India increases millitary budget or shut up?

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houde10000

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"China is a huge threat to India" has appeared in your newspaper million time

Houde,
I didnt understand your line of arguement, plz enlighten me. You are saying that China has a military budget of 100000000000000000000000000. Fine. Then you are asking whether India will increase its budget or not. If India doesn not increase the budget to your satisfaction, you want India to shut up! What is this strange logic.

Why should India increase or decrease its military(or any other field) budget depending on China's budget? Are you saying that China is a huge threat to its neighbours and the neighbours must increase their military budget in proportion with that of China? Are you saying that a country does not have a right to vent its views if it does not have huge military budgets?

When we say that India is a free country. But how is that related to keeping this thread open? I am unable to understand. Plz clear my ignorant doubts and explain your point properly.
It doesn't need I tell you "China is a huge threat to India", your newspaper has said million time, when you test nuclear weapon, China threat is the only excuse, when you anounce long range missile, reach Beijing, Shanghai is the only celeberation threshold. Can you guys please point out one Chinese newspaper, one Chinese government stie, mention Chinese nuclear weapon purpose is for attacking India? Chinese long range missile is for attach New Deli? You still feed Chinese traitor DALAI in India, should Chinese also provide fund and weapon to Indian separatist? As I know there are many separat forces in India as religious, race, etc. reasons. If you keep to treat China as enemy, what you think you will get from China?

That's why I ask you do you think you can increase your millitary budget to a reasonable level to beat China. If not, do you think it is time to change yourself?

There are too many bias in your forum!!
 

houde10000

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I have read it

Had you read the second post of this thread?
Thanks for your reminding, I did read it.

1) I am Chinese living in US, spent my half life in China and Half in US/Canada, Read both English and Chinese media, nobody can brain wash me. I have many Indian colleague and friends in US, I know a lot about India, good things and bad things.

2) I don't think I break any forum rule, compare "Ugly Face of China", my word is very gentle, If it still offend you, I apologize.
 

NikSha

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Really dude, what's your fascination with India and the military budget? Your post doesn't make any sense. India is a free country but these forums are private and like anything privately funded/controlled, you cannot cannot tell anyone to keep your thread open or not.

Are you trying to boast? 90% equipment made in china? That's nice (it's a different matter that how much of it is based on stolen blueprints from US). You have a bigger budget? Oh wow, that's even better, spend billions more, good luck with that. I am sure you will soon takeover the world, just like you have takeover India... OH WAIT!!

So yeah, like I said in your previous (now closed) thread, unless China declares war on India and has balls to actually attack India, all this budget talk is just you showing off your e-penis. We are NOT into that..

India has to look forward to become economically strong while countries around it are busy making deals with terrorists or aiding them to become another Pakistan. We have a lot more worries than spending 200 gazillion on military only just to compete with some random nation.
 

Yusuf

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Will that be all from you houde? Or you have more to add?
 

johnee

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It doesn't need I tell you "China is a huge threat to India", your newspaper has said million time, when you test nuclear weapon, China threat is the only excuse, when you anounce long range missile, reach Beijing, Shanghai is the only celeberation threshold. Can you guys please point out one Chinese newspaper, one Chinese government stie, mention Chinese nuclear weapon purpose is for attacking India? Chinese long range missile is for attach New Deli? You still feed Chinese traitor DALAI in India, should Chinese also provide fund and weapon to Indian separatist? As I know there are many separat forces in India as religious, race, etc. reasons. If you keep to treat China as enemy, what you think you will get from China?

That's why I ask you do you think you can increase your millitary budget to a reasonable level to beat China. If not, do you think it is time to change yourself?

There are too many bias in your forum!!
Houde Sir,
Yes, India sees China as a potential threat in the near future. We had a bitter experience of trusting you guys in 1962, so we dont want to be caught with our pants down again. The Indian Nukes are minimum deterrant to China's adventurism. Thats all, there is no need to read anything more into the India Nuclear strategy.

