India Has Scrapped Tender For 22 Attack Helicopters

[Payeng]

EADS Executive:India Has Scrapped Tender For 22 Attack Helicopters

Tuesday March 24th, 2009 / 8h56

NEW DELHI -(Dow Jones)- India has scrapped a tender estimated at up to $1 billion to buy 22 attack helicopters, the chief executive of the local unit of European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co. (EADSY) said Tuesday.
"We were informed earlier this month (by the Indian government), I think last week," Yves Guillaume told reporters on the sidelines of a news conference by Airbus, EADS's commercial plane manufacturing business.
"We have to first understand why it was canceled," Guillaume said when asked if the company would bid again if India's government issues a fresh tender.
The company's helicopter manufacturing unit, Eurocopter, had pitched the Tiger attack helicopter for the tender.

easybourse.com


I sense that it is due to the development of our LCH.

 

[vijaytripoli]

easybourse.com


I sense that it is due to the development of our LCH.

i don,t have any confidence in LCH NOT REGARDING ITS CAPABALITIES BUT THE TIME IT WILL TAKE TO GET OPERATIONAL FLIGHT CLEARENCE.
WHY WE ARE NOT GETTING ANY GOOD NEWS REGARDING OUR ARMED FORCES ( MIG-29, GORHKOV , ATTACK HELICOFTER , US BAN ON FRIGATE ENGINES, LCA NO WHERE SIGHT, HAWK SPARE PARTS PROBLEM , AND SO ON)
CHAU

 

[EnlightenedMonk]

Well, the frigate problem is solved... they've allowed GE to proceed with the engines...

The Gorshkov deal seems to be sealed at 2.9 billion USD (thats the figure I picked up from youtube videos) I know, thats highway robbery, but we're getting something that's in the water rather than one which is in dry dock...

The Indian MiG-29s seem to be unaffected until now since it seems to be a maintenance issue with the Russian MiG-29s.

LCA, they say, will come out next year... for more information ask Nitesh, our esteemed member who's following the LCA closely (to be frank with you, my personal opinion is that the LCA will not be inducted next year)

It all depends on whether you see the glass half-full or half-empty... a question of perspectives...

 

[EnlightenedMonk]

Anyways, lets stick to the Attack Helicopters on this thread... let's not get diverted from the topic...

 

[vijaytripoli]

Flank Attack IAF taking the lead in acquiring dedicated helicopters
By Prasun K. Sengupta

While both the Indian Army and the Indian Air Force (IAF) have projected their respective requirements for dedicated helicopters, it is the IAF that is taking the lead in acquiring them, albeit in very limited numbers. It has already floated a request for information (RFI) for an initial 22 units (against a projected requirement for 40), for which AgustaWestland’s AW-129 Mangusta, Bell Helicopter Textron’s AH-1Z Viper, Oboronprom’s Kamov Ka-52 Alligator and Mi-28NE, Boeing’s AH-64D Longbow Apache, and Eurocopter’s Tigre ARH are being offered. The selected model will be employed as an all-weather platform capable of flying nap-of-the-earth flight profiles and according flank protection for advancing friendly armoured formations by providing close air support. It will be required to be powered by twin engines, have an appreciable offensive payload that will include a minimum of eight medium-range anti-armour guided-missiles (with a range of 6km) and four air-to-air missiles, be equipped with an integrated defensive aids suit (comprising laser/radar warning receivers, missile approach warning system and a countermeasures dispenser system), have a two-seat configuration and a glass cockpit (compatible with night vision goggle-lighting), all-digital avionics architecture, as well as secure data links to receive data and imagery from both manned strike aircraft as well as tactical unmanned aerial vehicles.

The chosen helicopter will also be required to be operable in an NBC environment and be able to withstand hits from 12.7mm and 23mm anti-aircraft rounds. The IAF also wants to have the option of ‘mixing and matching’ various packages, which means, for instance, if the AH-64D Apache Longbow is acquired, the IAF would like to re-equip it with non-US origin defensive aids suite, communications suite and anti-armour guided-missiles, reportedly of US origin. While the Russians and Europeans are agreeable to such an arrangement, it is believed that the US Defence Department’s Defense Security Cooperation Agency is opposed to this approach, insisting that in the event of a US-made helicopter being chosen, the accompanying systems/weapons packages too ought to be of US origin. It remains to be seen if the new Obama Administration will make the same exceptions to the rule for India as it does for Israel.

http://www.forceindia.net/coverstory6.aspx

chau

 

[pyromaniac]

India scraps attack helicopter tender: official

India said Tuesday it had scrapped a tender for 22 attack helicopters as three international firms vying for the multi-million-dollar deal had been unable to meet the military's requirements.

