India China LAC & International Border Discussions

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Chandragupt Maurya

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Well the utility of AWACS in the context of India Pakistan is complicated. The distances are too small. Our Su-30 is a mini AWACS. A pair of patrolling Su-30 can build good situational awareness.

India has less number but more capable platforms.
Yes Indian AWACS are more capable than Pakistani ones don’t know about the Chinese ones though
 

Chandragupt Maurya

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IAF will face challenges dealing with China unless there is simultaneous action in the east and south of China. If China is at liberty to concentrate its resources in the West, then India has no option but to call for open support of USA.
How ? Chinese don’t have the millitary means to deter India their airforce can’t match our airforce they don’t have capable platforms in huge numbers like Mig29, Su30mki, Mirage2000 and Rafales, Airforce is going to play a pivotal role in conflict
 

utubekhiladi

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India’s Suspension Of Palm Oil Imports From Nepal Could Hit Kathmandu’s Trade Balance Next Fiscal, Suggest Data

Palm oil and soybean oil have come to Nepal’s rescue in merchandise trade, accounting for 32.3 per cent of the value of the Himalayan nation's export earnings during the first 11 months of its current fiscal year.

i would take that news seriously if true.. its not surprising that puppet is supporting the master or them aligning with china against INDIA.

what's bothering is the level of propaganda that porkies are trying to spread to the world.

"Foreign Minister Qureshi underscored that regional security situation was deteriorating and underlined that India''s belligerent posture and expansionist policies were imperilling peace in the region," read a press release from Pakistan Foreign Office.

"Apart from committing egregious violations of human rights in IOJ&K, India was seeking to change the demographic structure of the occupied territory. The Foreign Minister also briefed about the repeated violations committed by India across the LOC as well as targeted killing of the civilians. In the face of Indian provocations, Pakistan was exercising restraint," Qureshi maintained.

_______________________

:pound::pound::pound::pound:

some gems from the gutter mouth of Qureshi
- repeated violations committed by India across the LOC as well as targeted killing of the civilians :pound::pound:
- Pakistan was exercising restraint :lol: :lol: :lol:
- India''s belligerent posture and expansionist policies were imperiling peace in the region," :rotfl::rotfl:

baakchodi ki koi limit hona chahiye but then again, the Pakistan is besharam country, always ready to serve the next customer, first they served USA and now they are serving china. no wonder Qureshi is suffering from COVID-19.
 

utubekhiladi

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Good read.
nicely written.. i totally agree with whats written. our air-force have highest crash rate in the world. HAL is always ready to blame it on pilot errors. when the enemy is at the gate, the OFB guys went to strike because they are worried about their govt job status and job security. this clearly shows that they are least worried about the NATION... shame!!!! we can't expect anything better from this morons. they completely lack accountability, responsibility and management.
 

Mikesingh

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Chinese state-controlled media calls for promoting anti-India sentiments in Bhutan, Sikkim’s ‘independence’

In the wake of stand-off between Indian Army and China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) at India-China-Bhutan tri-junction, the Chinese state-controlled media called for a disintegration of Sikkim from the rest of India and promoting anti-India sentiments in Bhutan.

“Beijing should reconsider its stance over the Sikkim issue. Although China recognised India’s annexation of Sikkim in 2003, it can readjust its stance on the matter. There are those in Sikkim that cherish its history as a separate state, and they are sensitive to how the outside world views the Sikkim issue. As long as there are voices in Chinese society supporting Sikkim’s independence, the voices will spread and fuel pro-independence appeals in Sikkim,” a brazen editorial in state run Chinese newspaper Global Times said.

In a clear attempt to incite violence in Sikkim, the editorial called on Chinese citizens to “fuel” pro-independence movement in the Indian state bordering China.


So the tit for tat has started. The bat eaters know our sensitivities in the border states of Sikkim and Bhutan and will play on them full throttle. We need to pay them back with Tibet and Taiwan. Interesting times ahead.
 

tarunraju

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Latest chicom claims based on re-invented history of Qing dynasty boundaries. Fished out of chicom SM.

1593833180135.png


Chicoms are furious about Vladivostok celebrations.

"We wuz Qangz and shit."