As for hosting His Holiness Dalai Lama is concerned, it is because we historically believe that Tibet was an independent country occupied by China. Inspite of that prevalent belief India has accepted Tibet as a part of China, but and this is important, we will not accept tibetans being treated as second-class citizens in their own country. India has backed the just demands of His Holiness Dalai Lama for a autonomy to Tibet.
Anyway, why are you complaining? China is also helping India's enemy Pakistan. You are helping our enemy and we are helping your adversary. Equal equal.

As for the bias of this forum, you maybe right. This forum may be biased. But you are given a chance to present your viewpoint and try and change that bias. So, go ahead and present your viewpoint but sans the flamebaiting.
 

Yusuf

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Houde,
If the only thing you want to know is will we increase our defense spending? The answer is yes. Will we spend 100 or 200 billion? The answer is no we will not. We have our own assessment and requirements and we are spending on that. We dont have to commit more than what is required.
The government of India is answerable to it's people regarding expenditure, unlike your country. They will not allow any wasteful expense or anything above what is required.
 

nitesh

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Thanks for your reminding, I did read it.

1) I am Chinese living in US, spent my half life in China and Half in US/Canada, Read both English and Chinese media, nobody can brain wash me. I have many Indian colleague and friends in US, I know a lot about India, good things and bad things.

2) I don't think I break any forum rule, compare "Ugly Face of China", my word is very gentle, If it still offend you, I apologize.
I just reminded you to indulge in "quality discussion" not running a rhetoric. Have you read my reply to your question?
 

.v0id

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Thanks for your reminding, I did read it.

1) I am Chinese living in US, spent my half life in China and Half in US/Canada, Read both English and Chinese media, nobody can brain wash me. I have many Indian colleague and friends in US, I know a lot about India, good things and bad things.

2) I don't think I break any forum rule, compare "Ugly Face of China", my word is very gentle, If it still offend you, I apologize.

There is nothing apologize. He just ask you a simple thing.

why india needs to spend as much as you spend? he didnt ask you about where do you live.

I think you have to know some things.

First of all territories by area.Area (km2)

India: 3,287,263
China: 9,640,821


Armed Forces.(In Thousands)

India
Active: 1,325
Reserve: 1,155

China
Active: 2,250
Reserve: 800


Now tell me, you need massive budget for big area and for big armed forces. China is about 3 times bigger then india in territory area.

And in war scenario you just want the best weapon, whether its imported or indigenous.
 

Flint

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houde, Dalai Lama is a nobel peace prize winner and one of the most respected public figures in the world. Too bad that the Chinese government does not think so.
Even if India were to tow the Chinese line and arrest this so-called terrorist, we would be stiffly opposed by the US and the EU, which are, atleast for now, the dominant forces in this world.

Regarding India trying to match Chinese firepower, we are unable to do so, but we have enough resources to defend our territory, and maintain an independent foreign policy, which includes taking decisions like the one to give sanctuary to the Dalai Lama.

If China thinks it can arm-twist India, it is welcome to try.
 

houde10000

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appreiciate your serious reply

Houde Sir,
Yes, India sees China as a potential threat in the near future. We had a bitter experience of trusting you guys in 1962, so we dont want to be caught with our pants down again. The Indian Nukes are minimum deterrant to China's adventurism. Thats all, there is no need to read anything more into the India Nuclear strategy.

As for hosting His Holiness Dalai Lama is concerned, it is because we historically believe that Tibet was an independent country occupied by China. Inspite of that prevalent belief India has accepted Tibet as a part of China, but and this is important, we will not accept tibetans being treated as second-class citizens in their own country. India has backed the just demands of His Holiness Dalai Lama for a autonomy to Tibet.
Anyway, why are you complaining? China is also helping India's enemy Pakistan. You are helping our enemy and we are helping your adversary. Equal equal.