"The request for the proposal (RFP) was cancelled last week after the three companies could not meet the qualitative requirements," Indian defence ministry spokesman Sitanshu Kar told AFP.

"A fresh RFP will be floated shortly," Kar added, without specifying when the global tender would be issued.

A ministry source said the attack helicopter tender, floated last year, was worth nearly 550 million dollars.

The three companies which were in the race for the contract were Russia's Kamov, the European Aeronautic Defence and Space (EADS) company and Italian-British group Agusta Westland, spokesman Kar said.

The source added EADS, which owns the world's largest helicopter-maker Eurocopter, was ready to bid again for the 22 high-altitude machines India needs for its troops patrolling Kashmir's mountain borders with Pakistan.

India has emerged as the biggest buyer of military products with plans to spend up to 30 billion dollars on defence purchases by 2012.

The ministry source said five companies were initially in the race for the attack helicopter deal.

"Two bowed out before the RFP was floated last year," the source told AFP.

US media reports had named the two companies which quit the race as US-based Boeing and Bell, a unit of Textron.

EADS, meanwhile, has also expressed interest in collaborating with India in producing a trainer version of an indigenous light combat aircraft (LCA) which now is under field trials.

"EADS has shown interest in the LCA trainer," India's chief military scientist M. Natarajan told reporters separately on Tuesday.

India scrapped a 600-million-dollar deal in 2007 for 197 helicopters awarded to Eurocopter after allegations of corruption in the bidding process.

Media reports said that the deal was scrapped because of the involvement of brokers.

India banned middlemen in military deals following allegations of bribery in a multi-billion-dollar artillery deal in the 1980s with Swedish firm Bofors.

That scandal led to the downfall of the government of Congress prime minister Rajiv Gandhi in 1989.

Eurocopter denied the Indian media allegations of the involvement of middlemen.

New Delhi says it will soon float a separate tender for 312 helicopters in a deal estimated to be worth more than one billion dollars.

India's million-plus army also wants to buy 285 heavy- and medium-lift helicopters to replace part of its fleet of 500 Soviet-era machines.

Also, India is expected soon to name the company from which it will buy 126 fighter jets worth 12 billion dollars.


http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jj-w6yRtXvYk8HBLtx4aQvdqCJAA

 

[rock45]

India testing

Has India test flown the two Russian offers? I was wondering if India sees buying either a risk since production levels seem low?

The Mi-28N looks deadly and assume it would come under western offers price wise but I think under ten have been built. It isn't such a new program either in my personnel opinion it's still a prototype.

 

[Auberon]

We can get all the attack choppers you want, but unless the larger issue of lack of mid-level officers and better pay and benefits to the forces are addressed, we won't have quality personnel left to fly them.

 

[Payeng]

news update

RFP cancelled as the three offers received from foreign defence companies did not meet with the parameters.

Times of India

 

[Payeng]

We can get all the attack choppers you want, but unless the larger issue of lack of mid-level officers and better pay and benefits to the forces are addressd, we won't have quality personnel left to fly them.

Yes, a pay commission review is the need of the day.

But still their are a lots who prefer a job in defense than anything. Moreover we cannot expect an equivalent salary to that of their private counterpart, no matter how much GoI increases their pay they wont say in the force, personnel quality is not solely judged by pay alone or pay alone don't judge the quality of a person.

 

[Auberon]

But still their are a lots who prefer a job in defense than anything.

Mate, serving in the Union of India's Armed Forces is an honourable priveledge, not a matter of preferential right. There is no lack of applicants for the army, but only a handful make it through. This is due to the fact that the cream of youth these days simply don't consider the Forces as a career option.

Moreover we cannot expect an equivalent salary to that of their private counterpart, no matter how much GoI increases their pay they wont say in the force

Well aviators are the highest paid mid-level officers in the army as they get flying bounty, flight instructors' pay etc., quite apart from the pay, there are a whole lot of issues involved as to why a majority of them want to leave the army, but anyway since this thread is about attack choppers, getting back to the thread -

personnel quality is not solely judged by pay alone or pay alone don't judge the quality of a person.

is where you completely misunderstood me. My point is that the Indian Army is already facing a shortage of officers and no-where is this more apparent than in the Aviation Corps. The aviation slot is considered a rather difficult one to get in the army and very few of the desirous make it to the Corps, then a lot of investment of time, money and effort goes into training them. A lot of them have quit already, and frankly, a sizeable chunk ones flying right now are doing it because the army refused to relieve them and will leave as soon as their mandatory contract runs out. I happened to talk to a Lt.Col. (then Major) who was an Instructor of Recce and Observation Flight and he said that he is so over-burdened due to the lack of requisite no. of pilots that his hands ache from all the overtime sorties he has to undertake. TBH IMHO, new choppers are the need of the hour but there is even greater need for a better plan to be put in action by the IA to both retain existing officers and address the issue of future recruitment.