If we don't draw the line now and spend at least a trillion dollars on weaponization over the next decade, We lose Ladakh, Himanchal, Arunanchal, and half of Uttarakhand when BJP inevitably loses to anti-incumbancy and some chutiya congi puppu takes over.
 

fire starter

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Chinese state-controlled media calls for promoting anti-India sentiments in Bhutan, Sikkim’s ‘independence’

In the wake of stand-off between Indian Army and China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) at India-China-Bhutan tri-junction, the Chinese state-controlled media called for a disintegration of Sikkim from the rest of India and promoting anti-India sentiments in Bhutan.

“Beijing should reconsider its stance over the Sikkim issue. Although China recognised India’s annexation of Sikkim in 2003, it can readjust its stance on the matter. There are those in Sikkim that cherish its history as a separate state, and they are sensitive to how the outside world views the Sikkim issue. As long as there are voices in Chinese society supporting Sikkim’s independence, the voices will spread and fuel pro-independence appeals in Sikkim,” a brazen editorial in state run Chinese newspaper Global Times said.

In a clear attempt to incite violence in Sikkim, the editorial called on Chinese citizens to “fuel” pro-independence movement in the Indian state bordering China.


So the tit for tat has started. The bat eaters know our sensitivities in the border states of Sikkim and Bhutan and will play on them full throttle. We need to pay them back with Tibet and Taiwan. Interesting times ahead.
These bat eaters day dream a lot.
 

fire starter

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Latest chicom claims based on re-invented history of Qing dynasty boundaries. Fished out of chicom SM.

View attachment 51944

Chicoms are furious about Vladivostok celebrations.

"We wuz Qangz and shit."

If we don't draw the line now and spend at least a trillion dollars on weaponization over the next decade, We lose Ladakh, Himanchal, Arunanchal, and half of Uttarakhand when BJP inevitably loses to anti-incumbancy and some chutiya congi puppu takes over.
scamgress will donate these land to their master China.

Latest chicom claims based on re-invented history of Qing dynasty boundaries. Fished out of chicom SM.

View attachment 51944

Chicoms are furious about Vladivostok celebrations.

"We wuz Qangz and shit."

If we don't draw the line now and spend at least a trillion dollars on weaponization over the next decade, We lose Ladakh, Himanchal, Arunanchal, and half of Uttarakhand when BJP inevitably loses to anti-incumbancy and some chutiya congi puppu takes over.
anti- incumbancy is the biggest threat I can't even dream of congress ruling this country. Bjp should stay in power for next 20 yrs.
 

BeEverVectorMan

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Because we are a country of a great faith in God.
faith in God should for it has given us everything we needed to work and Prosper for our family for our country for our world

And Thanks for the wonderful life we are able to see, touch, smell, eat & talk

My intention was to be steps taken for becoming self reliant and not to be at someone else mercy even if we have money to buy

We were denied many things at past, still our subsequent PMs didn't made an iron mind effort to be 90% self reliant in any given field
Reasons are many
 

utubekhiladi

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Hong Kong police arrest 24-year-old man on London-bound flight as China vows 'retaliation' for UK offer of citizenship

China promised Thursday to take countermeasures against Britain if it presses ahead with plans to extend citizenship rights to Hong Kongers after Beijing imposed a sweeping security law on the restless financial hub.

1593836110989.png


read more...

 

Coalmine

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Read it all

In the fog of war, a lot of misinformation flies. Ill-informed but self styled defence experts and politicians always push through home made theories. Some of these so called experts had perhaps never ever seen high altitude terrain in their entire life or service careers. But they must appear on TV channels to narrate true lies. This is what had happened about the scuffle that ensued between Indian and Chinese troops in Galwan valley of Eastern Ladakh on 15-16 June 2020.

Galwan in Kashmiri dialects means ‘Strong Man’ or a ‘Pehelwan’ (Wrestler). The river emanates at Aksai Chin and flows East to west for 80 km through gorges of high mountains upto 17000 feet. It joins the Shyok River in the Shyok Valley. The Galwan River valley is named after Gulam Rasool Galwan of Leh, who, as a young boy, had accompanied British expeditions in the Himalayas as a guide in the late 19th century.

In one of the expeditions in 1899, led by Lt Col. Charles Murray to the Pamir Mountains in Tajikistan, the party had lost its way due to bad weather. It was young Gulam Rasool Galwan, who found the way through this river valley. Thus, the river was named Galwan after him.