As for the bias of this forum, you maybe right. This forum may be biased. But you are given a chance to present your viewpoint and try and change that bias. So, go ahead and present your viewpoint but sans the flamebaiting.
1) The world is very small, there is no choice, China and India have to live as neighbour. It can be good neighbour, also can be bad neighbour, the choice is in Indian's hand. India planed to invade Chinese Tibet region right after she got independent in 1947, when Chinese army fought in Korea with US, Indian troop take advantage to steal our land, 1959, 60, 61, Chinese premier Zhou Enlai fly to New Deli many time to pursuade Indian premier Nehru stop his "forward policy" to take Chinese Land at south of McMahon line, Nehru refuse to talk, he told report what indian troop take, finaly will be accepted by Chinese, that's is pirate logic, even your master, British has never taken that land, who you are? The result is clear and painful: India lost the war, Nehur lost his power and died, India lost the third world leader position, India lost the opportunity to be a member of UNSC. China didn't involve the war between Pakistan and India before 1962, but India feed DALAI from 1959 and invaded Chinese land from 1947, You can clearly see who provocate first? China didn't lose anything from the war except the 90,000 square kilo land ( For that, I really don't understand and don't agree with Chairman Mao, why he has to give the land to indian, it is stupid idea to win friendship by giving our land. Anyway, no border in human history is fixed, none changable). You are right, we support Pakistan, Pakistan is Chinese close friend and brother, without Chinese support, I am sure India can easily beat Pakistan. That's your stupid premier's choice.

As I know, Chinese never really think India is a big threat, our millitary target is not India at all, but if you keep treat China as enemy, anything could happen in future, maybe we seriously think India is a big threat to us, we may support your separatist, give them money and weapon, let's India break into 100 peices. ( I don't really want to see that happen)

Dalai Lama, himself is nobody, anyone was announced by Chinese central government with Dalai Lama Title will have his Holiness power. Current Dalai was born in Qinghai, a no-doubt Chinese province, his parents only speak mandarin, in my opinion, he is a 100% Chinese citizen at that time. He was chosen acoording to tradional religious rule and protected to Lasa, capital of Tebit region, and finally was anounced by Chinese Central government as 14th Dala Lama in 1946(?). That's totally it is Chinese domestic issue. If India is friend of China, you won't follow British to use Dalai as tool to separate our country. Dalai is peaceful person, that's holy shit, he is mediaeval slave master, he is traitor. And please remember Tibetan is also Chinese.

If Dalai really lookinf for a autonomy to Tibet, then we can talk about that, but he is not, he just want to be tool to attack his motherland. He asks for a big Tibet, which almost 1/4 of China land, his region had never been that big even before he fled to India, If you was us, do you think we can accept that.
 

houde10000

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Tell you some truth

houde, Dalai Lama is a nobel peace prize winner and one of the most respected public figures in the world. Too bad that the Chinese government does not think so.
Even if India were to tow the Chinese line and arrest this so-called terrorist, we would be stiffly opposed by the US and the EU, which are, atleast for now, the dominant forces in this world.

Regarding India trying to match Chinese firepower, we are unable to do so, but we have enough resources to defend our territory, and maintain an independent foreign policy, which includes taking decisions like the one to give sanctuary to the Dalai Lama.

If China thinks it can arm-twist India, it is welcome to try.
1) Dalai parents have 16 children, and only 9 survived, that Dalai's family, over 40% children died bofore they grow up. How about normal Tibet family? I give 50%, do you agree it is reasonable number? Current in Tibet, health insurance cover everyone, children die rate is lower than 1%.

2) In Dalai time, there is only 0.9 million Tibetan living in Tibetan, currently there are over 2.6 millions Tibetan there. Tibetan doesn't follow 1 child birth control policy, they can have as many children as they want. But i have to remember you, Tibet has very limited nature resouce to support that much poeple.

3) There are over 1000 Lama religious temple, and over 60,000 monks and nuns, about 5% of Tibetan population. It is really funny, Chinese government has to pay monks and nuns salary!! that's why Chinese government somehow has to control the number of monks and nuns.