 

[Yusuf]

Anyone knows what the requirement was and what was offered that the govt has now rejected?

 

[Rage]

The Gorshkov deal seems to be sealed at 2.9 billion USD (thats the figure I picked up from youtube videos) I know, thats highway robbery, but we're getting something that's in the water rather than one which is in dry dock...

EM, this Russian news source has it that negotiations to salvage the deal are on, and that Russian cost estimates for the Gorshkov have been reduced by 1 billion USD (from a reported figure of 2 billion):

http://www.vedomosti.ru/newspaper/article.shtml?2009/02/24/183038


I am skeptical however. Perhaps Invi can inform us if he sees anything in the Russian press.

This is a very rough translation:

Aircraft carrier to save $ 1 billion

Talks to salvage a contract for the supply of India's aircraft carrier «Vikramaditya» (former «Admiral Gorshkov») are close to completion

Alexei Nikolsky, Hope Ivanitsky
Vedomosti l 24.02.2009, № 32 (2302)

According to «Vedomosti» source in the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC), a solution to the problem of additional payments for finalizing the aircraft carrier «Vikramaditya» is possible in May, for which the Indian side should hold a few more rounds of price negotiations. According to him, this amount is $ 1 billion, although the Indian media reported last year a figure of $ 2 billion. A senior official of one of the national authorities involved in the negotiations with India, said that this amount is considerably less. A senior official in the Indian embassy when asked to comment on talks with Russia did not. At the end of last year, the Government of India agreed that the additional costs for the ship needed for finalizing, and authorized to conduct negotiations on the issue with Russia.


Re:By 2020,

All of the constant combat readiness will be 100% staffed with new equipment and weapons, said Chief of General Staff, Army General Nikolai Makarov. The remaining part will be staffed by 70%. According to Makarov, India is working on weapons modernization program until 2020, providing a massive purchase of new arms and military equipment.

The contract for a radical modernization «Gorshkova» for Indian Navy was signed back in 2004, and then work with the ship was estimated at $ 650 million and the customer delivery date for the aircraft carrier in 2008. However, the ongoing work at Severodvinsk «Sevmashpredpriyatii» revealed that the amount of work needed was much more and requirde additional funding and delivery of the ship was moved.

For two years now, India has not financed these activities, but they are ongoing - the readiness of the ship is now more than 50%, said the representative of «Sevmashpredpriyatiya» Michael Novozhilov. He refused to comment on amount of required payments under the contract for the company.

The sum of $ 1 billion looks much more realistic than the amount of $ 2 billion, said an expert Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, Konstantin Makiyenko. This is the most difficult contract in the history of military-technical cooperation between Russia and India from a technical point of view and both sides are interested in completing the project successfully. So the chance of arriving at a compromise on the price in a short time is very high. If the negotiations take time, then the state has plans to further support the strategically important «Sevmashpredpriyatiya» (this is the only current manufacturer of nuclear submarines in Russia). According to a source at USC, last year for the continuation of work on the «Gorshkova», the dock received credit from Vnesheconombank of 6 billion rubles. And this year working on the idea doinvestirovaniya in the capital of the company 12 billion rubles.

 

[vijaytripoli]

INDIAN government is behaving radically . i don,t know what they want now? comanche?
chau

 

[Yusuf]

No they dont want Camanche. Even the US doesnt want it. It was scrapped ages back.
However the fact is that two of the best Attack Choppers didnt participate due to lack of time. Boeing with its Apache and Bell with the Super Cobra.
The Indian Forces have set their eyes on the Apache, so the cancellation was bound to happen.

 

[Payeng]

Apache got a very good service ceiling according to wiki page.

 

[Yusuf]

The Apaches are good overall. Packs a neat punch.

 

[sayareakd]

It appears that international manufacturs dont want to sell us tech as per our GSQR..... that is sad........

 

[LETHALFORCE]

these countries are only interested in selling the product not the techonology, that's why countries like China steals it.

 

[sayareakd]

it would be better if the IA and other armed forces chose our own product then go for imported mall........ LCH and MCH should be developed and funded by our armed forces.