become a nation. But during the 1965 war all of us were one: Pakistanis.

Nishan-E-Haider (Pakistan's highest military award) Aziz Bhatti became our hero. He died defending the lines near Lahore and became a legend. Many novels have been written on him.

Outside the Lahore radio station a post box was kept in which people would submit patriotic poetry. I wrote poetry too. A poem I wrote for the Pakistan Air Force became very popular:

Yeh hawa ke rahion/Yeh badalon ke sathion/Harfanshan Mujahidon/Apni jaan pe khel kar/Tum bane salamati

The war lasted till September 22, 1965, when a ceasefire was declared due to the intervention of the United Nations.

Our then foreign minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto gave a very emotional speech at the UN Security Council. 'If needed, for Kashmir we would fight a war for a thousand years,' he declared.

When he made the speech, most Pakistani cities were under blackout. To this day, every Pakistani remembers that speech on the radio.

I remember we were taken to the Wagah border for reporting and we collected some used shells and packets of Indian cigarettes. We were also taken to Khemkaran. We felt proud to see the battleground where we won.

Even Time magazine reported that 'despite claims from both sides the awkward fact is Khemkaran is under Pakistan administration.'

Iran supported us but America didn't upgrade/replace the arms we were using against India. China famously declared that India should behave otherwise their ships will sail. It was a symbolic statement, which alarmed India.

Many Pakistan Army men have said that the 1965 war happened at the wrong time and we suffered political losses.

After World War II, the biggest tank battle was fought in Chawinda in Sialkot district. Books have been written on that battle. Pakistan claims its soldiers tied bombs to their bodies and destroyed the Indian tanks.

When the ceasefire was announced, both sides were trying to capture maximum land at the last moment to strengthen their bargaining position after the war. In February 1966, Ayub Khan and Shastri met at Tashkent in what is now Uzbekistan. Bhutto, as foreign minister, expressed his disagreement. Later, he quit and said, 'Whatever we earned in the battleground we lost on the talks table.' Tashkent is a controversial chapter in Pakistan's history books.

It was decided that on the International Border pre-war positions should be held. Our history has always believed and will believe that we won the 1965 war but we lost the 1971 war because of military and political reasons.

After the war, in East Pakistan, people turned against the Pakistan Army. So the focus turned from valour and pride to these problems. East Pakistanis felt they were left unsecured during the war. China had assured us it would help protect East Pakistan. But the people in East Pakistan felt unprotected.

Unrest in East Pakistan started after that period. East Pakistan Rifles fought against India: and fought very well. At least during the 1965 war both sides of Pakistan were united.

Ayub Khan's political strength also weakened. Like Winston Churchill, he won the war but lost the elections after the war. The US was also against Khan.

Bhutto got the momentum and support. But he didn't get as much support in East Pakistan. It was evident that the image of the two leaders did not resonate much in the East.

Even after 40 years Pakistanis remember the war with India because we have many memorials and we pay homage to them on September 6. Many ceremonies are held in memory of the martyrs. September 6 is our Defence Day. Newspapers publish special supplements and there are special radio and television programmes in memory of the dead.

The only change in our memory is that in a few government publications the word 'enemy' has replaced 'India'!

Previously we used to say 'India did this and that.' Now, after the Shimla Agreement, we say 'the enemy had done this and that.' With the passage of time, September 6 is not so much about India's aggression in 1965 but more a day to fete our defence forces.

Mahmood Shaam, group editor, Jang group of publications, Pakistan, seen above with General Pervez Musharraf
 

Dark Lord

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1965: You didn’t win the war India, but neither did we, Pakistan
By Tanveer Khadim Published: September 6, 2015


182 Comments Print Email

In the last 50 years, both India and Pakistan have claimed their respective victories on the basis of their own proclamations.

There is no doubt that the 1965 Indo-Pak war over the status of Jammu and Kashmir ended in a United Nations (UN) mandated truce that compelled India to accept the ceasefire on September 21, 1965 while Pakistan agreed to it on September 22, 1965.