4) In Dalai time, 5% top Lama and landlord own most of Tibetan land, 95% of Tibetan people are slave, their master can sale their wife, daughtor, can kill him, and torture him, there are hundred atrocity torture tools were used by Lama and master to persecute Tibetan. The Tibetan following Dalai Lama fled to India in 1959, mostly are high monks or master, have you talked to or hear from normal Tibetan slave family? I am sure you will hear different story.

5) byway, Dalai Lama used to sale his shit as medicine to his Tibetan people, that too disguss, our government forbid that, maybe it also count 1 case to destory Tibetan tradional cuture.
 

NikSha

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..and I thought pakistanis were the paranoid lot..

I bet I have seen this guy post in some pakistani forums. Only they can take Chinese seriously.
 

F-14

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1) The world is very small, there is no choice, China and India have to live as neighbour. It can be good neighbour, also can be bad neighbour, the choice is in Indian's hand. India planed to invade Chinese Tibet region right after she got independent in 1947, when Chinese army fought in Korea with US, Indian troop take advantage to steal our land, 1959, 60, 61, Chinese premier Zhou Enlai fly to New Deli many time to pursuade Indian premier Nehru stop his "forward policy" to take Chinese Land at south of McMahon line, Nehru refuse to talk, he told report what indian troop take, finaly will be accepted by Chinese, that's is pirate logic, even your master, British has never taken that land, who you are? The result is clear and painful: India lost the war, Nehur lost his power and died, India lost the third world leader position, India lost the opportunity to be a member of UNSC. China didn't involve the war between Pakistan and India before 1962, but India feed DALAI from 1959 and invaded Chinese land from 1947, You can clearly see who provocate first? China didn't lose anything from the war except the 90,000 square kilo land ( For that, I really don't understand and don't agree with Chairman Mao, why he has to give the land to indian, it is stupid idea to win friendship by giving our land. Anyway, no border in human history is fixed, none changable). You are right, we support Pakistan, Pakistan is Chinese close friend and brother, without Chinese support, I am sure India can easily beat Pakistan. That's your stupid premier's choice.

As I know, Chinese never really think India is a big threat, our millitary target is not India at all, but if you keep treat China as enemy, anything could happen in future, maybe we seriously think India is a big threat to us, we may support your separatist, give them money and weapon, let's India break into 100 peices. ( I don't really want to see that happen)

Dalai Lama, himself is nobody, anyone was announced by Chinese central government with Dalai Lama Title will have his Holiness power. Current Dalai was born in Qinghai, a no-doubt Chinese province, his parents only speak mandarin, in my opinion, he is a 100% Chinese citizen at that time. He was chosen acoording to tradional religious rule and protected to Lasa, capital of Tebit region, and finally was anounced by Chinese Central government as 14th Dala Lama in 1946(?). That's totally it is Chinese domestic issue. If India is friend of China, you won't follow British to use Dalai as tool to separate our country. Dalai is peaceful person, that's holy shit, he is mediaeval slave master, he is traitor. And please remember Tibetan is also Chinese.

If Dalai really lookinf for a autonomy to Tibet, then we can talk about that, but he is not, he just want to be tool to attack his motherland. He asks for a big Tibet, which almost 1/4 of China land, his region had never been that big even before he fled to India, If you was us, do you think we can accept that.


in india we have a saying that Goes like this" there is no use reading the vedas to a Bull in a mad rage" i think that you fit that catagory
the British Indian Empier was a power in its onw right so under standing international law all the Borders drawn by the BIE shall pass to successor states and dependencies of the Fomer BIE and this is equally binding on all the signator of the Shimala Conference Viz Viz
Qin China (China) BIE (India) and the Prestdom of Tibet (Occupied Tibet)
but the PRC Is in vilation of this basic of International laws so you have no right to crap about this matter as for AP or NEFA it also was agreed in the Shimala Conference that the territory of AP will be accede to the BIE so that is also out of the qustion and as for the Invasison part who the hell told you that it was you who backstabbed us it is an open secret that the IRP is a Proxy and Quasi Province of the PRC on the NWborders of india but be forwarned you are feeding a king cobra and it shall bite you and it wont be pretty
 

houde10000

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In fact, you are wrong, that's my first time on Indian/Pakistan Forum

..and I thought pakistanis were the paranoid lot..