The Galwan River Valley was the flash point of the 1962 war. In its 1959 claim line China had claimed the entire valley upto Shyok River confluence of the Galwan River. The Valley became a flashpoint after China constructed a road between Xinjiang and Tibet, without India's consent. The highway is now known as G219. After building the road, the Chinese lay a claim to the area, first in 1959.

The valley was defended by a company of the Gorkha regiment of Indian Army in 1962 after China had constructed G219 through Aksai Chin. And then suddenly this Gorkha locality was surrounded by PLA on 6 July 1962 . The brave Gorkha troops remained cut off for three months. On 4 October 1962, a Company of 5 JAT was sent to reinforce Gorkha company by the Indian Army. PLA fired on this company and killed 36 men of the JAT coy. This was the starting point of the 1962 war.

Ever since 1962 , the Galwan valley has been under occupation of China. Protective Patrol - 14 is the only point in the mouth of Galwan valley that India controls, it is on theLine of Actual Control (LAC). The significance of this PP-14 is that it screens Chinese peep into the Shyok River confluence with the Galwan River. India has recently built a bridge over this confluence. Besides, a Link Road to PP-14 is being constructed from this bridge on the DSDBO Road, which is probably the bone of contention. See the Satellite images below.

It must be noted that LAC/border with China is not marked. The Galwan valley had been on the Eastern side of LAC, which is under Chinese control, and this has been the case for the last 58 years. Galwan valley was lost during the Prime Ministership of Pandit Jawahar Lal Nehru, and it has been status quo since then.

Therefore, if Prime Minister Narender Modi says that China has not entered our side of LAC, he is right. Those who make noise that he has surrendered to China, have no idea of history and also the ground situation. Most of them forget what Nehru had said of Aksai Chin, to remind these forgetful minds, it is reiterated that he had surrendered it by saying: “Not a blade of grass grows there.” As of dste India has not surrendered its claim either on Aksai Chin or Galwan valley. It has only said the obvious reality that LAC since 1962 is well under Indian Control, and it includes PP-14.

Anyway, let me reiterate the significance of Galwan valley, as I have brought out earlier that India had constructed a road to DBO from Shyok and Darbuk. It is 255 km long, and it has strategic importance of logistics support and also switching of forces to DBO. The point of issue is not this but the Link Road being built to PP-14. This is giving a headache to China. Chinese think that India could launch an offensive towards Aksai Chin using Galwan Valley. PP-14 obstructs their direct view. Even China has built a road from Aksai Chin to this valley. Unconfirmed reports say China was building a dam over this river to flood the area in times of crisis.

The present crisis of 15 June 2020 was due to Chinese attempt to come up to PP-14. In fact they had created a tented camp below it around 10-12 June 2020. This camp was forcibly removed by India on 12/13 June 2020. Probably, Some fatalities were suffered by PLA in this action. This perhaps had enraged the Chinese and again by 14 June 2020, they set up a fresh tented camp in 14 June 2020. This was detected by India on 15 June 2020 and it led to a deadly scuffle. Tell tale marks of the true incident have now begun to appear in many accounts and they have opened up a Pandora’s box of many lies. One has to just join the dots to visualise a true picture.

At the risk of repetition, it is a known fact that the bone of contention in the Galwan River valley and not the Darbuk - Shuyok - Dolat Beg OLDI (DSDB) Road and a bridge over the River Shyok and River Galwan confluence. To be frank, it was the 12 14 km link from this Bridge to Protective Patrol Point 14 (PP14) . This point is at the LAC and has been under Indian Control since 1962, and like 1962, it might become the flash point of another war if China does not desist from its aggression. Perhaps, it does not realise that millions of cubic acre feet of water had flown through the Galwan River over the last 58 years. The year 2020 is not the year 1962.

The significance of this Link Road is that it is a pincer aimed at the Galwan valley which could further be linked to a Chinese Road going to China’s Western Highway (G219) passing through Aksai Chin. The more important tactical advantage of PP 14 is that it screens Chinese overview of Shyok river and DSDBO Road. This was the advantage China wanted to deny to India. From the left edge of the bridge see a black streak of road going North. This is the link to PP 14. China had pitched a tented camp just a few hundreds meters from PP14.