The Tashkent peace agreement constrained Indian Prime Minister Lal Bahadur Shastri and Pakistani President Ayub Khan to quit all territorial claims and pull back their armies from the disputed terrain to pre-conflict positions by February 25, 1966.

Although it is also evident that the conflict was halted with a truce due to the policies of the US and the Soviet Union – who were engaged in the Cold War at the time – both rival neighbours, Pakistan and India, still claim victory against each other.


In thelast 50 years, both India and Pakistan haveclaimed their respective victories on the basis of their own proclamations. Neither of the sides is ready to admit each other’s assertion, which is mostly based on home-grown broadcasting. Local newspapers of both countries are not a genuine source for any authentication as media outlets were highly influenced by official policies of the time, particularly about war coverage. Hence, it is really difficult to find precise and genuine facts and figures about the real nature of the 1965 war due to the limited media coverage of the war in South Asia. However, international media’s reporting and independent journalists’ commentary is a great source to understand the must-know details of the battle.

The Indo-Pak war of 1965 witnessed extensive aerial combat with defensive and offensive operations. Operation Dwarka, a noteworthy naval attack by Pakistan Navy and the battle of Chawinda in Sialkot sector, the largest tank battle after World War II, were the highlights of the battle.


Photo: Native Pakistani


Photo: Native Pakistani

In wake of these events, India and Pakistan formulated generally conflicting explanations and testimonies about the destruction they perpetrated as well as the losses they suffered during the confrontation.

I do not want to delve into the details of each and every operation that was conducted during the war. Instead, for neutral assessments, I would like to mention some of the excerpts from the foreign media’s war-reporting of the 1965 war. Some of these have been documented in great detail.

An American weekly Newsweek magazine applauded the tactics of Pakistan’s armed forces who repulsed the attack by large Indian army and defended its territory.

“By just the end of the week, in fact, it was clear that the Pakistanis were more than holding their own.”

A very interesting opinion was written byDonald Seaman for Daily Express (London) on September 24, 1965:

“Outnumbered three-to-one, they beat the Indians to a standstill, and were about to mount a counter attack in the last six hours before the ceasefire when they were stopped on political grounds.”

In their book, ‘Conflict in Asia: Korea, China-Taiwan, and India-Pakistan’ (2003), Uk Heo and Shale Asher Horowitz concluded,

“Again India appeared, logistically at least, to be in a superior position but neither side was able to mobilise enough strength to gain a decisive victory.”

In thechapter ‘Of Cowardice and Panic’ of his book1965 War, the Inside Story: Defence Minister YB Chavan’s Diary of India-Pakistan War’, RD Pradhan openly wrote the account of Indian Defence Minister from his day-to-day diary:


Photo: Amazon.com

Rob Johnson in his bookA region in turmoil: South Asian conflicts since 1947stated,

“India’s strategic aims were modest – it aimed to deny Pakistani Army victory, although it ended up in possession of 720 square miles (1,900 kilometres square) of Pakistani territory for the loss of just 220 square miles (570 kilometres square) of its own.

The Time Magazine’s correspondent Louis Karrar wrote in a war dispatch on September 22, 1965,

“Who can defeat a nation which knows to play hide and seek with death? Playing with fire to these men – from the Jawan to the General Officer Commanding – was like children playing with marbles in the streets. I asked the GOC, how is it that despite small number you are overpowering the Indians? He looked at me, smiled and said: If courage, bravery and patriotism was purchasable commodities, then India could have got them along with foreign aid.”

Roy Meloni, a journalist of American Broadcasting Corporation summed up the events of the war on September 15, 1965 as follows,

“I have been journalist now for 20 years and want to go on record that I have never seen a more confident and victorious group of soldiers than those fighting for Pakistan, right now.”

Patrick Seale, a Belfast-born British journalist and author for The Observer, wrote about the air combat between India and Pakistan (September 12, 1965),

“Pakistan’s success in the air means that she has been able to redeploy her relatively small army – professionally among the best in Asia – with impurity, plugging gaps in the long front in the face of each Indian thrust.”