I bet I have seen this guy post in some pakistani forums. Only they can take Chinese seriously.
You are right, that's my first time on Indian/ Pakistan Forum.
 

Pintu

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^^^ Very well, my friend therefore please stop spreading hatred here in this forum by the name of asking the question.

Regards
 

Singh

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If India as you guys always say a free country, please leave my thread open, it may not be orphean, but it is truth.
India is a free country, yes, but then again it has limits. You are not free to fornicate in public for eg.

And please note this forum is not INDIA and in this forum, DFI, rules are strictly enforced some of which can be arbitrarily enforced and can infringe on your perceived "freedom".

As Chinese government announced 2009 Chinese millitary budget is over 70 billion dollar, plus hidden millitary budget, the number will be at least over 140 billion dollar.
What is your source of the hidden budget ? or you are conjuring it up from thin air ?

If Chinese millitary budget keeps the same double digital increasing rate (15%), the number will reach 300 billion dollar around 2015 easily.
any reputable source to back up your assumption ? In this time of economic downturn, do you think China will keep on increasing its budget ?

Oh, forget to count Chinese Yuan currency exchanging rate increasing, let say 3% each year, the number will reach crazy 400 billion dollar around 2015?!
How did you come to this figure ? why not -3% ? And does Chinese budget depend upon currency fluctuation ?

How about Indian millitary budget? 10 billion? 20 billion?
Indian budget will be increased or decreased depending upon the requirements and the vision set out. If I am not wrong a good portion of the Indian budget goes unspent and is returned to the treasury.

Over 90% Chinese army equipments are made in China, which is much cheaper than Indian army equipments.
which is inferior to western made equipment, and chinese forces are much larger.

Correct me, over 50% Indian army equipment are imported, even rifle bullet has to buy from Isaril? 20 billion dollar is enough to beat Chinese PLA?
Depends upon bullet, the Tavor bullets are imported from Singapore for eg.

Importing certain items doesn't make them cheaper or more expensive. China is known for cheap products, India is known for quality products.

US has a much larger budget than China's and I don't think it is enough to beat PLA and India has no desire to beat PLA. We are happy to train with them, and improve our relations with China.
India and China acknowledge and realize that war is not the way to prosperity.

Frankly, I suggest India increase her millitary budget to a reasonable level, like 100 billion dollars, how do you think?
This is a recipe for disaster for the whole region. In any case India doesn't need to nor has the means to.

Next Thread Please. :wink:
 

houde10000

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I don't what you talking about!!

in india we have a saying that Goes like this" there is no use reading the vedas to a Bull in a mad rage" i think that you fit that catagory
the British Indian Empier was a power in its onw right so under standing international law all the Borders drawn by the BIE shall pass to successor states and dependencies of the Fomer BIE and this is equally binding on all the signator of the Shimala Conference Viz Viz
Qin China (China) BIE (India) and the Prestdom of Tibet (Occupied Tibet)
but the PRC Is in vilation of this basic of International laws so you have no right to crap about this matter as for AP or NEFA it also was agreed in the Shimala Conference that the territory of AP will be accede to the BIE so that is also out of the qustion and as for the Invasison part who the hell told you that it was you who backstabbed us it is an open secret that the IRP is a Proxy and Quasi Province of the PRC on the NWborders of india but be forwarned you are feeding a king cobra and it shall bite you and it wont be pretty
You'd better read this first: McMahon Line - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1) who told you Chinese government sign any treat with British to accept the McMahon Line? Tibetan government is just Chinese local government, it is very simply, it doesn't have right to sign any that treat.