On 6 June 2020 , an agreement was reached between the Chinese and Indian commanders (Major General Liyu Lin Commander of South Xinjiang Theatre of China and Lt Gen Harinder Singh of 14 Corps of India) to appropriately withdraw from present locations. India was to fall back 1.5 km Westward and China by 2.5 km Eastward. The disengagement was to be completed by 15 June 2020.

Indian troops before pulling out wanted to ensure that Chinese too had pulled out. Information available from various accounts suggests that a patrol of 10 men under a Major from 4 Mahar/16 Bihar was sent to ascertain this fact. They found the tent and burnt it, as they were returning they were surrounded and captured because Chinese were fully armed.

As soon as CO 16 Bihar, Col Santosh Babu learnt this, he rushed to the spot with 30 men to negotiate this. It is learnt that Chinese were on a higher ground and Indian patrol party was slowly climbing. We must know that at 15,000 feet and so, the foot movement is very sluggish and slow. One can not rush and climb. One loses breath, also the track was so narrow that one could only move in a single file — one man behind the other. This is why the road to PP-14was constructed. The news is that the job has been done.

As the Col Santosh ‘s party was some 60-100 meters from Chinese tent , they shouted at him to come alone if he wanted to negotiate about the patrol. . Col Santosh agreed and moved up with two Men. It may be noted that CO and his two men were unarmed, as is the norm in all such flag meetings. After reaching they had a heated exchange for 4-5 minutes but Chinese gave in and agreed to withdraw. As soon as the CO and his men turned, Chinese attacked him with nailed Clubs and all three fell badly wounded.

Seeing this rest of the CO party radioed it to the base and charged towards the Chinese. A hand to hand fight began. Indians had bayonets charged to rifles as an answer to Chinese nailed Clubs and Iron rods. It may be noted that Indians are well trained in close combat and bayonet fighting.

In the meanwhile, Chinese reinforcements of 400 men joined but so did 200 men from 16 Bihar and adjoining units. Thus it became a joint operation of mixed troops also from Arty, Mahar and Punjab Regiments. Accounts now filtering out are that 16 Bihar men and other Indian troops had gone berserk. The Ghatak platoons (Commandos) of other battalions had joined in. Chinese were running a halter smelter. The troops were 16 Bihar, 3 Punjab, 4 Mahar, 3 Med Regt and 181 Field Regt. It was a joint operation.

A Deccan Chronicle report of June 19, 2020 gives out a survivor participant’s account to say that a minimum of 18 PLA soldiers' necks were snapped —— they could be seen with their necks dangling from their bodies.

Another report from a JCO, as an eye witness of Arty, who came with the mortal remains of another Arty JCO to Patiala, corroborates the ferocity of all men charging the Chinese. He gave the story of 16 Bihar men going berserk and blasting the life out of PLA soldiers. In this melee Chinese Bulldozer caused a landslide and with it many PLA Soldiers went hundreds of feet into the icy Cold River Galwan and probably died.

Upon talking to OC Rear of 16 Bihar, it turned out that Lt Col Maninder Nagpal (2ic), Capt Arjun dDeshpande (3yrs), Capt Manangma (2yrs) of 16 Bihar were the most daring and they ferociously led their troops to avenge the death of their CO. Another soldier of the Arty regiment, Sepoy Surinder Singh is stated to have killed 10 PLA Soldiers with his sword. He is an Amritdhari Sikh. He too got wounded in the head and is convalescing in Leh Hospital.

Though India declared 20 dead including Col Santosh Babu, China too suffered heavy casualties. China did not give out the number of casualties. Global Times claimed that it did not give out a number of casualties because it did not want confrontational sentiments to escalate. This is a typical lie of a Communist regime.

Some Indian estimates put the Chinese casualties at 43. This they estimate from the helicopter trips coming to collect the casualties, which India allowed . But American report from intercepts suggests that there were 35 dead, possibly a few officers including Cols and Majors. This does not include the soldiers who went down in the river when the landslide took place. Therefore some estimates say that China suffered between 128 to 150 casualties.

What about the Indian patrol of one officer and 10 men which was taken Prisoners by China on 15 June. A hush hush report in some papers like The Guardian and The Dawn of Pakistan suggested that they were released on 18 June 2020 in exchange of Chinese soldiers held by India. But it was unduly denied both by Indian Army and Chinese Foreign Ministry.