According to a Daily Mirror correspondent (September 15, 1965),

“And there is the smell of death in the burning Pakistan sun. For it was here that India’s attacking forces came to a dead stop. Screaming Pakistani troops bet off the attacking Indian forces again and again.”

Guardian’s journalist, Peter Preston, wrote on September 24, 1965 about the air strikes of Pakistan Air Force during the1965 war,

One thing I am convinced of is that Pakistan morally and even physically won the air battle against immense odds.”

The Time Weekly published the following assertion on September 17, 1965 about the aerial warfare of Pakistan Air Force,

“In the air, it was much the same story – Indian quantity and Pakistan quality. In the short run, Pakistan’s small, highly trained army is more than a match for the Indians.”

At the end of the 17-day war, huge personnel, economic losses and strategic blunders by both India and Pakistan confirmed that the Indo-Pak war of 1965 ended in a stalemate and none of the rivals were eventually declared asvictors of the combat zone. The Tashkent Declaration wounded up the affairs of all the armed consequences of the 1965 war.

From the aforementioned excerpts, it is evident that despite what is said nowadays, the Pakistani Army has given its nation and the people enough to write home about.

http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/2...in-the-war-india-but-neither-did-we-pakistan/
 

xeaaex

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Pak lost the war because they had napli nasle, sab sale inbreeding ke wajha se naple nikle upar se maine suna hai paki uunt ka moot pite?
 

Dark Lord

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Do you at least consider the possibility that both nations are being used as pawns by the superpowers?
Exactly my point. We are duped by USA to kill each other. Yet some stupid people celebrate this fact.

I still don't understand this nonsense hurling abuse at Islam. Please people be secular. Why bring Islam in India pak discussions?
 

Flame Thrower

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@Dark Lord

Why do you threads on fake news....

What is your point c'mon. You think you could change past by these threads. We are way above your ISPR propaganda.

Why are you posting conflicting articles....

Post 1, 3 and 4 contradict each other.

By the way how did you guage whether an army won the war ou not.

An army is said to win the war if it has achieved all the objectives. Your Paki army acheived none. Operation Grand Slam to cut of Kashmir failed, operation to defend Lahore failed. Lost over 1800 sq km to IA and on verge of loosing captured over 500 sq km from IA. Your Paki elite, went to UN begged to stop advancing IA. Thus cease fire was declared.
 

Dovah

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@Dark Lord

Why do you threads on fake news....

What is your point c'mon. You think you could change past by these threads. We are way above your ISPR propaganda.

Why are you posting conflicting articles....

Post 1, 3 and 4 contradict each other.

By the way how did you guage whether an army won the war ou not.

An army is said to win the war if it has achieved all the objectives. Your Paki army acheived none. Operation Grand Slam to cut of Kashmir failed, operation to defend Lahore failed. Lost over 1800 sq km to IA and on verge of loosing captured over 500 sq km from IA. Your Paki elite, went to UN begged to stop advancing IA. Thus cease fire was declared.
Generations of inbreeding has made him retarded.

Remove Kebab.
 

Dark Lord

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@Dark Lord

Why do you threads on fake news....

What is your point c'mon. You think you could change past by these threads. We are way above your ISPR propaganda.

Why are you posting conflicting articles....

Post 1, 3 and 4 contradict each other.

By the way how did you guage whether an army won the war ou not.

An army is said to win the war if it has achieved all the objectives. Your Paki army acheived none. Operation Grand Slam to cut of Kashmir failed, operation to defend Lahore failed. Lost over 1800 sq km to IA and on verge of loosing captured over 500 sq km from IA. Your Paki elite, went to UN begged to stop advancing IA. Thus cease fire was declared.
This is just perspective outside our sold out Indian media. If you think we Indians won 1965 please explain how? What did we capture? What happened to all those paki prisoners of war?
 

Filtercoffee

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These articles are after effects of incursions of overt and covert nature and a complete loss of faith from supporters of Pakistan military. Please dont think much into it, as in the future vocabulary and labels would only suggest a depressed writing group. If they choose and are allowed to take the international border seriously and to the T; then it will be a great victory for their military and militia as I hope we dont want any more higher feelings among ours.
 
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