2) If you believe there is a treat between China and British government to accept McMahon Line, why before 1947, British had never token that land, the land and people still under Chinese Tibetan government control?

3) You know you stole our land, it will be returned to us soon or later, just like Hongkong had to be returned to us in 1997 by British.
 
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Tibet was never your land it was always recognized as an independent country.

ttp://www.rangzen.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/map_afinley01det_md.jpg

 

houde10000

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All my number is from public media source

India is a free country, yes, but then again it has limits. You are not free to fornicate in public for eg.
I am very glad you really understand free is always limited.

And please note this forum is not INDIA and in this forum, DFI, rules are strictly enforced some of which can be arbitrarily enforced and can infringe on your perceived "freedom".

I respect your forum rule, and you have to respect my effort, discuss seriously

What is your source of the hidden budget ? or you are conjuring it up from thin air ?

I didn't make the hidden budget number, you should ask America, Japanese, British and Indian officer, they give number more higher than I chose.

any reputable source to back up your assumption ? In this time of economic downturn, do you think China will keep on increasing its budget ?

For at least continue 15 years, Chinese millitary budget increasing at double digital. Chinese economic could slow down or speed up in coming 10 years, but 6% increasing rate is the lowest predict number from world famous economist. And Chinese millitary budget only take 1.5% of Chinese GDP, there is still a big room to increase to 4.5%.

How did you come to this figure ? why not -3% ? And does Chinese budget depend upon currency fluctuation ?

I would like to see the -3%, but American won't be happy to see that, they have pushed us to increase Chinese Yuan value from 8.3 YUAN/Dollar drop to 6.7Yuan/Dollar in 3 years, And Yuan will keep increase value to 5 YUAN/Dollar in 5 years.

That's hurt Chinese export, I would like to see Yuan value drop, that can increase economic rate.
But Yuan increase value, when we buy weapon or technology from Russian, France, British... it could save us a lot.


Indian budget will be increased or decreased depending upon the requirements and the vision set out. If I am not wrong a good portion of the Indian budget goes unspent and is returned to the treasury.

My point is your ambition should match with your millitary budget

which is inferior to western made equipment, and chinese forces are much larger.

We have the largest army in the world, 2.1 millions, because we have a big land, army always has multipule purpose, not just carry on millitary duty. But we still core troop, around half million which equiped with the most advanced weapon even compare with US.


Depends upon bullet, the Tavor bullets are imported from Singapore for eg.

Sorry for the wrong information, I only sure India has to buy the bullet, not make it by herself.

Importing certain items doesn't make them cheaper or more expensive. China is known for cheap products, India is known for quality products.

Chinese products are always cheaper then competitor's, but that doesn't mean poor quality. Honestly, I have not even got a chance to try Indian product, I can not comment on your product quality. I am sure my family bought a lot of products made in China has the same quality as Japanese, Germany, American. A Chinese Idiom, 1 cent money 1 cent quality, it is only in your dream: pay less and get high quality.

US has a much larger budget than China's and I don't think it is enough to beat PLA and India has no desire to beat PLA. We are happy to train with them, and improve our relations with China.

of course, US always want to beat us, but they can not do it now, because even America can kill China, China can also cripple America.

I appreciate your altitude to China, improve our relation. But it is not enough, just keep word in mouth, we would like to see your behavior


India and China acknowledge and realize that war is not the way to prosperity.

I totally agree the war is not the way to prosperity. But sometime China just has no choice, it is almost no way for a super power rise peacefully, it never happened in human history before. If one day we have to fight, please prepare well this time, be a qualified enemy

This is a recipe for disaster for the whole region. In any case India doesn't need to nor has the means to.

depends: China only have one competitor target, US, if all around neighbor increasing their budget, then it will hide Chinese budget increasing, and give Chinese millitary expandation a good excuse, because anyway, there is no country around China can really threat China, even Russia. And Chinese economic size is 4 time bigger than India, if we spend comparable money on millitary budget, then it will obviously slow down Indian economic, finally lose the game.
 
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