However there is an interesting twist in the tail. It is that on the said night, a patrol from 3 Medium Regiment of Indian Army, had captured a Chinese Colonel and a few men who were running away from the scene of action where 16 Bihar soldiers had gone aggressive. The release of 10 men of Indian patrol is a give and take of this Chinese Col and his men. Chinese definitely learnt a lesson so as not to mess with Indian soldiers.

Finally, a word about three treaties India had signed with China on Border Management in 1993, 1996 and 2013 which prohibits the use of firearms on the border. This is a joke. There are more casualties due to physical fights with swords, nailed bats and iron rods which both sides carry. India should free its soldiers of such restrictions.

But what about the treaty signed by Congress Party and Sonia Gandhi with Communist party of China in 2008 ? Is it not strange that some of the leaders of this party are now obliquely questioning Indian soldiers and their bravery . In fact they are supporting the Chinese narrative which is full of lies. The president of this party had dinner with Chinese envoy in July 2017 when the Doka La crisis was on. They should realise that in matters of national security, nation comes first always and every time — no matter how deeply one is befriended with foreign nationals.

Indians happily stay alive; some do their business, some sit in the Parliament and assemblies, most Chit chat peacefully on social media platforms but some do verbal aerobatics with their lungs in TV rooms. All this is possible because the soldiers play with their lives on the borders. The Galwan River episode must shake their conscience. It is the sacrifice of the soldiers which make the netas and commentators safe. A grateful nation must honour the Galwan Heroes of Night 15-16 June. Their raw courage displayed against a well prepared enemy must rule the nation's soul!

(The author was a former CO of 3 Bihar. Views expressed are the authors own, and do not reflect the editorial policy of 'Mission Victory India')

(Col Rajinder Kushwaha is an ex-NDA, commissioned into the 3 Bihar Regiment in June 1971 and was the Commanding Officer of same unit in insurgency environs in Assam in 1990-93. Has vast experience in CI Ops from North East to Punjab and J&K. A prolific writer-cum-critic on defence and security matters, he has authored the book, ‘Kashmir: A Different Perspective’. His second book on Assam was released in April 2018. Held prestigious appointments in the army including as an instructor at a premier army institute, Col GS, Col Adm of an Infantry Division and Col "Q" works at a Command HQ. He can be contacted on e-mail: [email protected])
 

Bhadra

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Two Front War in Present Context
So what was feared is materializing. Pakistan has jumped into the arena.
The basic assumption so far has been that in case of a India China war / Conflict Pakistan joining the Conflict is almost certain.

Be Taht as it may 0 Now there have to be fundamenatl Changes in the strategic Calculation :
Against Pakistan - Strategic Dissuasion by denial.
Against China - Strategic Deterrence by limited offensive.

The above strategic Shift means that India holds defenses of Western borders and LOC with its defensive formations , One of the strike corps with its full complement is good enough for limited offensive tasks. The Other two armored Divisions and independent armored brigades can be be employed to obtain sufficient dissuasion and restore adverse situations. BSF with additional battalions to beef up defenses

Two Offensive strike Corps with their complements of two Infantry Divisions each and all their support elements including Arty Divisions must be employed against China front.

Thus the overall posture and Employement of Forces should be :

1. Ladakh - Holding Corps with one division. ITBP and Ladakh Scouts and one armoured brigade plus for defenses and three divisions and two armoured brigades under MSC for offensive .
2. Central Sector - One div for offensive actions / restoration of adverse situation.
3. Sikkim - Holding Corps with three div of Defenses and one strike Corps with two divisions for offensive action.
4. Arunachal - Two holding Corps with two infantry divisions each in Defensive tasks and one Strike Corps with four divisions for offensive tasks.

This strategic move should be completed before any action is contemplated in Ladakh.
 

JBH22

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Latest chicom claims based on re-invented history of Qing dynasty boundaries. Fished out of chicom SM.

View attachment 51944

Chicoms are furious about Vladivostok celebrations.

"We wuz Qangz and shit."

If we don't draw the line now and spend at least a trillion dollars on weaponization over the next decade, We lose Ladakh, Himanchal, Arunanchal, and half of Uttarakhand when BJP inevitably loses to anti-incumbancy and some chutiya congi puppu takes over.
Very true post Modi an anti incumbency will come.
I just hope he gets one more term after that it will be difficult to bring India in the votebank politics.
Public is also more aware due to social media blitz.
 
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